32 year old IT Apprentice - What next?
Discussion
I'm looking for some guidance as I'm honestly feeling quite lost in the world!
In my 20s I worked as a restaurant manager in London as well as doing quite a bit of live music work as a side line. Altogether I was earning around £50k which I didn't think was too bad for a 25/26 year old, even if I was living in London.
Anyway, Covid struck and needless to say both of those industries were screwed. Rishi wouldn't pay any furlough on tips even though they were paid through PAYE and were consistent, and I couldn't claim any support on my music income as it was less than 50% of my income (I paid everything by the book). Essentially my furlough was more like 40-50%
I therefore decided it was time for a career change, I took a massive pay cut and went to work for Majestic Wine in customer services. I worked there for 15 months but it just wasn't a very good fit for me.
As someone who left school at 16 (thanks to my useless father who was constantly causing money concerns), I thought it might be best to take an even bigger pay cut and become an IT support Apprentice. I joined a small IT support company, based in an affluent, home counties, commuter town. At times I have questioned whether it was the right choice as there are certain areas such as networking and VPNs that I am not keen on, however I have enjoyed being the main contact for a client we carry out app development for, as well as using automation tools like Power Automate.
If you've got this far, thank you! Basically, I started on £18k (40 hour contract but 20% time off to study), which was a bit painful, but it was my choice, I had a decent amount of money saved up, and I'm living with my Mum (didn't envisage this at 32).
My apprenticeship is coming to an end and today I had a meeting with the owner. He seems very happy with my work and wants to keep my on but I was quite taken a back when he offered £25,000. I made the point that when he considers I will now be full time, it's not much of a pay rise at all, and told him I was expecting a figure around £30,000. In fairness, he did take this very well and said he would get back to me.
The more I think about it though, the more it's annoying me. There are many 7 figure properties in the town we work in, and with the proximity to London, I think it should really come under London living wage, which would now equate to £ 27,352.00 a year on a 40 hour contract.
I would really appreciate if anyone could give me any advice. Am I being unreasonable? I'd also love to hear if there are any employers in this sector that people would recommend applying to.
Many thanks in advance. James
In my 20s I worked as a restaurant manager in London as well as doing quite a bit of live music work as a side line. Altogether I was earning around £50k which I didn't think was too bad for a 25/26 year old, even if I was living in London.
Anyway, Covid struck and needless to say both of those industries were screwed. Rishi wouldn't pay any furlough on tips even though they were paid through PAYE and were consistent, and I couldn't claim any support on my music income as it was less than 50% of my income (I paid everything by the book). Essentially my furlough was more like 40-50%
I therefore decided it was time for a career change, I took a massive pay cut and went to work for Majestic Wine in customer services. I worked there for 15 months but it just wasn't a very good fit for me.
As someone who left school at 16 (thanks to my useless father who was constantly causing money concerns), I thought it might be best to take an even bigger pay cut and become an IT support Apprentice. I joined a small IT support company, based in an affluent, home counties, commuter town. At times I have questioned whether it was the right choice as there are certain areas such as networking and VPNs that I am not keen on, however I have enjoyed being the main contact for a client we carry out app development for, as well as using automation tools like Power Automate.
If you've got this far, thank you! Basically, I started on £18k (40 hour contract but 20% time off to study), which was a bit painful, but it was my choice, I had a decent amount of money saved up, and I'm living with my Mum (didn't envisage this at 32).
My apprenticeship is coming to an end and today I had a meeting with the owner. He seems very happy with my work and wants to keep my on but I was quite taken a back when he offered £25,000. I made the point that when he considers I will now be full time, it's not much of a pay rise at all, and told him I was expecting a figure around £30,000. In fairness, he did take this very well and said he would get back to me.
The more I think about it though, the more it's annoying me. There are many 7 figure properties in the town we work in, and with the proximity to London, I think it should really come under London living wage, which would now equate to £ 27,352.00 a year on a 40 hour contract.
I would really appreciate if anyone could give me any advice. Am I being unreasonable? I'd also love to hear if there are any employers in this sector that people would recommend applying to.
Many thanks in advance. James
You are not being unreasonable, £25k seems much too low. I am a mentor on my workplace's design & draughtsperson apprenticeship scheme, appreciate I'm in a different sector (engineering) however we are also home counties based. Based on info I have to hand, our FY2022 final year apprentice pay rate (i.e. not fully qualified yet, apprenticeship still in progress) was £28-29k/yr.
After they complete their apprenticeships we typically take on our ex-apprentices as assistant engineers for a year or so while they are still developing into the role of a 'full' engineer, the rate for that role is roughly £30k/yr which is what one of my lads was on in FY2023.
Hopefully someone with an IT background can confirm what a reasonable figure would be, but £25k/yr does seem low for even a still-developmental post apprenticeship role.
After they complete their apprenticeships we typically take on our ex-apprentices as assistant engineers for a year or so while they are still developing into the role of a 'full' engineer, the rate for that role is roughly £30k/yr which is what one of my lads was on in FY2023.
Hopefully someone with an IT background can confirm what a reasonable figure would be, but £25k/yr does seem low for even a still-developmental post apprenticeship role.
I would treat it more like a negotiation rather than thinking about what’s fair or what they should morally do.
If you have worked for them for years, are well trusted by clients and now qualified and full time then it’s reasonable to expect more.
It’s equally valid and reasonable for them to say no. It’s just business, nobody owes you anything.
I would say to them what you want and need. If you can’t get to where you want to be then begrudgingly accept their best offer and start looking for a new job that pays more
If you have worked for them for years, are well trusted by clients and now qualified and full time then it’s reasonable to expect more.
It’s equally valid and reasonable for them to say no. It’s just business, nobody owes you anything.
I would say to them what you want and need. If you can’t get to where you want to be then begrudgingly accept their best offer and start looking for a new job that pays more
I cant speak to IT support specifically as I never acted in that role per se but I've run dev ops teams in a big company.
It's really good to see that you know what you do and don't like and are questioning your value. I didn't chase what I wanted so far in my career.
What's struck me is you should have a think about where you are or where you want to go in your IT career. I dont know if you have realised or found out but if you go into a different part of IT you can earn waaaaayyyy more money and you don't have to deal with odd hours etc. Not having a degree (I assume) means it's harder to get your foot in the door sometimes but... my gf was in IT support and through opportunities and working hard ended up in risk and crisis management at a decent financial service place and her basic alone is in 6 figures. And she doesn't have a degree. She's not front line in that area.
So I guess I'm taking a bit of a wider view and I think that sort of thinking and if... you got into a different areas in 5 to 10 years, 5 grand difference won't mean a lot to you.
I hope that helps and as per above seeing more of your skillset and what your interests in the field are could help folks to advise you more
you're thinking about what's going on and so many folks meander along like I did and it doesn't always go right.
It's really good to see that you know what you do and don't like and are questioning your value. I didn't chase what I wanted so far in my career.
What's struck me is you should have a think about where you are or where you want to go in your IT career. I dont know if you have realised or found out but if you go into a different part of IT you can earn waaaaayyyy more money and you don't have to deal with odd hours etc. Not having a degree (I assume) means it's harder to get your foot in the door sometimes but... my gf was in IT support and through opportunities and working hard ended up in risk and crisis management at a decent financial service place and her basic alone is in 6 figures. And she doesn't have a degree. She's not front line in that area.
So I guess I'm taking a bit of a wider view and I think that sort of thinking and if... you got into a different areas in 5 to 10 years, 5 grand difference won't mean a lot to you.
I hope that helps and as per above seeing more of your skillset and what your interests in the field are could help folks to advise you more
you're thinking about what's going on and so many folks meander along like I did and it doesn't always go right.muscatdxb said:
I would say to them what you want and need. If you can’t get to where you want to be then begrudgingly accept their best offer and start looking for a new job that pays more
Pretty much this. If they give you a final offer which is under what you're expecting then say thank you and immediately start looking for a new job. When you find something which pays what you want and you put in your notice to leave they'll more than likely try to match it if they really want to keep you. Then you can try and negotiate even more if you wish, take what they offer or leave and go to the new company.fiatpower said:
muscatdxb said:
I would say to them what you want and need. If you can’t get to where you want to be then begrudgingly accept their best offer and start looking for a new job that pays more
Pretty much this. If they give you a final offer which is under what you're expecting then say thank you and immediately start looking for a new job. When you find something which pays what you want and you put in your notice to leave they'll more than likely try to match it if they really want to keep you. Then you can try and negotiate even more if you wish, take what they offer or leave and go to the new company.What you haven't clearly specified is what your exact technical skillset is and how much experience you have. Are your marketable to another employer yet? Back when I was a trainee everyone wanted to see the golden two years of practical experience under your belt in a first technical role. Not sure if this is still a general rule.
For comparison, I'm a long-term freelancer for a blue chip co, we have a couple of IT apprentices coming to the end of their scheme in July. Both have just been offered permie jobs on £32k pa plus a very good benefits package (car/pension/healthcare), in the Home Counties.
Thank you for all your replies. I really appreciate the time you've all taken to respond, and I feel a lot more optimistic!
The owner did take it well when I told him I expected a more, and I can't help but think he is just a bit behind with wage inflation in the last few years. I'm interested to hear what figure he comes back with.
It's a Level 3 apprenticeship so only lasts 12-16 months, and I appreciate there is a huge amount of different avenues in IT. Being a very small company (6 full time staff), I have carried out a wide variety of tasks and one of my concerns is that there has been so many different areas to look at that I may have missed some/had limited exposure to some core competencies in the role. Having said that, I'm confident I have carried out tasks that are beyond the remit of my role.
These are the main areas I have experience in:
- Most of our clients are Microsoft based, so I have quite a lot of exposure to a lot of the Microsoft range, including Entra, OneDrive, Sharepoint and deployments through Intune.
- I Have experience with Backups, especially Acronis.
- Adjusting websites, particularly Wix but also Wordpress.
- Using SQL databases.
- Setting up Power Automate flows for clients.
- Resetting PCs.
- Windows 11 upgrades.
- Being the contact between developers and client for app development.
Thanks again everyone.
The owner did take it well when I told him I expected a more, and I can't help but think he is just a bit behind with wage inflation in the last few years. I'm interested to hear what figure he comes back with.
It's a Level 3 apprenticeship so only lasts 12-16 months, and I appreciate there is a huge amount of different avenues in IT. Being a very small company (6 full time staff), I have carried out a wide variety of tasks and one of my concerns is that there has been so many different areas to look at that I may have missed some/had limited exposure to some core competencies in the role. Having said that, I'm confident I have carried out tasks that are beyond the remit of my role.
These are the main areas I have experience in:
- Most of our clients are Microsoft based, so I have quite a lot of exposure to a lot of the Microsoft range, including Entra, OneDrive, Sharepoint and deployments through Intune.
- I Have experience with Backups, especially Acronis.
- Adjusting websites, particularly Wix but also Wordpress.
- Using SQL databases.
- Setting up Power Automate flows for clients.
- Resetting PCs.
- Windows 11 upgrades.
- Being the contact between developers and client for app development.
Thanks again everyone.
Well, that's a farily standard grab-bag of small business IT support, and nothing wrong with that. Many people start in something similar.
The real question is - what do you want to do? Generalism can be fun, but you'll hit a ceiling at roughly 3rd line support, maybe general-purpose IT "manager" in a smallish org.
Have a think back over the past couple of years. WHat did you enjoy, what do you feel you had an aptitude for, what has a good career path? Also - get used to picking a technology every few years, nothing stays static
And while small companies are fine in themselves, can be good fun, and get you expodure to a wider range of technology (to a shallower depth), in my opinion the career path and rewards that go with are to be found a) at larger organisations.and b) by specailising.
The real question is - what do you want to do? Generalism can be fun, but you'll hit a ceiling at roughly 3rd line support, maybe general-purpose IT "manager" in a smallish org.
Have a think back over the past couple of years. WHat did you enjoy, what do you feel you had an aptitude for, what has a good career path? Also - get used to picking a technology every few years, nothing stays static
And while small companies are fine in themselves, can be good fun, and get you expodure to a wider range of technology (to a shallower depth), in my opinion the career path and rewards that go with are to be found a) at larger organisations.and b) by specailising.
NewportPag said:
Thank you for all your replies. I really appreciate the time you've all taken to respond, and I feel a lot more optimistic!
The owner did take it well when I told him I expected a more, and I can't help but think he is just a bit behind with wage inflation in the last few years. I'm interested to hear what figure he comes back with.
It's a Level 3 apprenticeship so only lasts 12-16 months, and I appreciate there is a huge amount of different avenues in IT. Being a very small company (6 full time staff), I have carried out a wide variety of tasks and one of my concerns is that there has been so many different areas to look at that I may have missed some/had limited exposure to some core competencies in the role. Having said that, I'm confident I have carried out tasks that are beyond the remit of my role.
These are the main areas I have experience in:
- Most of our clients are Microsoft based, so I have quite a lot of exposure to a lot of the Microsoft range, including Entra, OneDrive, Sharepoint and deployments through Intune.
- I Have experience with Backups, especially Acronis.
- Adjusting websites, particularly Wix but also Wordpress.
- Using SQL databases.
- Setting up Power Automate flows for clients.
- Resetting PCs.
- Windows 11 upgrades.
- Being the contact between developers and client for app development.
Thanks again everyone.
The wage sounds low but it’s not exactly a solid skill set, I reckon most people could do that with minimal training.The owner did take it well when I told him I expected a more, and I can't help but think he is just a bit behind with wage inflation in the last few years. I'm interested to hear what figure he comes back with.
It's a Level 3 apprenticeship so only lasts 12-16 months, and I appreciate there is a huge amount of different avenues in IT. Being a very small company (6 full time staff), I have carried out a wide variety of tasks and one of my concerns is that there has been so many different areas to look at that I may have missed some/had limited exposure to some core competencies in the role. Having said that, I'm confident I have carried out tasks that are beyond the remit of my role.
These are the main areas I have experience in:
- Most of our clients are Microsoft based, so I have quite a lot of exposure to a lot of the Microsoft range, including Entra, OneDrive, Sharepoint and deployments through Intune.
- I Have experience with Backups, especially Acronis.
- Adjusting websites, particularly Wix but also Wordpress.
- Using SQL databases.
- Setting up Power Automate flows for clients.
- Resetting PCs.
- Windows 11 upgrades.
- Being the contact between developers and client for app development.
Thanks again everyone.
Leptons said:
The wage sounds low but it’s not exactly a solid skill set, I reckon most people could do that with minimal training.
Yeah, and I'm sure you were running Amazon in your first couple of years.More politely put - it's a starting point. You need to decide what the next move is. Development? Design? Implementation? Service management? etc., etc.
"IT" is a huge field, and IMO a broad generalist will hit a ceiling after a few years.
Many years ago when I was in a similar position I started doing Microsoft exams which gave my CV a boost. I was then able to start contracting doing basic roles and work my way up from there. I found contracting an easy way to get better roles every time and the pay was good.
The other advantage of contracting was the contacts you made which helped find work.
The other advantage of contracting was the contacts you made which helped find work.
NewportPag said:
Thank you for all your replies. I really appreciate the time you've all taken to respond, and I feel a lot more optimistic!
The owner did take it well when I told him I expected a more, and I can't help but think he is just a bit behind with wage inflation in the last few years. I'm interested to hear what figure he comes back with.
It's a Level 3 apprenticeship so only lasts 12-16 months, and I appreciate there is a huge amount of different avenues in IT. Being a very small company (6 full time staff), I have carried out a wide variety of tasks and one of my concerns is that there has been so many different areas to look at that I may have missed some/had limited exposure to some core competencies in the role. Having said that, I'm confident I have carried out tasks that are beyond the remit of my role.
These are the main areas I have experience in:
- Most of our clients are Microsoft based, so I have quite a lot of exposure to a lot of the Microsoft range, including Entra, OneDrive, Sharepoint and deployments through Intune.
- I Have experience with Backups, especially Acronis.
- Adjusting websites, particularly Wix but also Wordpress.
- Using SQL databases.
- Setting up Power Automate flows for clients.
- Resetting PCs.
- Windows 11 upgrades.
- Being the contact between developers and client for app development.
Thanks again everyone.
Not sure if I am reading this right. Are you saying you changed career and now have 12-16 months of IT experience backed up with a day release? The owner did take it well when I told him I expected a more, and I can't help but think he is just a bit behind with wage inflation in the last few years. I'm interested to hear what figure he comes back with.
It's a Level 3 apprenticeship so only lasts 12-16 months, and I appreciate there is a huge amount of different avenues in IT. Being a very small company (6 full time staff), I have carried out a wide variety of tasks and one of my concerns is that there has been so many different areas to look at that I may have missed some/had limited exposure to some core competencies in the role. Having said that, I'm confident I have carried out tasks that are beyond the remit of my role.
These are the main areas I have experience in:
- Most of our clients are Microsoft based, so I have quite a lot of exposure to a lot of the Microsoft range, including Entra, OneDrive, Sharepoint and deployments through Intune.
- I Have experience with Backups, especially Acronis.
- Adjusting websites, particularly Wix but also Wordpress.
- Using SQL databases.
- Setting up Power Automate flows for clients.
- Resetting PCs.
- Windows 11 upgrades.
- Being the contact between developers and client for app development.
Thanks again everyone.
If that is correct, then I am guessing you are a level 1 tech and the salary offer is about right for outside London.
Again, thanks everyone, I do think it is probably better to try and become more specialised in a specific area.
I also think a larger company would probably be a better fit and also allow me to focus more on certain areas.
I completely understand that it's not the most intricate list of experience I've carried and that I've only been in the industry for just over a year. I'm sure my previous work experience counts for something tbough even if it does come from a completely different sector.
Also, the owner said he was very happy with my work and really wanted to keep me. However, in 2024, £25k is only just over £1k above minimum wage for a 40 hour week, and like I said, it's a very affluent area, so I don't think I'm being unreasonable.
I also think a larger company would probably be a better fit and also allow me to focus more on certain areas.
I completely understand that it's not the most intricate list of experience I've carried and that I've only been in the industry for just over a year. I'm sure my previous work experience counts for something tbough even if it does come from a completely different sector.
Also, the owner said he was very happy with my work and really wanted to keep me. However, in 2024, £25k is only just over £1k above minimum wage for a 40 hour week, and like I said, it's a very affluent area, so I don't think I'm being unreasonable.
We start our grads on £30k and it increases over 3 years depending upon performance to £40 minimum . We are not a bank or financial institution but a mid cap company with 85 IT employees
I think you can get more than £25k but it depends where you are in the country and on getting in with a firm that wants you to grow and develop at the same rate they are if not faster
I think you can get more than £25k but it depends where you are in the country and on getting in with a firm that wants you to grow and develop at the same rate they are if not faster
The value of your salary isn't about you all the time, how much is this company you've been working for making?
IT Support business in a commuter town shouts to me of someone providing support to other companies with no IT function so it's not going to be making much profit to me.
This also means you probably aren't doing the same velocity of work as someone working in an IT Function for an organisation!
You could probably earn as much as you are being offered working within service desk within a corporate organisation and have the opportunity to work upwards.
Beware though you'll need more than just technical skills if you want to do that. I took an IT support role up as my first job (20 odd years ago), worked into server/network support then into support management, then took a move into IT Architecture, I've managed to get there but it's been a long time doing so and needed lots of self development, knock backs and blagging in interviews!
IT Support business in a commuter town shouts to me of someone providing support to other companies with no IT function so it's not going to be making much profit to me.
This also means you probably aren't doing the same velocity of work as someone working in an IT Function for an organisation!
You could probably earn as much as you are being offered working within service desk within a corporate organisation and have the opportunity to work upwards.
Beware though you'll need more than just technical skills if you want to do that. I took an IT support role up as my first job (20 odd years ago), worked into server/network support then into support management, then took a move into IT Architecture, I've managed to get there but it's been a long time doing so and needed lots of self development, knock backs and blagging in interviews!
NewportPag said:
Thank you for all your replies. I really appreciate the time you've all taken to respond, and I feel a lot more optimistic!
The owner did take it well when I told him I expected a more, and I can't help but think he is just a bit behind with wage inflation in the last few years. I'm interested to hear what figure he comes back with.
It's a Level 3 apprenticeship so only lasts 12-16 months, and I appreciate there is a huge amount of different avenues in IT. Being a very small company (6 full time staff), I have carried out a wide variety of tasks and one of my concerns is that there has been so many different areas to look at that I may have missed some/had limited exposure to some core competencies in the role. Having said that, I'm confident I have carried out tasks that are beyond the remit of my role.
These are the main areas I have experience in:
- Most of our clients are Microsoft based, so I have quite a lot of exposure to a lot of the Microsoft range, including Entra, OneDrive, Sharepoint and deployments through Intune.
- I Have experience with Backups, especially Acronis.
- Adjusting websites, particularly Wix but also Wordpress.
- Using SQL databases.
- Setting up Power Automate flows for clients.
- Resetting PCs.
- Windows 11 upgrades.
- Being the contact between developers and client for app development.
Thanks again everyone.
IMHO, if you want to move in to a larger organisation, you'll be better off focusing on an area of those experiences that you either enjoy the most, or feel you are best at.The owner did take it well when I told him I expected a more, and I can't help but think he is just a bit behind with wage inflation in the last few years. I'm interested to hear what figure he comes back with.
It's a Level 3 apprenticeship so only lasts 12-16 months, and I appreciate there is a huge amount of different avenues in IT. Being a very small company (6 full time staff), I have carried out a wide variety of tasks and one of my concerns is that there has been so many different areas to look at that I may have missed some/had limited exposure to some core competencies in the role. Having said that, I'm confident I have carried out tasks that are beyond the remit of my role.
These are the main areas I have experience in:
- Most of our clients are Microsoft based, so I have quite a lot of exposure to a lot of the Microsoft range, including Entra, OneDrive, Sharepoint and deployments through Intune.
- I Have experience with Backups, especially Acronis.
- Adjusting websites, particularly Wix but also Wordpress.
- Using SQL databases.
- Setting up Power Automate flows for clients.
- Resetting PCs.
- Windows 11 upgrades.
- Being the contact between developers and client for app development.
Thanks again everyone.
Small businesses are great as you can get a feel for lots of different areas and you're trusted to be "the IT guy" that just sorts everything out. In a large organisation, there likely isn't going to be a role for someone who does a bit of Acronis backups, resets some PCs, clicks Next on the Windows 11 upgrade wizard and tinkers with the website. There will be a person / people responsible for the infrastructure, for the backup solution, for deployments and so on.
Personally, I'd say there are 2 in that list which would be a worthwhile career pursuit. SQL, and 'contact between developers and clients'
Are you good at SQL, do you 'get it', or do you just know SELECT * and ORDER BY? Proper enterprise level database work is a mixture of art and science, if you're good at it you can be very valuable. It may well be worth pursuing this perhaps via a qualification or getting more involved with it in your current role so that you have some demonstrable experience / achievements.
Secondly, the contact between developers and clients. If you are one of the rare people that understand the technical side but are also capable of interacting with human beings, again, you can be very valuable. Given your previous 'front of house' type experience, one can only assume you're fairly personable and presentable. Combining that with strong technical understanding (nobody likes a salesperson bulls
tting them, it's obvious when they don't truly understand) is a fairly rare mix, so again, valuable.Just as a thought really. I'm assuming from the name you're around Newport Pagnell. Plenty of F1 teams within commutable range, have a look on Motorsport Jobs.
In terms of your salary, hopefully your boss will come back and be happy with £30k. At this point I'd also suggest it is worth you establishing that obviously you want to be paid more in the future, you want your role to grow, and get him to engage with and define some ways that you can grow, i.e. what responsibilities you can take on, what targets he'd like you to achieve to then merit more money.
This is much easier for both sides than once a year you go "I think I've done well, I want more money" when the boss' perspective may well be, you've been doing the same job and were happy on 30k, so why pay you more? Defining what you can proactively do to earn more works better for both of you.
shtu said:
Leptons said:
The wage sounds low but it’s not exactly a solid skill set, I reckon most people could do that with minimal training.
Yeah, and I'm sure you were running Amazon in your first couple of years.More politely put - it's a starting point. You need to decide what the next move is. Development? Design? Implementation? Service management? etc., etc.
"IT" is a huge field, and IMO a broad generalist will hit a ceiling after a few years.
I’m sure he’ll have no problem moving up the ranks in time - all the best OP!
One other thing to perhaps consider.
This company took a chance on you, they will have contributed to your course and probably sacrificed other team members time to train you on the job. You are probably just starting to make the company money. If you are happy there, it might be worth considering accepting the salary for now. But asking to come back and discuss it again when you have taken on more responsibility or have learned new skills that are of value to the company.
This company took a chance on you, they will have contributed to your course and probably sacrificed other team members time to train you on the job. You are probably just starting to make the company money. If you are happy there, it might be worth considering accepting the salary for now. But asking to come back and discuss it again when you have taken on more responsibility or have learned new skills that are of value to the company.
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