Disciplinary Investigations
Discussion
Hey there! I'm seeking some advice or employment legal advice.
I recently received a sudden notification to attend a meeting due to allegations of fraudulent expenses claims and claims that are out of policy.
I work remotely and travel extensively for my role. During the meeting, the allegations were related to hotels for personal use and public transportation.
I clarified that I have remote status and approval to expense travel and hotels when I visit the office (which is 300 miles away). I also booked hotels for my direct team and provided bank statements and invoices to support these expenses. However, the investigators classified them as “personal,” and I had to obtain written statements from my team to confirm they were for business purposes.
I later found out that the policy was silently updated late last year with no communication to employees. My manager confirmed that there was no communication about the updated policies.
There were a couple of expenses where I lost the invoice and had to use a bank statement. Additionally, I only needed to claim 25% of the value of one invoice, but it kept getting rejected because it didn’t match the value. I edited the invoice to say the total payment was £x, claiming £x. Due to this, they are pursuing fraudulent invoices for personal gain.
I have provided all bank statements and original statements, but it's been 4 weeks, and I still haven’t heard anything back about what happens next. The anxiety is overwhelming, and my work performance has suffered as a result.
I recently received a sudden notification to attend a meeting due to allegations of fraudulent expenses claims and claims that are out of policy.
I work remotely and travel extensively for my role. During the meeting, the allegations were related to hotels for personal use and public transportation.
I clarified that I have remote status and approval to expense travel and hotels when I visit the office (which is 300 miles away). I also booked hotels for my direct team and provided bank statements and invoices to support these expenses. However, the investigators classified them as “personal,” and I had to obtain written statements from my team to confirm they were for business purposes.
I later found out that the policy was silently updated late last year with no communication to employees. My manager confirmed that there was no communication about the updated policies.
There were a couple of expenses where I lost the invoice and had to use a bank statement. Additionally, I only needed to claim 25% of the value of one invoice, but it kept getting rejected because it didn’t match the value. I edited the invoice to say the total payment was £x, claiming £x. Due to this, they are pursuing fraudulent invoices for personal gain.
I have provided all bank statements and original statements, but it's been 4 weeks, and I still haven’t heard anything back about what happens next. The anxiety is overwhelming, and my work performance has suffered as a result.
If what you say is right, this sounds like a bit of a witch hunt? Or in the alternative a matter that should be dropped presently.
It is difficult to say without reading the policy and more information about exactly what was claimed and said. But an expense claim that identifies clearly the sum claimed and why is difficult to categorise as fraud. Does your manager not sign off on expenses?
It is difficult to say without reading the policy and more information about exactly what was claimed and said. But an expense claim that identifies clearly the sum claimed and why is difficult to categorise as fraud. Does your manager not sign off on expenses?
Manager signs off my expenses, then to auditing before paying.
The conversation started with “why are you using a personal card and not a company?”. There is no requirement for a company card and know many who use a personal card.
As my job involves meeting customers I’m rarely in an office where they can track my work badge. A chunk of hotels were rejected last year, as they believed it was duplicated. I sent back bank statements, invoices and flight details showing it was new and separate.
Previously policy for accommodation booking was “internal booking optional” when the policy was changed silently it now says “internal booking, no exceptions”.
There has been zero communication to managers and employees regarding this change.
The conversation started with “why are you using a personal card and not a company?”. There is no requirement for a company card and know many who use a personal card.
As my job involves meeting customers I’m rarely in an office where they can track my work badge. A chunk of hotels were rejected last year, as they believed it was duplicated. I sent back bank statements, invoices and flight details showing it was new and separate.
Previously policy for accommodation booking was “internal booking optional” when the policy was changed silently it now says “internal booking, no exceptions”.
There has been zero communication to managers and employees regarding this change.
Only you know whether you've fiddled anything, sounds like you haven't.
Also sounds like some bellend internally is on a power trip.
If you know you're okay, don't worry about it.
I claim millage and NEVER fiddle a single mile, never ever, when time comes, they can pour over everything as long as they like, I know they'll not find a thing.
It's gone quiet because you're in the clear and the bellend doesn't know what to do now, why not ask your line manager / HR for an update?
Also sounds like some bellend internally is on a power trip.
If you know you're okay, don't worry about it.
I claim millage and NEVER fiddle a single mile, never ever, when time comes, they can pour over everything as long as they like, I know they'll not find a thing.
It's gone quiet because you're in the clear and the bellend doesn't know what to do now, why not ask your line manager / HR for an update?
Go off on stress. State that this accusation of fraudulent claims on expenses is the cause. You will return to work when it’s over and have been cleared of any wrongdoing.
Also look for other work as it sounds like someone has it in for you.
Also sounds like a s
t company who don't send an email outlining any policy changes. It takes 10 minutes to publish and send the email.
Also look for other work as it sounds like someone has it in for you.
Also sounds like a s
t company who don't send an email outlining any policy changes. It takes 10 minutes to publish and send the email. Edited by sam.rog on Saturday 13th April 13:11
BMRed said:
Worst part, advised if I speak to anyone internally it will result in further action. Including line manager.
Reached out to the team last week and advised to wait until further notice.
I'd be asking to see the policy this prohibition is based on, and getting clarification about what sanctions would be because while it's reasonable to do an investigation it's not reasonable to cut off the person being investigated from any kind of corporate support for an open-ended period. I'd also be saying, on date X I'm going to escalate this to the HR Director or someone else appropriate in the hierarchy. Reached out to the team last week and advised to wait until further notice.
sam.rog said:
Go off on stress. State that this accusation of fraudulent claims on expenses is the cause. You will return to work when it’s over and have been cleared of any wrongdoing.
Also look for other work as it sounds like someone has it in for you.
Also sounds like a st company who don't send an email outlining any policy changes. It takes 10 minutes to publish and send the email.
Definetly this ^^^^Also look for other work as it sounds like someone has it in for you.
Also sounds like a s
t company who don't send an email outlining any policy changes. It takes 10 minutes to publish and send the email. Edited by sam.rog on Saturday 13th April 13:11
Once they are looking over expenses forensically, its usually to catch you out and get you out the door. If you are in right (and from what you have posted you are), do as Sam suggests and get signed off specifically for this.
I hate to say it, but you should consider building a case against constructive dismissal - should they force you out.
Would be worth gathering your own timeline of expenses claims matched to customer meetings etc, and include the policy change and no comms etc, so you can challenge them back on their accusations.
I would also question HR telling you not to contact people for updates without them firstly providing you with clear details of the process and timeline etcs.
It seems from what you’ve written, that your expenses are signed off by your line manager, who’s job it is to both lead you and, in the case of expenses, ensure that they are legitimate and in line with your role, your activity and company policy.
It’s they who are saying to the finance and audit team that all is in order.
If there is any doubt, the first call would usually be to the countersigning officer. If they confirm that on review, all is well, then that should be the end of the matter and ordinarily, you would be none the wiser.
If however one of two things is discovered, either the countersigning officer is incompetent and hasn’t fully understood the rules to which he is aligning his decision or he fully understands and acknowledges that in this case, there may be a case to answer, which would then involve the claimant.
A swift review should then take place to confirm the facts, usually within a few days at the most to avoid any unnecessary stress on those involved, including the line manager.
It would be normal for the line manager to be acting vigorously on behalf of their staff to come to a very swift resolution.
Good luck!
It’s they who are saying to the finance and audit team that all is in order.
If there is any doubt, the first call would usually be to the countersigning officer. If they confirm that on review, all is well, then that should be the end of the matter and ordinarily, you would be none the wiser.
If however one of two things is discovered, either the countersigning officer is incompetent and hasn’t fully understood the rules to which he is aligning his decision or he fully understands and acknowledges that in this case, there may be a case to answer, which would then involve the claimant.
A swift review should then take place to confirm the facts, usually within a few days at the most to avoid any unnecessary stress on those involved, including the line manager.
It would be normal for the line manager to be acting vigorously on behalf of their staff to come to a very swift resolution.
Good luck!
As someone has already said, if you know for a fact you haven't done anything wrong, or fiddled anything, don't worry about it. If your boss has been signing it all off, then that offers you an additional layer of protection.
If they still want to come after you because of some tiny small print that was altered, then that tells you all you need to know. They are wkers, and not someone you should waste your time working for. Just go off on the sick and look for another job, which you will no doubt easily find in this market.
Our company would never do that to any employee. A quick chat to clear up any misunderstanding would be the top and bottom of it.
When my career first started, someone told me the following things and told me never to forget them:
1) Never fiddle milage or any kind of expensive, at all, ever. Always round it down and pay for items yourself if you aren't 100% sure.
2) Never use a work device or work internet connection to browse anything that isn't strictly work related. Never send any personal emails from work equipment or accounts.
3) Never fiddle any hours or timesheets. Ever.
4) Never write anything even slightly unprofessional in emails, Teams chat, or anything else. Only write things that you would be happy to have read out in front of the MD.
I have lived by those rules for 20 years and watched other people get caught by them. It is just so easy for a business to get a 'slam dunk' on that kind of stuff if they want to shed a few staff. Never give them the opportunity.
If they still want to come after you because of some tiny small print that was altered, then that tells you all you need to know. They are w
kers, and not someone you should waste your time working for. Just go off on the sick and look for another job, which you will no doubt easily find in this market.Our company would never do that to any employee. A quick chat to clear up any misunderstanding would be the top and bottom of it.
dundarach said:
Only you know whether you've fiddled anything, sounds like you haven't.
Also sounds like some bellend internally is on a power trip.
If you know you're okay, don't worry about it.
I claim millage and NEVER fiddle a single mile, never ever, when time comes, they can pour over everything as long as they like, I know they'll not find a thing.
It's gone quiet because you're in the clear and the bellend doesn't know what to do now, why not ask your line manager / HR for an update?
This bit on bold is really important, not just for the OP but for everyone. Also sounds like some bellend internally is on a power trip.
If you know you're okay, don't worry about it.
I claim millage and NEVER fiddle a single mile, never ever, when time comes, they can pour over everything as long as they like, I know they'll not find a thing.
It's gone quiet because you're in the clear and the bellend doesn't know what to do now, why not ask your line manager / HR for an update?
When my career first started, someone told me the following things and told me never to forget them:
1) Never fiddle milage or any kind of expensive, at all, ever. Always round it down and pay for items yourself if you aren't 100% sure.
2) Never use a work device or work internet connection to browse anything that isn't strictly work related. Never send any personal emails from work equipment or accounts.
3) Never fiddle any hours or timesheets. Ever.
4) Never write anything even slightly unprofessional in emails, Teams chat, or anything else. Only write things that you would be happy to have read out in front of the MD.
I have lived by those rules for 20 years and watched other people get caught by them. It is just so easy for a business to get a 'slam dunk' on that kind of stuff if they want to shed a few staff. Never give them the opportunity.
BMRed said:
Can you be contacted to attend any hearings while signed off?
They have a duty of care to keep in contact with you. They should also get you an occupational health assessment which will determine review periods and any management recommendations.The stress is unlikely to disappear until the matter is resolved so attending a hearing whilst off would be in your interests.
Could this be cloud cover to get you out for another reason eg cost cutting or they don’t like you?
How many years have you been employed by the company? Hopefully over 2 years?
My advice would be to document everything. Get a solid timeline and diary whilst you still have full access to all company systems. This can be used for a case later on if they unfairly dismiss you.
Consider updating your CV / looking for a new job. Do you really want to work somewhere that treats its staff like this?
How many years have you been employed by the company? Hopefully over 2 years?
My advice would be to document everything. Get a solid timeline and diary whilst you still have full access to all company systems. This can be used for a case later on if they unfairly dismiss you.
Consider updating your CV / looking for a new job. Do you really want to work somewhere that treats its staff like this?
I doubt they would go after line manager, but I don’t agree with being told speaking to my manager about the issue is a disciplinary offence.
I believe it’s a way of reducing cost cutting outside of the ongoing redundancies and performance management tools.
Spending time with my dad today has been wonderful, he put things into perspective. Almost saying, no job is worth your health (I do look like crap at the moment). Is it worth it working for this company? No, the last 2 years has been hell. Starting at 5:30 and finishing at 11pm to get the team through its tough times.
I know I would benefit from moving to a small company, taking a pay reduction but not having the axe dangling around my neck.
I believe it’s a way of reducing cost cutting outside of the ongoing redundancies and performance management tools.
Spending time with my dad today has been wonderful, he put things into perspective. Almost saying, no job is worth your health (I do look like crap at the moment). Is it worth it working for this company? No, the last 2 years has been hell. Starting at 5:30 and finishing at 11pm to get the team through its tough times.
I know I would benefit from moving to a small company, taking a pay reduction but not having the axe dangling around my neck.
Edited by BMRed on Saturday 13th April 21:55
Edited by BMRed on Saturday 13th April 21:56
Hi, this sounds an awful situation.
I think you should take legal advice as to whether the delay in the investigation could give you grounds for constructive dismissal.
However, assuming you want to stay in the role then you should contact the HR team and ask for a fixed date by which the investigation will be completed.
It will not work well for the company to have changed the expense policy but not advised employees of the changes, especially if they attempt to dismiss yu based on things previously allowed, but changed in the new policy.
Try to get hold of both policies.
Document everything
Good luck
I think you should take legal advice as to whether the delay in the investigation could give you grounds for constructive dismissal.
However, assuming you want to stay in the role then you should contact the HR team and ask for a fixed date by which the investigation will be completed.
It will not work well for the company to have changed the expense policy but not advised employees of the changes, especially if they attempt to dismiss yu based on things previously allowed, but changed in the new policy.
Try to get hold of both policies.
Document everything
Good luck
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