Discussion
My wife has committed a faux pau at work having lost it with a colleague. There seems to have been a verbal confrontation (where the colleague apparently gave as good as she got),
The background is a colleague who is not friendly with the team, has a relation high up in the organisation, and pushed my wife's buttons at the wrong time.
As background my wife is going through the menopause and is struggling to sleep.
This was day 6 of only a couple of sleep a night. She snapped essentially. She can't remember what was said during the 'discussion' but has been told by a witness that she did not swear, did not physically assault the colleague, and pretty much the worst thing she said was "Nobody likes you". Not great but it is what it is.
After a meeting where my wife apologised the colleague has said she wants to take it further and file a grievance with HR.
My wife has taken time out, not least to go to the doctor and sort out HRT.
What are the next steps and what action should my wife take? Is this possibly a career ending mistake?
Grateful for any advice.
The background is a colleague who is not friendly with the team, has a relation high up in the organisation, and pushed my wife's buttons at the wrong time.
As background my wife is going through the menopause and is struggling to sleep.
This was day 6 of only a couple of sleep a night. She snapped essentially. She can't remember what was said during the 'discussion' but has been told by a witness that she did not swear, did not physically assault the colleague, and pretty much the worst thing she said was "Nobody likes you". Not great but it is what it is.
After a meeting where my wife apologised the colleague has said she wants to take it further and file a grievance with HR.
My wife has taken time out, not least to go to the doctor and sort out HRT.
What are the next steps and what action should my wife take? Is this possibly a career ending mistake?
Grateful for any advice.
simon_harris said:
this should result in nothing more than PERHAPS a first written warning, would depend on the details of the company handbook but assuming this is a first offence it should not be a career ending event.
Agree.I chaired a disciplinary hearing a few months ago for what was a very similar incident to the one the OP describes.
A lady in her 50's got angry and had an outburst at a colleague, in front of other colleagues, and the matter was reported to HR as she said some pretty unkind/rude things which made her team feel uncomfortable.
Her mitigating factors was that she was not feeling mentally well, was feeling stressed, depressed, and menopausal.
I issued her with a written warning, and asked her to seek help for her issues via the company medical support system.
If the other party “gave as good as she got,” then if I was Mrs.OP, I would be looking at HR to be more of a mediator to try and resolve any underlying problems. I would be disappointed if it was more than a verbal warning. OP is your wife in a union? If so, it would be advisable to get her union rep to attend any HR meeting, if not, it may be worth getting a “neutral” friend to attend the meeting to take notes and ensure your wife doesn’t get steamrolled into accepting a resolution that she doesn’t want.
surveyor said:
What are the next steps and what action should my wife take? Is this possibly a career ending mistake?
Grateful for any advice.
I would have thought highly unlikely unless it falls under the Company's definition of "Gross misconduct". Probably a written warning and no further action unless he tries to contest it.Grateful for any advice.
Mr.Chips said:
If the other party “gave as good as she got,” then if I was Mrs.OP, I would be looking at HR to be more of a mediator to try and resolve any underlying problems. I would be disappointed if it was more than a verbal warning. OP is your wife in a union? If so, it would be advisable to get her union rep to attend any HR meeting, if not, it may be worth getting a “neutral” friend to attend the meeting to take notes and ensure your wife doesn’t get steamrolled into accepting a resolution that she doesn’t want.
Thanks all.She has been advised to join her union ASAP!.. Not sure how that will go..
surveyor said:
Thanks all.
She has been advised to join her union ASAP!.. Not sure how that will go..
Unlikely a union can help if they join after the incident, defo check with the rep first. Might be able to give general advice, but specifics at this point are often ruled out for obvious "no one would join until they needed to" type reasons, as opposed to because they wanted to.She has been advised to join her union ASAP!.. Not sure how that will go..
macron said:
surveyor said:
Thanks all.
She has been advised to join her union ASAP!.. Not sure how that will go..
Unlikely a union can help if they join after the incident, defo check with the rep first. Might be able to give general advice, but specifics at this point are often ruled out for obvious "no one would join until they needed to" type reasons, as opposed to because they wanted to.She has been advised to join her union ASAP!.. Not sure how that will go..
If this other party is a bit of an arse is there not any mileage in some form of counter grievance with witness statements regarding prior behaviour? People rarely snap unless they have been provoked and sometimes the provocation can have an element of bullying or psychological abuse to it.
I chair formal HR meetings at work alongside the usual stuff. We have two stages to the process; a grievance investigation and possibly a disciplinary following if the disciplinary policy was found to have been breached.
It might be beneficial beforehand to look at relevant employer policies and see how you would assess things. That allows you to try and steer the investigating manager's view towards the mild end of consequences.
You've mentioned things like her being provoked, suffering with menopausal symptoms and having apologised already. These factors should help, and you can ensure they're mentioned in the meeting, rather than the chair having to look for them.
The grievance will either be upheld or not, or partially upheld. If it is partially or fully upheld, then a disciplinary process may follow which should be discrete from the grievance. So prepare her for possibly two processes.
The outcome will depend on the employer's disciplinary policy and related policies such as code of conduct.
It might be beneficial beforehand to look at relevant employer policies and see how you would assess things. That allows you to try and steer the investigating manager's view towards the mild end of consequences.
You've mentioned things like her being provoked, suffering with menopausal symptoms and having apologised already. These factors should help, and you can ensure they're mentioned in the meeting, rather than the chair having to look for them.
The grievance will either be upheld or not, or partially upheld. If it is partially or fully upheld, then a disciplinary process may follow which should be discrete from the grievance. So prepare her for possibly two processes.
The outcome will depend on the employer's disciplinary policy and related policies such as code of conduct.
Is your wife seriously affected by the symptoms and has she been over a reasonably lengthy period? Menopause is now being taken increasingly seriously in the workplace, to the point that it can in some circumstances be considered a disability.
https://www.partnerslaw.co.uk/news/new-guidance-co...
Your wife has been to her doctor and they have indicated that it could have driven or exacerbated her response which I assume was totally out of character.
If the person hearing the grievance (and what outcome does the other party actually want?) is well advised by HR (if) then this is a scenario where your wife could be given extra support or adjustments to help her in the workplace.
https://www.partnerslaw.co.uk/news/new-guidance-co...
Your wife has been to her doctor and they have indicated that it could have driven or exacerbated her response which I assume was totally out of character.
If the person hearing the grievance (and what outcome does the other party actually want?) is well advised by HR (if) then this is a scenario where your wife could be given extra support or adjustments to help her in the workplace.
Bonefish Blues said:
Is your wife seriously affected by the symptoms and has she been over a reasonably lengthy period? Menopause is now being taken increasingly seriously in the workplace, to the point that it can in some circumstances be considered a disability.
https://www.partnerslaw.co.uk/news/new-guidance-co...
Your wife has been to her doctor and they have indicated that it could have driven or exacerbated her response which I assume was totally out of character.
If the person hearing the grievance (and what outcome does the other party actually want?) is well advised by HR (if) then this is a scenario where your wife could be given extra support or adjustments to help her in the workplace.
Annoyingly yes. Unfortunately she was on HST, but could not get an appointment for a repeat prescription. The 'withdrawal' broke her body a bit, to the extent that we had an a&e visit.https://www.partnerslaw.co.uk/news/new-guidance-co...
Your wife has been to her doctor and they have indicated that it could have driven or exacerbated her response which I assume was totally out of character.
If the person hearing the grievance (and what outcome does the other party actually want?) is well advised by HR (if) then this is a scenario where your wife could be given extra support or adjustments to help her in the workplace.
She has consequently been trying without HST, but now realises that she really does need it! Sleep deprivation is a real issue,
The other person has been asked what they want. Which is 'never to be spoken to again like that'. This is the person who in the informal meeting said 'I don't give a f
k what others think', and has been known to say things like 'I'm untouchable because my relation is **big boss**). My wife is taking a little time out, and hopefully off to see the doctor today....
surveyor said:
Bonefish Blues said:
Is your wife seriously affected by the symptoms and has she been over a reasonably lengthy period? Menopause is now being taken increasingly seriously in the workplace, to the point that it can in some circumstances be considered a disability.
https://www.partnerslaw.co.uk/news/new-guidance-co...
Your wife has been to her doctor and they have indicated that it could have driven or exacerbated her response which I assume was totally out of character.
If the person hearing the grievance (and what outcome does the other party actually want?) is well advised by HR (if) then this is a scenario where your wife could be given extra support or adjustments to help her in the workplace.
Annoyingly yes. Unfortunately she was on HST, but could not get an appointment for a repeat prescription. The 'withdrawal' broke her body a bit, to the extent that we had an a&e visit.https://www.partnerslaw.co.uk/news/new-guidance-co...
Your wife has been to her doctor and they have indicated that it could have driven or exacerbated her response which I assume was totally out of character.
If the person hearing the grievance (and what outcome does the other party actually want?) is well advised by HR (if) then this is a scenario where your wife could be given extra support or adjustments to help her in the workplace.
She has consequently been trying without HST, but now realises that she really does need it! Sleep deprivation is a real issue,
The other person has been asked what they want. Which is 'never to be spoken to again like that'. This is the person who in the informal meeting said 'I don't give a f
k what others think', and has been known to say things like 'I'm untouchable because my relation is **big boss**). My wife is taking a little time out, and hopefully off to see the doctor today....
snobetter said:
As others have said, if it's as you describe nothing to worry about, disagreements happen, we're human, your wife has dealt well with it afterwards apologising and presume will say won't happen again, add into that the menopause which is having a lot of attention in the workplace, esp in the NHS, causing a lack of sleep, they will probably have a menopause policy. Could also request a occ health referral. Your wife has taken action to address her underlying issue to help in the future. If the witness backs up as you've said, you're wife has already apologised and agreed not to happen again that should be recorded and the end of it.
I agree.As I said in my earlier post, I deal with this sort of thing occasionally, and the worst I would give for this is a verbal warning, or temporary written warning that lasts for 6 months, but more than that, it would be asking the accused to seek some help for their issues, and supporting them with that process.
surveyor said:
Bonefish Blues said:
Is your wife seriously affected by the symptoms and has she been over a reasonably lengthy period? Menopause is now being taken increasingly seriously in the workplace, to the point that it can in some circumstances be considered a disability.
https://www.partnerslaw.co.uk/news/new-guidance-co...
Your wife has been to her doctor and they have indicated that it could have driven or exacerbated her response which I assume was totally out of character.
If the person hearing the grievance (and what outcome does the other party actually want?) is well advised by HR (if) then this is a scenario where your wife could be given extra support or adjustments to help her in the workplace.
Annoyingly yes. Unfortunately she was on HST, but could not get an appointment for a repeat prescription. The 'withdrawal' broke her body a bit, to the extent that we had an a&e visit.https://www.partnerslaw.co.uk/news/new-guidance-co...
Your wife has been to her doctor and they have indicated that it could have driven or exacerbated her response which I assume was totally out of character.
If the person hearing the grievance (and what outcome does the other party actually want?) is well advised by HR (if) then this is a scenario where your wife could be given extra support or adjustments to help her in the workplace.
She has consequently been trying without HST, but now realises that she really does need it! Sleep deprivation is a real issue,
The other person has been asked what they want. Which is 'never to be spoken to again like that'. This is the person who in the informal meeting said 'I don't give a f
k what others think', and has been known to say things like 'I'm untouchable because my relation is **big boss**). My wife is taking a little time out, and hopefully off to see the doctor today....
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