Help with mileage allowance rate...
Discussion
Hi All
My girlfriend has a work vehicle - she uses this to go to an array of sites for work.
Her boss has asked if she would be comfortable using her own vehicle, the financial compensation would be the standard UK allowance of £0.45 per mile - I don't know exactly how many miles she does with her van currently, I've assumed about 10,000.
I'm not very comfortable with her accepting this... I have worked out (approx) the following costs:
£0.45 mileage allowance = £4,500 PA
10,000 work miles at £45 MPG is around £1,432 PA.
Her insurance increases by around £200 for this (based on online quotes).
Based on the cost of her tyres and the rate they wear, a rough £350 cost PA for tyre wear.
And depreciation is very difficult to calculate, but similar cars in the classifieds are around £2,250 cheaper with the increased mileage after 2 years.
This leaves a £267ish surplus from the allowance.
This doesn't seem like much, given the chances of a bill popping up that may have otherwise been years off should she continue to only use the car for personal use (under 4k PA).
If she gets a puncture on-site at a work job, is that mileage allowance covering that cost from the 45p per mile? Or would her employer pay that separately?
It doesn't sound like a very good deal to me, given she currently has a work van.
I've never needed a work vehicle before so don't know how it works.
Any advice would be appreciated.
My girlfriend has a work vehicle - she uses this to go to an array of sites for work.
Her boss has asked if she would be comfortable using her own vehicle, the financial compensation would be the standard UK allowance of £0.45 per mile - I don't know exactly how many miles she does with her van currently, I've assumed about 10,000.
I'm not very comfortable with her accepting this... I have worked out (approx) the following costs:
£0.45 mileage allowance = £4,500 PA
10,000 work miles at £45 MPG is around £1,432 PA.
Her insurance increases by around £200 for this (based on online quotes).
Based on the cost of her tyres and the rate they wear, a rough £350 cost PA for tyre wear.
And depreciation is very difficult to calculate, but similar cars in the classifieds are around £2,250 cheaper with the increased mileage after 2 years.
This leaves a £267ish surplus from the allowance.
This doesn't seem like much, given the chances of a bill popping up that may have otherwise been years off should she continue to only use the car for personal use (under 4k PA).
If she gets a puncture on-site at a work job, is that mileage allowance covering that cost from the 45p per mile? Or would her employer pay that separately?
It doesn't sound like a very good deal to me, given she currently has a work van.
I've never needed a work vehicle before so don't know how it works.
Any advice would be appreciated.
My understanding (I'm not a tax person..), is that the milage allowances are set by HMRC
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rates-a...
My understanding is that anything on top of that would be subject to tax under a benefit in kind ??
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rates-a...
My understanding is that anything on top of that would be subject to tax under a benefit in kind ??
TREMAiNE said:
Her boss has asked if she would be comfortable using her own vehicle
Generally speaking, if an employer wants someone to use their own car and give up a company vehicle, it's because it's cheaper for the company. This is especially true lately, now that finance costs more, so vehicle leasing is more expensive.Personally, I'd avoid it.
10k miles a year at the (long overdue an increase) HMRC rate, and shouldering all the risk and cost at your side? Nah.
Edit - if the existing van is due for replacement, maybe consider if they need one of <whatever size it is>, and downsize? Peugeot Bipper, Fiesta van?
Edited by shtu on Tuesday 27th February 14:18
TREMAiNE said:
Hi All
My girlfriend has a work vehicle - she uses this to go to an array of sites for work.
Her boss has asked if she would be comfortable using her own vehicle, the financial compensation would be the standard UK allowance of £0.45 per mile - I don't know exactly how many miles she does with her van currently, I've assumed about 10,000.
I'm not very comfortable with her accepting this... I have worked out (approx) the following costs:
£0.45 mileage allowance = £4,500 PA
10,000 work miles at £45 MPG is around £1,432 PA.
Her insurance increases by around £200 for this (based on online quotes).
Based on the cost of her tyres and the rate they wear, a rough £350 cost PA for tyre wear.
And depreciation is very difficult to calculate, but similar cars in the classifieds are around £2,250 cheaper with the increased mileage after 2 years.
This leaves a £267ish surplus from the allowance.
This doesn't seem like much, given the chances of a bill popping up that may have otherwise been years off should she continue to only use the car for personal use (under 4k PA).
If she gets a puncture on-site at a work job, is that mileage allowance covering that cost from the 45p per mile? Or would her employer pay that separately?
It doesn't sound like a very good deal to me, given she currently has a work van.
I've never needed a work vehicle before so don't know how it works.
Any advice would be appreciated.
You really need to know the mileage she does. The HMRC allowable rate goes down from 45p to 25p for any miles over 10,000.My girlfriend has a work vehicle - she uses this to go to an array of sites for work.
Her boss has asked if she would be comfortable using her own vehicle, the financial compensation would be the standard UK allowance of £0.45 per mile - I don't know exactly how many miles she does with her van currently, I've assumed about 10,000.
I'm not very comfortable with her accepting this... I have worked out (approx) the following costs:
£0.45 mileage allowance = £4,500 PA
10,000 work miles at £45 MPG is around £1,432 PA.
Her insurance increases by around £200 for this (based on online quotes).
Based on the cost of her tyres and the rate they wear, a rough £350 cost PA for tyre wear.
And depreciation is very difficult to calculate, but similar cars in the classifieds are around £2,250 cheaper with the increased mileage after 2 years.
This leaves a £267ish surplus from the allowance.
This doesn't seem like much, given the chances of a bill popping up that may have otherwise been years off should she continue to only use the car for personal use (under 4k PA).
If she gets a puncture on-site at a work job, is that mileage allowance covering that cost from the 45p per mile? Or would her employer pay that separately?
It doesn't sound like a very good deal to me, given she currently has a work van.
I've never needed a work vehicle before so don't know how it works.
Any advice would be appreciated.
As a rule of thumb I generally take the fuel cost and double it to give an approximate annual cost of running the vehicle. This does not include depreciation, at 10,000 miles per annum that is going to be significant.
She should ask what annual allowance they are going to pay her so that she can obtain a vehicle. There may be a mix of allowance plus a slightly reduced ppm available. Any shortfall in ppm can be recovered against tax as well. The allowance would be treated as extra income for tax purposes, so tax at her applicable rate plus NI would be deducted dependent on her income.
As another poster has pointed out the deal she has been offered is massively benefitting the company and will cost her.
The other thing to bear in mind is, what happens if there's a problem with her van and it's off the road for a couple of weeks. I assume she'd need to hire, beg, borrow, or steal something at her own expense? Whereas I assume if she had a company vehicle then in this sort of situation the company would sort out a replacement.
I think it will depend on a number of factors.
What car she drives, the MPG it returns, likely devaluation etc.
I use my fairly old 3.0 X5 for work occasionally and get the standard HMRC rate of 45p per mile, It probably just about covers it assuming approximately 25p per mile in fuel, negligible insurance cost, minimal servicing costs as I do it myself, tyres and something towards depreciation.
Back when I was using my old £3k Merc C220 at 50+mpg on the motorway and diesel was at just over £1 Litre, 45P per mile was great.
What car she drives, the MPG it returns, likely devaluation etc.
I use my fairly old 3.0 X5 for work occasionally and get the standard HMRC rate of 45p per mile, It probably just about covers it assuming approximately 25p per mile in fuel, negligible insurance cost, minimal servicing costs as I do it myself, tyres and something towards depreciation.
Back when I was using my old £3k Merc C220 at 50+mpg on the motorway and diesel was at just over £1 Litre, 45P per mile was great.
Thanks all.
So the purpose of the change is that a new member of staff is possibly being employed, they would have the van hence the need for her own car.
Luckily, I overhead the Teams meeting so ran upstairs and told her not to agree (which she would have done to be helpful).
I've just checked the van reg. It's 3 years old and done 54k. Only 1 MOT so hard to gauge if that mileage is consistent, but approx 18k PA.
So £6,500 allowance PA.
She'll certainly be down up to £1,128 over 2 years. More if there are car repairs.
So the purpose of the change is that a new member of staff is possibly being employed, they would have the van hence the need for her own car.
Luckily, I overhead the Teams meeting so ran upstairs and told her not to agree (which she would have done to be helpful).
I've just checked the van reg. It's 3 years old and done 54k. Only 1 MOT so hard to gauge if that mileage is consistent, but approx 18k PA.
So £6,500 allowance PA.
She'll certainly be down up to £1,128 over 2 years. More if there are car repairs.
Another thing to bear in mind is that the HMRC approved rate of 45p a mile rate only applies to the first 10,000 miles. Any business mileage beyond 10,000 can only be reimbursed at up to 25p a mile without attracting a tax liability.
These rates are the maximum per mile reimbursements that HMRC consider appropriate to cover an individual's costs in using their own car for business, without resulting in "profit", or additional income which would be subject to tax.
Most companies that require their employees to undertake regular business mileage will either provide a vehicle to do it in, or pay a cash allowance (subject to income tax) and a per mile reimbursement to help cover the costs.
Expecting someone to do 10,000 miles or more in their own vehicle while simply covering the running costs is a bit harsh. I wouldn't be keen to do it.
I run an old XC90 for work, but the company pays me an allowance on top of the mileage rate, and if I do 2,000 business miles a year these days, it's a heavy year. My employer has closed most of its offices, and nobody really goes anywhere post-Covid.
These rates are the maximum per mile reimbursements that HMRC consider appropriate to cover an individual's costs in using their own car for business, without resulting in "profit", or additional income which would be subject to tax.
Most companies that require their employees to undertake regular business mileage will either provide a vehicle to do it in, or pay a cash allowance (subject to income tax) and a per mile reimbursement to help cover the costs.
Expecting someone to do 10,000 miles or more in their own vehicle while simply covering the running costs is a bit harsh. I wouldn't be keen to do it.
I run an old XC90 for work, but the company pays me an allowance on top of the mileage rate, and if I do 2,000 business miles a year these days, it's a heavy year. My employer has closed most of its offices, and nobody really goes anywhere post-Covid.
Edited by Limpet on Tuesday 27th February 15:29
TREMAiNE said:
So the purpose of the change is that a new member of staff is possibly being employed, they would have the van hence the need for her own car.
What this hinges on is the mileage she already does. Few hundred, couple of thousand? less concerning.If she's already clocking up 18k a year travelling to (building?) sites, I'd refuse. That 45p rate is only for the first 10k, drops to 25p after that. (I know it's a little more complex than that, trying to keep it simple)
That's firmly into the range that the business should buy\lease another van, and it's hardly her fault they haven't budgeted all the costs of a new member of staff.
obv we don't have the full picture here, but is sounds like a "oh, the new start will need a van too, but we've no money for that. Hang on, Mrs_Tremaine has her own car, we'll lean on her to use it."
Far too many costs on her end of that deal, and she carries all the risk. Have an accident in a company vehicle, and most of the expense and risk falls on the company - arguing with insurers, replacing a vehicle, hiring a standin, injury claims, etc. Same in your own, and you'll be dealing with all that, in your own time too.
Never mind,
Depreciation
Servicing
Insurance
Breakdown cover
Breakdowns
Vehicle Hire
Wear and tear
Tyres
etc
If they'd any sense they'd lease a small, cheap van, signwrite it, and run the thing through the company.
Something to check is the terms of her contract of employment in relation to car use and travelling.
If it states that the company will provide her a vehicle, the change they are asking of her will require a change to the terms of the contract. As such, there should be no financial detriment to her following the change and if there is, there should be measures to rebalance this. What this will normally mean is that the company will agree to cover additional work-related travel expenditure as and when it arrises so that over the course of each year, she is no worse off as a result of the change. They key is to check the parameters of this - what is determined 'work related expense' and so on.
In theory, a mileage allowance tends to favour the employee, as your calculations show - but this advantage is marginal so you just need to be clear on how excesses are covered.
If it states that the company will provide her a vehicle, the change they are asking of her will require a change to the terms of the contract. As such, there should be no financial detriment to her following the change and if there is, there should be measures to rebalance this. What this will normally mean is that the company will agree to cover additional work-related travel expenditure as and when it arrises so that over the course of each year, she is no worse off as a result of the change. They key is to check the parameters of this - what is determined 'work related expense' and so on.
In theory, a mileage allowance tends to favour the employee, as your calculations show - but this advantage is marginal so you just need to be clear on how excesses are covered.
StevieBee said:
Something to check is the terms of her contract of employment in relation to car use and travelling.
If it states that the company will provide her a vehicle, the change they are asking of her will require a change to the terms of the contract. As such, there should be no financial detriment to her following the change and if there is, there should be measures to rebalance this. What this will normally mean is that the company will agree to cover additional work-related travel expenditure as and when it arrises so that over the course of each year, she is no worse off as a result of the change. They key is to check the parameters of this - what is determined 'work related expense' and so on.
In theory, a mileage allowance tends to favour the employee, as your calculations show - but this advantage is marginal so you just need to be clear on how excesses are covered.
Excellent point re the contract.If it states that the company will provide her a vehicle, the change they are asking of her will require a change to the terms of the contract. As such, there should be no financial detriment to her following the change and if there is, there should be measures to rebalance this. What this will normally mean is that the company will agree to cover additional work-related travel expenditure as and when it arrises so that over the course of each year, she is no worse off as a result of the change. They key is to check the parameters of this - what is determined 'work related expense' and so on.
In theory, a mileage allowance tends to favour the employee, as your calculations show - but this advantage is marginal so you just need to be clear on how excesses are covered.
Currently have a company car, but when I left my previous job the car allowance was £5500 (7 years ago) so that's a decent starting point for her.
Also make sure that the company can't dictate age/ type/ mileage of any car she uses.
If they have a rule that it has to be 3 years old at most, your buying into the steepest part of the depreciation curve.
Also make sure that the company can't dictate age/ type/ mileage of any car she uses.
If they have a rule that it has to be 3 years old at most, your buying into the steepest part of the depreciation curve.
No mention of any car allowance to buy one in the post, which makes sense if offering 45p a mile, those that offer a cash allowance generally offer lower ppm.
So, its a no from me, the 45ppm reimbursement is generally OK for a couple of thousand miles a year tops, as an occossinal business use driver.
It would be a big fat no from me.
So, its a no from me, the 45ppm reimbursement is generally OK for a couple of thousand miles a year tops, as an occossinal business use driver.
It would be a big fat no from me.
Tomo1971 said:
No mention of any car allowance to buy one in the post, which makes sense if offering 45p a mile, those that offer a cash allowance generally offer lower ppm.
So, its a no from me, the 45ppm reimbursement is generally OK for a couple of thousand miles a year tops, as an occossinal business use driver.
It would be a big fat no from me.
Yes seems strange that there is no offer of a car / van allowance to replace what was a company vehicle and I assume she is being taxed as a BIK, effectively they are giving her a wage cut. I would be negotiating an allowance in lieu as well as mileage or saying no. Bearing in mind a lot of co's will reduce the 45p rate if they pay an allowance as wellSo, its a no from me, the 45ppm reimbursement is generally OK for a couple of thousand miles a year tops, as an occossinal business use driver.
It would be a big fat no from me.
martinbiz said:
Tomo1971 said:
No mention of any car allowance to buy one in the post, which makes sense if offering 45p a mile, those that offer a cash allowance generally offer lower ppm.
So, its a no from me, the 45ppm reimbursement is generally OK for a couple of thousand miles a year tops, as an occossinal business use driver.
It would be a big fat no from me.
Yes seems strange that there is no offer of a car / van allowance to replace what was a company vehicle and I assume she is being taxed as a BIK, effectively they are giving her a wage cut. I would be negotiating an allowance in lieu as well as mileage or saying no. Bearing in mind a lot of co's will reduce the 45p rate if they pay an allowance as wellSo, its a no from me, the 45ppm reimbursement is generally OK for a couple of thousand miles a year tops, as an occossinal business use driver.
It would be a big fat no from me.
A Car Allowance, however, is a taxable benefit on which, National Insurance is also paid.
The system is designed to dissuade companies from using vehicles as incentives or perks and where vehicles are genuinely needed for work related activity, those vehicles are of a type suitable for need and nothing more.
A company may change how they provide the means for business travel at any time for whatever reason. The important aspect, as I mentioned, is that when this change occurs, there is no material financial disadvantage to the employee. That may occur if the employee's own car is a Hummer where 45p per mile wouldn't touch the sides but a Hummer would not be a vehicle suitable for need.
StevieBee said:
martinbiz said:
Tomo1971 said:
No mention of any car allowance to buy one in the post, which makes sense if offering 45p a mile, those that offer a cash allowance generally offer lower ppm.
So, its a no from me, the 45ppm reimbursement is generally OK for a couple of thousand miles a year tops, as an occossinal business use driver.
It would be a big fat no from me.
Yes seems strange that there is no offer of a car / van allowance to replace what was a company vehicle and I assume she is being taxed as a BIK, effectively they are giving her a wage cut. I would be negotiating an allowance in lieu as well as mileage or saying no. Bearing in mind a lot of co's will reduce the 45p rate if they pay an allowance as wellSo, its a no from me, the 45ppm reimbursement is generally OK for a couple of thousand miles a year tops, as an occossinal business use driver.
It would be a big fat no from me.
A Car Allowance, however, is a taxable benefit on which, National Insurance is also paid.
The system is designed to dissuade companies from using vehicles as incentives or perks and where vehicles are genuinely needed for work related activity, those vehicles are of a type suitable for need and nothing more.
A company may change how they provide the means for business travel at any time for whatever reason. The important aspect, as I mentioned, is that when this change occurs, there is no material financial disadvantage to the employee. That may occur if the employee's own car is a Hummer where 45p per mile wouldn't touch the sides but a Hummer would not be a vehicle suitable for need.
the 45ppm was pretty good about 2011 when it was introduced - the company i worked for actually stopped us using our own cars as it was costing them too much.
Now I would only accept it for doing occasional trips, anything else a pool car.
Fuel cost is about the same, everything else has gone up significantly (tyres, insurance, cars, servicing). What happens if your car goes wrong and takes a while to be repaired?
Now I would only accept it for doing occasional trips, anything else a pool car.
Fuel cost is about the same, everything else has gone up significantly (tyres, insurance, cars, servicing). What happens if your car goes wrong and takes a while to be repaired?
martinbiz said:
StevieBee said:
martinbiz said:
Tomo1971 said:
No mention of any car allowance to buy one in the post, which makes sense if offering 45p a mile, those that offer a cash allowance generally offer lower ppm.
So, its a no from me, the 45ppm reimbursement is generally OK for a couple of thousand miles a year tops, as an occossinal business use driver.
It would be a big fat no from me.
Yes seems strange that there is no offer of a car / van allowance to replace what was a company vehicle and I assume she is being taxed as a BIK, effectively they are giving her a wage cut. I would be negotiating an allowance in lieu as well as mileage or saying no. Bearing in mind a lot of co's will reduce the 45p rate if they pay an allowance as wellSo, its a no from me, the 45ppm reimbursement is generally OK for a couple of thousand miles a year tops, as an occossinal business use driver.
It would be a big fat no from me.
A Car Allowance, however, is a taxable benefit on which, National Insurance is also paid.
The system is designed to dissuade companies from using vehicles as incentives or perks and where vehicles are genuinely needed for work related activity, those vehicles are of a type suitable for need and nothing more.
A company may change how they provide the means for business travel at any time for whatever reason. The important aspect, as I mentioned, is that when this change occurs, there is no material financial disadvantage to the employee. That may occur if the employee's own car is a Hummer where 45p per mile wouldn't touch the sides but a Hummer would not be a vehicle suitable for need.
StevieBee said:
In the first para you suggested that there might be BIK on the 45ppm and that the company has effectively cut her wages. The latter may be the case but is the only factor in the arrangement described by the OP that is not allowed.
I said:Yes seems strange that there is no offer of a car / van allowance to replace what was a company vehicle and I assume she is being taxed as a BIK
I was referring to the Co vehicle she has at the moment.
Misunderstanding I think
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