Promotion into Management - Worth it?
Discussion
In a large organisation if working as a direct contributor in a technically skilled role on £50k pa, is a promotion into a management position on £60k pa worth it? The lesser role is specialised, important, enjoyable, rewarding, and you only have to worry about completing your own tasks, but the workload is high, sometimes very difficult, with unrealistic/unachievable expectations. The higher role involves very little substantive work and is mostly line management, meetings, emails, assurance and monitoring, projects/initiatives, developing people in the job you used to do, HR (performance, attendance etc), with pressure from below and above. The payrise is eroded by higher tax, NI, and 100% child benefit recuperation, (I worked it out to be only an extra £300 pm) but does boost the pension (assuming one lives until retirement) although unclear by how much.
Any views or words of wisdom on whether management is best avoided for an easier life on still decent money, or whether it is best pursued to avoid plateauing in one’s career?
Any views or words of wisdom on whether management is best avoided for an easier life on still decent money, or whether it is best pursued to avoid plateauing in one’s career?
It 100% depends on you, your personality and what drives you.
I know people who thrive on technical challenges and being able to sit down and solve a problem. Ask them to deal with the unstructured fuzziness of people management or those time-wasting type of "meetings" and they go to pieces. The most sensible (and happiness) have even stepped back after moving "up". There is a reason that the best companies have a "technical" track which allows you to be promoted and obtain higher pay without having to give up technical work to become a "manager".
But all that said, there are also other people who much prefer management and contribute far more in that role.
Sadly, it's impossible for someone sat here to advise you, as only you know yourself (and perhaps not even that) what your personality is.
The fact your are asking does suggest, possibly, to me that you prefer the technical role.
I know people who thrive on technical challenges and being able to sit down and solve a problem. Ask them to deal with the unstructured fuzziness of people management or those time-wasting type of "meetings" and they go to pieces. The most sensible (and happiness) have even stepped back after moving "up". There is a reason that the best companies have a "technical" track which allows you to be promoted and obtain higher pay without having to give up technical work to become a "manager".
But all that said, there are also other people who much prefer management and contribute far more in that role.
Sadly, it's impossible for someone sat here to advise you, as only you know yourself (and perhaps not even that) what your personality is.
The fact your are asking does suggest, possibly, to me that you prefer the technical role.
It’s 300 pcm now, but what about in five years time? Still on the technical track doing the same value work at 3% increase per year.
Or growing in a management and leadership role and helping drive the business?
Direct comparisons are worthless, what’s the future prospect. Also what do you really enjoy?
Or growing in a management and leadership role and helping drive the business?
Direct comparisons are worthless, what’s the future prospect. Also what do you really enjoy?
I spent a lot of my career getting promoted and then changing job to start near the bottom of the ladder again.
I'm retired now. One thing I will say is never underestimate the stress of managing people. However, I was in sales and sales people have fragile egos. I had 15 people in my team and had to juggle to cover sickness.
I had people tell me I was a good and fair manager but it was stressful. Some people put a lot of effort into doing as little as possible. One thing I was pretty crap at was delegating and not checking that the person was working on the task. Nothing worse than getting to the deadline to discover the individual had not done what was asked. It was my head on the block.
Personally, I am not sure if an extra £300 a month would be enough.
I'm retired now. One thing I will say is never underestimate the stress of managing people. However, I was in sales and sales people have fragile egos. I had 15 people in my team and had to juggle to cover sickness.
I had people tell me I was a good and fair manager but it was stressful. Some people put a lot of effort into doing as little as possible. One thing I was pretty crap at was delegating and not checking that the person was working on the task. Nothing worse than getting to the deadline to discover the individual had not done what was asked. It was my head on the block.
Personally, I am not sure if an extra £300 a month would be enough.
I got promoted up from being a field engineer to something similar to your proposed new role about 7-8 years ago. At first I thought it would be great to start to climb the greasy pole. However, the wage rise wasn't even as much as yours percentage wise and the amount of hassle the role had from below and above made it a misery.
The work (as above) was quite different/fuzzy and I often felt like I hadn't really achieved anything at the end of the day. I found that in my case being a good engineer didn't mean I was then a good manager of engineers. It didn't help that I was expected to carry on as a field engineer over a period of time, then slowly move to 100% manager role.
Turned out that a year after I'd left/retired my replacement was still doing the split field/manager thing, so who knows how long I'd have been doing both roles for if I'd stayed. I also asked to step down at one point and that wasn't allowed, so I had the choice to leave and retire or find similar work elsewhere and start learning new processes/equipment all over again.
Had I stayed being a field engineer I reckon I'd have done a few more years before retiring, so any difference in pension would have been made up for with extra years of contributions rather than slightly larger ones. It does depend how close you are to wanting to retire as well though, but I often wish I'd not taken that promotion as it soured my last years with the company.
Tl;dr Make sure that you fully appreciate the difference in the role and whether it suits you, especially for a modest increase in salary.
The work (as above) was quite different/fuzzy and I often felt like I hadn't really achieved anything at the end of the day. I found that in my case being a good engineer didn't mean I was then a good manager of engineers. It didn't help that I was expected to carry on as a field engineer over a period of time, then slowly move to 100% manager role.
Turned out that a year after I'd left/retired my replacement was still doing the split field/manager thing, so who knows how long I'd have been doing both roles for if I'd stayed. I also asked to step down at one point and that wasn't allowed, so I had the choice to leave and retire or find similar work elsewhere and start learning new processes/equipment all over again.
Had I stayed being a field engineer I reckon I'd have done a few more years before retiring, so any difference in pension would have been made up for with extra years of contributions rather than slightly larger ones. It does depend how close you are to wanting to retire as well though, but I often wish I'd not taken that promotion as it soured my last years with the company.
Tl;dr Make sure that you fully appreciate the difference in the role and whether it suits you, especially for a modest increase in salary.
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hstewie said:
hstewie said: Yeah I think people management is something you either enjoy or don't and I know I didn't.
It's one thing knowing what needs to be done and what you want people to do.
Getting them to do it is something else.
If you haven't done it before don't underestimate how it can grind you down.
I agree with this.It's one thing knowing what needs to be done and what you want people to do.
Getting them to do it is something else.
If you haven't done it before don't underestimate how it can grind you down.
Technical issues in engineering can be really annoying when things aren't working or understood, but they never involve you having to manage someone else's family, substance abuse problems, underperformance and so on.
If you want to get into management, be prepared to have to take your favourite employee out of the business, it's the nature of the job.
Personally I prefer playing with widgets.
Gargamel said:
It’s 300 pcm now, but what about in five years time? Still on the technical track doing the same value work at 3% increase per year.
Or growing in a management and leadership role and helping drive the business?
Direct comparisons are worthless, what’s the future prospect. Also what do you really enjoy?
By the same token is there a technical career track which would ascend the ranks / pay scales without the management aspect.Or growing in a management and leadership role and helping drive the business?
Direct comparisons are worthless, what’s the future prospect. Also what do you really enjoy?
Its not a given that staying technical is a glass ceiling at OP's currengt level.
As said above it is a pain, and leaving work behind in evenings and weekends become more difficult.
However the first step on the management ladder is a route to more senior management roles, and higher pay. If higher pay is a motivation then it’s a step you are going to need to take at some point.
However the first step on the management ladder is a route to more senior management roles, and higher pay. If higher pay is a motivation then it’s a step you are going to need to take at some point.
Crafty_ said:
Gargamel said:
It’s 300 pcm now, but what about in five years time? Still on the technical track doing the same value work at 3% increase per year.
Or growing in a management and leadership role and helping drive the business?
Direct comparisons are worthless, what’s the future prospect. Also what do you really enjoy?
By the same token is there a technical career track which would ascend the ranks / pay scales without the management aspect.Or growing in a management and leadership role and helping drive the business?
Direct comparisons are worthless, what’s the future prospect. Also what do you really enjoy?
Its not a given that staying technical is a glass ceiling at OP's currengt level.
It sounds like the op doesn't like emails and meetings and doesn't consider them 'proper work' so I think given the tone of the post his mind is made up already. If the money wasn't a factor it was the same pay, I doubt the OP would chose the management role.
Personally I like the people side of things, getting a team to perform is super enjoyable and you have more autonomy.
In terms of people management I'd mention a few things
The first "management" job is always the hardest, especially if you're now having to manage people that you were on the same grade as. It does get easier the longer you do it.
It can be challenging at first when you inherit an existing team, all with their own ways of working. Over time you will be able to recruit people who fit in with YOUR way of working, who don't have existing baggage, who don't resent your career progression. Alongside this it's possible via coaching/training/line managing to get people to do what YOU need them to do, rather than them doing what they WANT to do. People like to stay in their comfort zones
If you want to make serious money in the long term then you will need to be in a Management or Director role. So the sooner you get onto that ladder the better.
The first "management" job is always the hardest, especially if you're now having to manage people that you were on the same grade as. It does get easier the longer you do it.
It can be challenging at first when you inherit an existing team, all with their own ways of working. Over time you will be able to recruit people who fit in with YOUR way of working, who don't have existing baggage, who don't resent your career progression. Alongside this it's possible via coaching/training/line managing to get people to do what YOU need them to do, rather than them doing what they WANT to do. People like to stay in their comfort zones
If you want to make serious money in the long term then you will need to be in a Management or Director role. So the sooner you get onto that ladder the better.
Countdown said:
If you want to make serious money in the long term then you will need to be in a Management or Director role. So the sooner you get onto that ladder the better.
I moved from a global IT firm to a City firm about 6 years ago, now make 3x what the MD of my old firm makes.YMMV.
Unfortunately I have a rather simplistic view of the male career.
Men are a little like tuna fish, they need to keep moving, staying in the same place is, paradoxically, harder than going for promotion.
It’s likely to get the usual barrage any opinion on here does, but I believe trying to maintain a static position in the workplace is hard, from both a structural and psychological perspective.
Men are a little like tuna fish, they need to keep moving, staying in the same place is, paradoxically, harder than going for promotion.
It’s likely to get the usual barrage any opinion on here does, but I believe trying to maintain a static position in the workplace is hard, from both a structural and psychological perspective.
CraigyMc said:
Countdown said:
If you want to make serious money in the long term then you will need to be in a Management or Director role. So the sooner you get onto that ladder the better.
I moved from a global IT firm to a City firm about 6 years ago, now make 3x what the MD of my old firm makes.YMMV.
Usually managers make more money than the people they manage. I’m aware that in some roles where bonuses make up a large part of the remuneration this might not be true but generally managers get paid more.
Personally I’ve had three different ‘career’ types and always naturally progressed into management roles.
It’s certainly not for everyone, but I find managing people and their complexities far more interesting and involving than working on ‘stuff’.
In terms of the pay difference, if you’re living comfortably with your 50k, I’d be chucking the whole 10k into a pension. £300pm isn’t a big gain, but 10k a year is.
Ultimately you’ve got to do what’s right for you, but if you’ve got some years left ahead of you I’d make the move.
It’s certainly not for everyone, but I find managing people and their complexities far more interesting and involving than working on ‘stuff’.
In terms of the pay difference, if you’re living comfortably with your 50k, I’d be chucking the whole 10k into a pension. £300pm isn’t a big gain, but 10k a year is.
Ultimately you’ve got to do what’s right for you, but if you’ve got some years left ahead of you I’d make the move.
Countdown said:
CraigyMc said:
Countdown said:
If you want to make serious money in the long term then you will need to be in a Management or Director role. So the sooner you get onto that ladder the better.
I moved from a global IT firm to a City firm about 6 years ago, now make 3x what the MD of my old firm makes.YMMV.
Usually managers make more money than the people they manage. I’m aware that in some roles where bonuses make up a large part of the remuneration this might not be true but generally managers get paid more.
OP here.
Thanks for the interesting responses.
The manager position will always be around £10k ‘ahead’ of the direct contributor position. It’s whether that non-life changing sum of money is worth all the extra stress, responsibility and long hours. Yes, the pension will pay more post-retirement, but that assumes you live to retirement and, even if you do, it might mean a much unhappier journey to retirement.
The entry level manager position is realistically as far as I could go and as far as I would want to go. So once the position is taken, I would have plateaued anyway.
The technical role I am in does have a specialist promotion path. But once you’re above my role, you are doing horrendously complicated and convoluted work for, again, only another £10k per year.
I do have a good 20+ years of work left in me. How my technical role looks today will likely have evolved over the next 20 years. The field is always evolving, and requires lots of ongoing training and development to remain competent. The subject matter is interesting, rewarding and challenging. It’s very difficult to walk away for that into something that’s fundamentally not enjoyable (to me) along with the other pitfalls.
In my direct contributor role, there are also side step opportunities offering different subject matters should I get restless with what I’ve been working on thus far.
How much difference is £10k pa on top of the £50k pa I earn now going to make to my pension?
Isn’t there a doctrine that people are promoted to their level of incompetence? Isn’t it better to be a highly skilled and valued individual contributor than a no more than adequate manager?
Thanks for the interesting responses.
The manager position will always be around £10k ‘ahead’ of the direct contributor position. It’s whether that non-life changing sum of money is worth all the extra stress, responsibility and long hours. Yes, the pension will pay more post-retirement, but that assumes you live to retirement and, even if you do, it might mean a much unhappier journey to retirement.
The entry level manager position is realistically as far as I could go and as far as I would want to go. So once the position is taken, I would have plateaued anyway.
The technical role I am in does have a specialist promotion path. But once you’re above my role, you are doing horrendously complicated and convoluted work for, again, only another £10k per year.
I do have a good 20+ years of work left in me. How my technical role looks today will likely have evolved over the next 20 years. The field is always evolving, and requires lots of ongoing training and development to remain competent. The subject matter is interesting, rewarding and challenging. It’s very difficult to walk away for that into something that’s fundamentally not enjoyable (to me) along with the other pitfalls.
In my direct contributor role, there are also side step opportunities offering different subject matters should I get restless with what I’ve been working on thus far.
How much difference is £10k pa on top of the £50k pa I earn now going to make to my pension?
Isn’t there a doctrine that people are promoted to their level of incompetence? Isn’t it better to be a highly skilled and valued individual contributor than a no more than adequate manager?
The Peter principle.
I do think people sometimes feel "forced" to move into a role they don't really want because culturally that's just the "done thing" in their profession or with their employer and they're worried they look like they've given up if they're actually happy doing what they do.
I do think people sometimes feel "forced" to move into a role they don't really want because culturally that's just the "done thing" in their profession or with their employer and they're worried they look like they've given up if they're actually happy doing what they do.
The trick is not to become an ‘accidental manager’.
https://hbr.org/2023/05/are-you-an-accidental-mana...
The workplace is littered with them, and the collateral damage they inflict.
If it’s a conscious decision to develop one’s management and leadership competencies with the ultimate goal of being a professional manager and leader, with the privilege of leading others, then the necessary study and training is essential in order to avoid becoming that accidental manager. Imagine if we had ‘accidental surgeons’!?
Determining if you have the skills and aptitude to transition from someone who does stuff to the person who manages the people who do stuff is key. Many people can transition quite quickly. Some transition more slowly. And unfortunately, many can never successfully make the transition.
https://hbr.org/2023/05/are-you-an-accidental-mana...
The workplace is littered with them, and the collateral damage they inflict.
If it’s a conscious decision to develop one’s management and leadership competencies with the ultimate goal of being a professional manager and leader, with the privilege of leading others, then the necessary study and training is essential in order to avoid becoming that accidental manager. Imagine if we had ‘accidental surgeons’!?
Determining if you have the skills and aptitude to transition from someone who does stuff to the person who manages the people who do stuff is key. Many people can transition quite quickly. Some transition more slowly. And unfortunately, many can never successfully make the transition.
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