Personal phone allowance

[KAgantua]

About 2 years ago our company stopped offering work phones, instead lettting you use personal phone (With downloading authenticator apps and outlook etc) for a monthly fee into your pay packet (Was about twenty quid a month if i reclal)

They have stopped doing this and snuck in to the new employee manual - no comms.

I am checking to see when thsi was removed from my pay packet.

If I no longer want to use my personal phone for work related puproses (It is on my signature) can they compel me to do so?

This is in England, company is Amercian (Which may explain the laissez-faire approach to HR and compensation matters!!)

[Countdown]

No they can't. However (for me) it depends on what its used for

1. Authenticator app so i can log on remotely - no problem at all
2. Business calls and hot-spotting when I'm on the train - no thanks (if you need me to have a phone for business purposes you should contribute towards it)

ll that being said it would depend on how much i was paid and how much i enjoyed the job. If I loved it and was paid megabucks I wouldn't kick up a fuss over £20pcm

[KAgantua]

Yeah its the latter point (and the fact I have to have my personal phone no on my work sig) that bothers me.

Job pays well and they are generally OK, however im concerned this is the thin end of a wedge around general dickery and penny pincing...

[GiantEnemyCrab]

Wanganui said:

Yeah its the latter point (and the fact I have to have my personal phone no on my work sig) that bothers me.
Job pays well and they are generally OK, however im concerned this is the thin end of a wedge around general dickery and penny pincing...

That would be a firm no from me.

[Octoposse]

GiantEnemyCrab said:

That would be a firm no from me.

Absolutely - someone, somewhere, in the organisation has got their lucrative bonus and next promotion on the back of that cost saving. Now the next in line will implement something else to secure theirs.

Never matters what chaos and expense follows, as they’ll have moved on.

[ARHarh]

Octoposse said:

GiantEnemyCrab said:

That would be a firm no from me.

Absolutely - someone, somewhere, in the organisation has got their lucrative bonus and next promotion on the back of that cost saving. Now the next in line will implement something else to secure theirs.

Never matters what chaos and expense follows, as they’ll have moved on.

Or the chaos and expense will end up in someone else's budget

[shtu]

Countdown said:

No they can't. However (for me) it depends on what its used for

1. Authenticator app so i can log on remotely - no problem at all
2. Business calls and hot-spotting when I'm on the train - no thanks (if you need me to have a phone for business purposes you should contribute towards it)

ll that being said it would depend on how much i was paid and how much i enjoyed the job. If I loved it and was paid megabucks I wouldn't kick up a fuss over £20pcm

I would go with this broadly - the only work purpose I use my personal phone for is Google Authenticator for 2FA, a second device for that would be more of a nuisance to me than anything else. No expectation or requirement for calls, etc on work purposes.

Also - mandatory software installs, especially any sort of remote-wipe functionality is another red line. They want to manage the device, they can own it. No way would I allow my personal phone to be "managed" by my employer.

If you decide you're OK with continuing, get a dual-SIM phone, and keep your personal and work identities seperate, schedule work on\off times, etc.

If you decide not, make sure you stick to it and don't go down the rabbit-hole of being made to justify it. It's your phone, you get to choose.

KAgantua said:

company is Amercian (Which may explain the laissez-faire approach to HR and compensation matters!!)

AHA!

Might be worth pointing out to a few people that they can't compel UK staff to use their personal phones for business, and certainly not for free. The US mob have a habit of "forgetting" employment law is different elsewhere.

Edited by shtu on Friday 22 December 16:19

[KAgantua]

shtu said:

Countdown said:

No they can't. However (for me) it depends on what its used for

1. Authenticator app so i can log on remotely - no problem at all
2. Business calls and hot-spotting when I'm on the train - no thanks (if you need me to have a phone for business purposes you should contribute towards it)

ll that being said it would depend on how much i was paid and how much i enjoyed the job. If I loved it and was paid megabucks I wouldn't kick up a fuss over £20pcm

I would go with this broadly - the only work purpose I use my personal phone for is Google Authenticator for 2FA, a second device for that would be more of a nuisance to me than anything else. No expectation or requirement for calls, etc on work purposes.

Also - mandatory software installs, especially any sort of remote-wipe functionality is another red line. They want to manage the device, they can own it. No way would I allow my personal phone to be "managed" by my employer.

If you decide you're OK with continuing, get a dual-SIM phone, and keep your personal and work identities seperate, schedule work on\off times, etc.

If you decide not, make sure you stick to it and don't go down the rabbit-hole of being made to justify it. It's your phone, you get to choose.

KAgantua said:

company is Amercian (Which may explain the laissez-faire approach to HR and compensation matters!!)

AHA!

Might be worth pointing out to a few people that they can't compel UK staff to use their personal phones for business, and certainly not for free. The US mob have a habit of "forgetting" employment law is different elsewhere.

Edited by shtu on Friday 22 December 16:19

They do what they like. They recently got rid of the in country HR rep too!!

[craigjm]

shtu said:

AHA!

Might be worth pointing out to a few people that they can't compel UK staff to use their personal phones for business, and certainly not for free. The US mob have a habit of "forgetting" employment law is different elsewhere.

What employment law would they be on the wrong side of?

[QJumper]

KAgantua said:

however im concerned this is the thin end of a wedge around general dickery and penny pincing...

In my experience, it is.

[Alex Z]

GiantEnemyCrab said:

Wanganui said:

Yeah its the latter point (and the fact I have to have my personal phone no on my work sig) that bothers me.
Job pays well and they are generally OK, however im concerned this is the thin end of a wedge around general dickery and penny pincing...

That would be a firm no from me.

Same here. At my current employers they had long standing staff who had shared personal mobile numbers (their choice) but when a directive was sent round not long after I joined insisting everyone should include theirs in their email signature “so they could be contacted when needed” I made sure that was shot down very quickly.

Even so, a few of us found our bike numbers had been shared by HR or other staff, so we changed them and refused to let them know the replacement.

After a while, I got proper company phones sorted for those with a genuine business need.

In the OPs position I would point blank refuse and insist on a company handset instead.

[Paul Lazzaro]

Personally, I'd rather have one phone instead of two. My company pays an allowance and we use Teams, for which we each have a "land line" VOIP number.

I just use my land line number on all correspondence which dials to Teams, and set up a call forward on Teams to my mobile.

That way, it'll always ring on Teams first. If I'm out, it'll then forward to my mobile, but nobody sees my mobile number. When I'm on leave, I turn the call forwarding off.

[Jasandjules]

craigjm said:

What employment law would they be on the wrong side of?

We can start with unilaterally changing the term that has been removed from the contract about paying for the phone.

[21TonyK]

GiantEnemyCrab said:

Wanganui said:

Yeah its the latter point (and the fact I have to have my personal phone no on my work sig) that bothers me.
Job pays well and they are generally OK, however im concerned this is the thin end of a wedge around general dickery and penny pincing...

That would be a firm no from me.

And me. The co. I work for expects staff to use their personal phones for calls, texts WhatsApp etc. I made a real point of not giving my number out to the point people said I was difficult to contact.

One week later, company phone turns up. Still only have it on when I am working unless I am expecting something to happen.

[Countdown]

Jasandjules said:

craigjm said:

What employment law would they be on the wrong side of?

We can start with unilaterally changing the term that has been removed from the contract about paying for the phone.

In the OPs situation I can’t see anything that says it was contractual.

[RammyMP]

Paul Lazzaro said:

Personally, I'd rather have one phone instead of two. My company pays an allowance and we use Teams, for which we each have a "land line" VOIP number.

I just use my land line number on all correspondence which dials to Teams, and set up a call forward on Teams to my mobile.

That way, it'll always ring on Teams first. If I'm out, it'll then forward to my mobile, but nobody sees my mobile number. When I'm on leave, I turn the call forwarding off.

That’s not a bad idea but how do you return calls, is that through Teams?

[Jasandjules]

Countdown said:

In the OPs situation I can’t see anything that says it was contractual.

It is implied into the employment contract by virtue of the practice.

[Countdown]

Jasandjules said:

Countdown said:

In the OPs situation I can’t see anything that says it was contractual.

It is implied into the employment contract by virtue of the practice.

In that case it should be easy for the OP to get the allowance re-instated.

[Countdown]

RammyMP said:

Paul Lazzaro said:

Personally, I'd rather have one phone instead of two. My company pays an allowance and we use Teams, for which we each have a "land line" VOIP number.

I just use my land line number on all correspondence which dials to Teams, and set up a call forward on Teams to my mobile.

That way, it'll always ring on Teams first. If I'm out, it'll then forward to my mobile, but nobody sees my mobile number. When I'm on leave, I turn the call forwarding off.

That’s not a bad idea but how do you return calls, is that through Teams?

You can do (via the Teams App on your mobile). It's no different to calling via Whatsapp but obviously it uses your data allowance.

[Jasandjules]

Countdown said:

In that case it should be easy for the OP to get the allowance re-instated.

As you know, having rights and getting them are too different things. I have a number of US clients, the "discussions" we have are, interesting. I can tell them the law, I can tell them they will lose if this gets to a Tribunal etc.... But what they do anyways.......