Discrimination at work
Discussion
Seeking advice regarding my partner's situation. It seems like her line manager is targeting her. They made her cancel her birthday leave and now rejected her June leave due to work demands.
Meanwhile, her colleague enjoyed a 3-week vacation in Japan while my partner handled three people's workload alone. I'm considering calling her manager for an explanation since she's hesitant to confront them directly.
Meanwhile, her colleague enjoyed a 3-week vacation in Japan while my partner handled three people's workload alone. I'm considering calling her manager for an explanation since she's hesitant to confront them directly.
I suggest you stay out of it.
It can only be for her to have a chat with her line manager /HR department and maybe contruct a non accusational email setting out her issues.
On the face of it seems highly unusual to deny an employee leave and i say this as an employer. However I would add there are times when taking leave would be irresponsible but most individuals will know these pinch periods themselves.
It can only be for her to have a chat with her line manager /HR department and maybe contruct a non accusational email setting out her issues.
On the face of it seems highly unusual to deny an employee leave and i say this as an employer. However I would add there are times when taking leave would be irresponsible but most individuals will know these pinch periods themselves.
BMRed said:
Thanks all,
Will stay out of it. Have suggested she speaks to her manager and HR. What is doing my head in, is because she’s the only high performer on the team he constantly rejects her leave and expects her to be available when she is off the odd day.
Is he threatened by her possibly? Mrs 111R went through that once. She arrived at the company, made huge strides in improving things but her boss felt threatened by her (he was a disorganised idiot who thought he was one of the lads despite being 50) and despite senior corporate levels of thanks for her work and achievements, when her probation was up she was shown the door. Will stay out of it. Have suggested she speaks to her manager and HR. What is doing my head in, is because she’s the only high performer on the team he constantly rejects her leave and expects her to be available when she is off the odd day.
It's hard though as if you fall out with your boss you're essentially resigning (been there, did that). She needs to be really diplomatic not to fall into this 'trap' not matter how unfair it is.
Frimley111R said:
It's hard though as if you fall out with your boss you're essentially resigning (been there, did that). She needs to be really diplomatic not to fall into this 'trap' not matter how unfair it is.
This 100%If you think for one minute HR will be on your side...I've got bad news.
Making waves only ever ends bad for you. Also been there, done that.
The simple fact is - it's time for her to move on and find a new job...or suck it up.
As others have said stay out of it. You'll add nothing to the discussion & only undermine your wife.
Without knowing the nature of the business or other arrangements its impossible to know if rejecting leave in June next year is reasonable or not. It may be or may not. For example if there are 3 people to cover a role & 1 already has a leave approved if may not be unreasonable. If the business again has a particular deadline around that time it may not be unreasonable.
Without knowing the nature of the business or other arrangements its impossible to know if rejecting leave in June next year is reasonable or not. It may be or may not. For example if there are 3 people to cover a role & 1 already has a leave approved if may not be unreasonable. If the business again has a particular deadline around that time it may not be unreasonable.
Timothy Bucktu said:
This 100%
If you think for one minute HR will be on your side...I've got bad news.
Making waves only ever ends bad for you. Also been there, done that.
The simple fact is - it's time for her to move on and find a new job...or suck it up.
HR is there to protect the company, not necessarily bad managers who open them up to legal issues. HR will be on the side of the company...If you think for one minute HR will be on your side...I've got bad news.
Making waves only ever ends bad for you. Also been there, done that.
The simple fact is - it's time for her to move on and find a new job...or suck it up.
vaud said:
Timothy Bucktu said:
This 100%
If you think for one minute HR will be on your side...I've got bad news.
Making waves only ever ends bad for you. Also been there, done that.
The simple fact is - it's time for her to move on and find a new job...or suck it up.
HR is there to protect the company, not necessarily bad managers who open them up to legal issues. HR will be on the side of the company...If you think for one minute HR will be on your side...I've got bad news.
Making waves only ever ends bad for you. Also been there, done that.
The simple fact is - it's time for her to move on and find a new job...or suck it up.
Thanks everyone,
The worst part she’s on a team of five, only one person is off (3 days of the planned two weeks). We have just cancelled all the flights and hotels, as she doesn’t want to battle in work. Thankfully refunded everything minus the seat reservations at £500.
If it was me, I’d be looking for a new role. As it’s all for the blokes, they get preferential treatment.
The worst part she’s on a team of five, only one person is off (3 days of the planned two weeks). We have just cancelled all the flights and hotels, as she doesn’t want to battle in work. Thankfully refunded everything minus the seat reservations at £500.
If it was me, I’d be looking for a new role. As it’s all for the blokes, they get preferential treatment.
BMRed said:
Thanks everyone,
The worst part she’s on a team of five, only one person is off (3 days of the planned two weeks). We have just cancelled all the flights and hotels, as she doesn’t want to battle in work. Thankfully refunded everything minus the seat reservations at £500.
If it was me, I’d be looking for a new role. As it’s all for the blokes, they get preferential treatment.
Also consider getting her some coaching - assertiveness/dealing with conflict / difficult situations. And/or a mentor either at work or in a related field.The worst part she’s on a team of five, only one person is off (3 days of the planned two weeks). We have just cancelled all the flights and hotels, as she doesn’t want to battle in work. Thankfully refunded everything minus the seat reservations at £500.
If it was me, I’d be looking for a new role. As it’s all for the blokes, they get preferential treatment.
(I mean this as a positive approach)
Some really good advice here, how your partner proceeds now really depends on a few things, the main one being does she want to stay in this job at this company given how she's treated?
Her employer has given her sufficient notice to cancel her leave and appears to have given a reason (although it's obviously up for debate how busy they actually are) for the cancellation as work demands at that time. The amount of time in advance they've cancelled it would suggest it's a period they know will be busy perhaps? Although you've already gone and cancelled the booking, the financial loss should be discussed with her boss as depending on what her contract says her employer may be liable for some or part.
If the reasons for cancelling her leave aren't genuine then she could legally challenge them through a grievance and potentially claim for constructive dismissal. This is obviously the nuclear option and possibly not the best if she does want to remain in role and at the company.
Going forward either way it's really important everything is documented regardless of what she decides. So if there's a discussion about why her leave was cancelled, she should ask for an email to confirm the discussion. If that's not forthcoming from her manager, then she should email them herself with her summary of the conversation. This might be a one-off, but if not it's important she has a record of it.
I'd suggest the first thing is she discuss it with her manager, setting out the following:
- She's unhappy with having to cancel her leave.
- She'd like more information as to why it's been felt necessary given her understanding of staffing at that time. She'd like to know specifically what the demands will be at this time given it's so far in advance. (Give opportunity to clarify the situation in case there's something she's not aware of.)
- She'd like to know going forward what the requirements are for leave ie how many off at any one time, clashes to avoid with specific people etc to ensure she isn't in this situation again
- As a result of needing to cancel the leave, she's suffered a financial loss which she would like to know if the business will cover.
Once she's clarified those points, get or send an email summary of the discussion. If she's still unhappy then the next step I'd suggest would be to speak to ACAS for some impartial advice. This avoids going through HR and making the issue official. Once they've advised then she knows where she stands and can make a decision on whether to raise it with HR. She can then go back to ACAS after hearing back from HR and they'll advise on possible next steps.
Ultimately it may be the business has acted legally however it sounds like there's an issue with either the company or possibly individual manager around personal time vs working time. You mentioned she's expected to be available on days off, that absolutely should stop now. Easier said than done when you struggle with confidence I appreciate but once she starts drawing a line they should get the message.
Hope it works out for her.
Her employer has given her sufficient notice to cancel her leave and appears to have given a reason (although it's obviously up for debate how busy they actually are) for the cancellation as work demands at that time. The amount of time in advance they've cancelled it would suggest it's a period they know will be busy perhaps? Although you've already gone and cancelled the booking, the financial loss should be discussed with her boss as depending on what her contract says her employer may be liable for some or part.
If the reasons for cancelling her leave aren't genuine then she could legally challenge them through a grievance and potentially claim for constructive dismissal. This is obviously the nuclear option and possibly not the best if she does want to remain in role and at the company.
Going forward either way it's really important everything is documented regardless of what she decides. So if there's a discussion about why her leave was cancelled, she should ask for an email to confirm the discussion. If that's not forthcoming from her manager, then she should email them herself with her summary of the conversation. This might be a one-off, but if not it's important she has a record of it.
I'd suggest the first thing is she discuss it with her manager, setting out the following:
- She's unhappy with having to cancel her leave.
- She'd like more information as to why it's been felt necessary given her understanding of staffing at that time. She'd like to know specifically what the demands will be at this time given it's so far in advance. (Give opportunity to clarify the situation in case there's something she's not aware of.)
- She'd like to know going forward what the requirements are for leave ie how many off at any one time, clashes to avoid with specific people etc to ensure she isn't in this situation again
- As a result of needing to cancel the leave, she's suffered a financial loss which she would like to know if the business will cover.
Once she's clarified those points, get or send an email summary of the discussion. If she's still unhappy then the next step I'd suggest would be to speak to ACAS for some impartial advice. This avoids going through HR and making the issue official. Once they've advised then she knows where she stands and can make a decision on whether to raise it with HR. She can then go back to ACAS after hearing back from HR and they'll advise on possible next steps.
Ultimately it may be the business has acted legally however it sounds like there's an issue with either the company or possibly individual manager around personal time vs working time. You mentioned she's expected to be available on days off, that absolutely should stop now. Easier said than done when you struggle with confidence I appreciate but once she starts drawing a line they should get the message.
Hope it works out for her.
Was the trip that was cancelled for her birthday, i.e. on the leave that was accepted then cancelled rather than the June leave which was refused? If so, you could definitely go back and ask for the non refundable cost to be paid by the company, that's pretty reasonable and many companies do agree to that if they had to cancel leave for 'operational' reasons.
If it's for June when leave was only requested and not approved then I guess they'd say its your own risk if you pay for something before it's approved.
If it's for June when leave was only requested and not approved then I guess they'd say its your own risk if you pay for something before it's approved.
Red9zero said:
vaud said:
Timothy Bucktu said:
This 100%
If you think for one minute HR will be on your side...I've got bad news.
Making waves only ever ends bad for you. Also been there, done that.
The simple fact is - it's time for her to move on and find a new job...or suck it up.
HR is there to protect the company, not necessarily bad managers who open them up to legal issues. HR will be on the side of the company...If you think for one minute HR will be on your side...I've got bad news.
Making waves only ever ends bad for you. Also been there, done that.
The simple fact is - it's time for her to move on and find a new job...or suck it up.
We have the OPs view but have no idea of his partners role in the company. I said above that denying leave is very rare or certainly was in my company and suggesting she should not discuss with her line manager and/or HR is ridiculous.
Stating that HR is part of the company is blindingly obvious just like any other in house department it does however show a significant degree of ignorance as to their function. A good HR department will protect an employee as well as looking after the company. These objectives are not mutually exclusive.
C5_Steve said:
Some really good advice here, how your partner proceeds now really depends on a few things, the main one being does she want to stay in this job at this company given how she's treated?
Her employer has given her sufficient notice to cancel her leave and appears to have given a reason (although it's obviously up for debate how busy they actually are) for the cancellation as work demands at that time. The amount of time in advance they've cancelled it would suggest it's a period they know will be busy perhaps? Although you've already gone and cancelled the booking, the financial loss should be discussed with her boss as depending on what her contract says her employer may be liable for some or part.
If the reasons for cancelling her leave aren't genuine then she could legally challenge them through a grievance and potentially claim for constructive dismissal. This is obviously the nuclear option and possibly not the best if she does want to remain in role and at the company.
Going forward either way it's really important everything is documented regardless of what she decides. So if there's a discussion about why her leave was cancelled, she should ask for an email to confirm the discussion. If that's not forthcoming from her manager, then she should email them herself with her summary of the conversation. This might be a one-off, but if not it's important she has a record of it.
I'd suggest the first thing is she discuss it with her manager, setting out the following:
- She's unhappy with having to cancel her leave.
- She'd like more information as to why it's been felt necessary given her understanding of staffing at that time. She'd like to know specifically what the demands will be at this time given it's so far in advance. (Give opportunity to clarify the situation in case there's something she's not aware of.)
- She'd like to know going forward what the requirements are for leave ie how many off at any one time, clashes to avoid with specific people etc to ensure she isn't in this situation again
- As a result of needing to cancel the leave, she's suffered a financial loss which she would like to know if the business will cover.
Once she's clarified those points, get or send an email summary of the discussion. If she's still unhappy then the next step I'd suggest would be to speak to ACAS for some impartial advice. This avoids going through HR and making the issue official. Once they've advised then she knows where she stands and can make a decision on whether to raise it with HR. She can then go back to ACAS after hearing back from HR and they'll advise on possible next steps.
Ultimately it may be the business has acted legally however it sounds like there's an issue with either the company or possibly individual manager around personal time vs working time. You mentioned she's expected to be available on days off, that absolutely should stop now. Easier said than done when you struggle with confidence I appreciate but once she starts drawing a line they should get the message.
Hope it works out for her.
This is an excellent post with some really good advice. Her employer has given her sufficient notice to cancel her leave and appears to have given a reason (although it's obviously up for debate how busy they actually are) for the cancellation as work demands at that time. The amount of time in advance they've cancelled it would suggest it's a period they know will be busy perhaps? Although you've already gone and cancelled the booking, the financial loss should be discussed with her boss as depending on what her contract says her employer may be liable for some or part.
If the reasons for cancelling her leave aren't genuine then she could legally challenge them through a grievance and potentially claim for constructive dismissal. This is obviously the nuclear option and possibly not the best if she does want to remain in role and at the company.
Going forward either way it's really important everything is documented regardless of what she decides. So if there's a discussion about why her leave was cancelled, she should ask for an email to confirm the discussion. If that's not forthcoming from her manager, then she should email them herself with her summary of the conversation. This might be a one-off, but if not it's important she has a record of it.
I'd suggest the first thing is she discuss it with her manager, setting out the following:
- She's unhappy with having to cancel her leave.
- She'd like more information as to why it's been felt necessary given her understanding of staffing at that time. She'd like to know specifically what the demands will be at this time given it's so far in advance. (Give opportunity to clarify the situation in case there's something she's not aware of.)
- She'd like to know going forward what the requirements are for leave ie how many off at any one time, clashes to avoid with specific people etc to ensure she isn't in this situation again
- As a result of needing to cancel the leave, she's suffered a financial loss which she would like to know if the business will cover.
Once she's clarified those points, get or send an email summary of the discussion. If she's still unhappy then the next step I'd suggest would be to speak to ACAS for some impartial advice. This avoids going through HR and making the issue official. Once they've advised then she knows where she stands and can make a decision on whether to raise it with HR. She can then go back to ACAS after hearing back from HR and they'll advise on possible next steps.
Ultimately it may be the business has acted legally however it sounds like there's an issue with either the company or possibly individual manager around personal time vs working time. You mentioned she's expected to be available on days off, that absolutely should stop now. Easier said than done when you struggle with confidence I appreciate but once she starts drawing a line they should get the message.
Hope it works out for her.
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