Joining the Civil Service, what to look out for?
Discussion
I’ve just accepted an offer for an entry level role at UKHSA as I would like to step into Public Health, which is what I am currently studying at University. I have no prior experience in the Civil Service and I am jumping ship from an insurance consultancy which has little progression prospects and has an overworked, high turnover team with little morale.
I had to fight my way into getting flexible hours at my current employer, in fact I actually resigned and was then rehired when they finally accepted my terms, but I am now on a rolling contract which gives me no sick pay, no annual leave and no benefits. To me it is just paying the bills, I don’t dislike my role and my colleagues but its clearly poorly managed and growing too quickly. I’m seeing new faces every week and familiar faces dropping like flies.
I have no idea of what to expect as an AO in a massive campus. Currently I am working in a team of 30-40 at best in a tiny office, UKHSA has around 2,000+ at the last report.
Is it a good place to work? Am I going to be a dogsbody? I know there’s good progression which attracted me in the first place.
Lastly, when do you think I should give my intention to resign? They’re telling me they want to keep me on for another 3-4 months after Christmas, which is when I intended to resign (by refusing an extension). Or do I tell them as soon as I sign the contract for the new role? As a 20 year old student I have very little experience with office etiquette.
I had to fight my way into getting flexible hours at my current employer, in fact I actually resigned and was then rehired when they finally accepted my terms, but I am now on a rolling contract which gives me no sick pay, no annual leave and no benefits. To me it is just paying the bills, I don’t dislike my role and my colleagues but its clearly poorly managed and growing too quickly. I’m seeing new faces every week and familiar faces dropping like flies.
I have no idea of what to expect as an AO in a massive campus. Currently I am working in a team of 30-40 at best in a tiny office, UKHSA has around 2,000+ at the last report.
Is it a good place to work? Am I going to be a dogsbody? I know there’s good progression which attracted me in the first place.
Lastly, when do you think I should give my intention to resign? They’re telling me they want to keep me on for another 3-4 months after Christmas, which is when I intended to resign (by refusing an extension). Or do I tell them as soon as I sign the contract for the new role? As a 20 year old student I have very little experience with office etiquette.
MYOB said:
An AO with a degree? You will be doing boring admin work but progression is achievable (you can move to other Departments too). But it will be a fair number of years before you reach the levels that graduate enter into the Civil Service.
Surely you should apply to join via the Civil Service graduate scheme?
I haven’t got a degree yet. I am working towards one, but one of the reasons that swayed me was the possibility of having the rest of my degree funded + a funded master’sSurely you should apply to join via the Civil Service graduate scheme?
I am on a flexible online degree, the only reason I’m working here is because even on a max student loan there just isn’t enough money to live comfortably, I’ve always been working. In the past I was a delivery driver before moving in to insurance. I could gain valuable skills in this role.
UKHSA know I’m on a degree, they’re happy to offer me flexible working around my study. One benefit being remote working and the offer of compressed hours
It's generally polite to let your current employer know you're leaving as soon as possible, unless you think they'll dick you around in some way, in which case it should really depend on your notice period and/or your conscience.
UKHSA is, in my limited experience in the NHS/ health space, not hugely representative of the civil service as a whole, but it will depend massively on what job you're actually doing. An AO could be managing casework, or providing admin support for other people, depending on the complexity of the work. You're probably not going to be doing filing.
UKHSA is, in my limited experience in the NHS/ health space, not hugely representative of the civil service as a whole, but it will depend massively on what job you're actually doing. An AO could be managing casework, or providing admin support for other people, depending on the complexity of the work. You're probably not going to be doing filing.
E63eeeeee... said:
It's generally polite to let your current employer know you're leaving as soon as possible, unless you think they'll dick you around in some way, in which case it should really depend on your notice period and/or your conscience.
UKHSA is, in my limited experience in the NHS/ health space, not hugely representative of the civil service as a whole, but it will depend massively on what job you're actually doing. An AO could be managing casework, or providing admin support for other people, depending on the complexity of the work. You're probably not going to be doing filing.
It was either this or using my existing skills to be working for a solutions firm as junior Loss Adjuster/Adjusting Technician, there’s far more money in Loss Adjusting for now but I thought this would be more beneficial for my future career prospects. That and the adjusting firms seem to be dreadful places to work. I’ve interviewed for about 4 roles and declined 2 on the basis of contracts, the other 2 I was turned down.UKHSA is, in my limited experience in the NHS/ health space, not hugely representative of the civil service as a whole, but it will depend massively on what job you're actually doing. An AO could be managing casework, or providing admin support for other people, depending on the complexity of the work. You're probably not going to be doing filing.
All they’ve really told me is that I’m going to be using something called Q-Pulse and supporting more senior members as a administrator/technician. They have been quite vague about the whole thing.
As per leaving my current role, I imagine it would be relatively painless.
On the progression point, once you're in and pass your probation you'll have access to internal accelerated development schemes up to in-house entry to the Faststream. Normal routes for progression will depend on what skillset and experience you manage to pick up, and whether the organisation is expanding or contracting. Try not to get trapped into a job that can be automated or digitised, look for complex work or involvement in/ exposure to transferable experiences like policy, training, project management, digital or commercial. Try not to end up being one of a hundred people doing the same job, but if you are, specialise in something esoteric and become a subject matter expert so that you can at least show something different when you all compete for the same jobs.
The best career move I made was get involved in recruitment and interviewing while still fairly junior, but you'll probably need at least one promotion for that.
The best career move I made was get involved in recruitment and interviewing while still fairly junior, but you'll probably need at least one promotion for that.
Mate or two are CS and despite the JRM generalisations they are very knowledgable and switched on people (one even hinted that they were a Tory voter after a few wines!).
Get your foot in the door and make the most - mainly the pension which will make any private sector bod weep. Ukhsa are on a big drive at the minute.
You sound keen and open to learning which they will encourage and you will develop and progress upwards if that’s your game.
Given what I hear from the aforementioned, and not that the private sector is devoid of it, but you’ll see and hear an awful lot of maddening idiocy along the way!
Welcome to the world!
Get your foot in the door and make the most - mainly the pension which will make any private sector bod weep. Ukhsa are on a big drive at the minute.
You sound keen and open to learning which they will encourage and you will develop and progress upwards if that’s your game.
Given what I hear from the aforementioned, and not that the private sector is devoid of it, but you’ll see and hear an awful lot of maddening idiocy along the way!
Welcome to the world!
MYOB said:
In that case, as long as you’re prepared to starting at the bottom of the food chain, go for it as it seems to suit your needs for studying.
If you broaden your horizon and are prepared to move around the Civil Service, there’s no reasons why you can’t expect to apply for promotion to the next level every 2 years until you reach the more senior levels.
But this is location specific. For instance, it’s much easier in Whitehall to bounce around various departments to get promotions and experience. Outside of London, opportunities are more limited but not necessarily impossible.
You should be on flexible working pattern and can normally agree (with line manager) to work to a mutually acceptable pattern. This will depend on your area of work and if there are external factors that dictate your working pattern.
If I graduate and gain a master’s in the relevant discipline while still an AO or EO, am I able to jump several levels into a senior role (the equivalent of what I would be able to get as a professional in the private sector?)If you broaden your horizon and are prepared to move around the Civil Service, there’s no reasons why you can’t expect to apply for promotion to the next level every 2 years until you reach the more senior levels.
But this is location specific. For instance, it’s much easier in Whitehall to bounce around various departments to get promotions and experience. Outside of London, opportunities are more limited but not necessarily impossible.
You should be on flexible working pattern and can normally agree (with line manager) to work to a mutually acceptable pattern. This will depend on your area of work and if there are external factors that dictate your working pattern.
I feel like I am destined to be either a civil servant, a scientist, or a private consultant in the Public Health field. The biggest employers are UKHSA, local authorities, pharma/biotech, and the UN.
Many years ago I worked in the civil service for 4mths
Was initially a 4week role to assist something specific but I was transferred depts week 3 so knew I’d be staying. There was a three months extension. After that I had to sit a test to see if I made permanent, but I didn’t extend.
25 years ago but….
Loads of folk in personal relationships, I worked with husbands/wife’s/sons/daughters/girlfriend/boyfriends
(There were 4 in my intake - 2 were connected to people in the building which was how they got the job)
People everywhere only doing the minimum/clock watching & banking “minutes” if they ran over by in their flexi.
An odd mix of people, same office had folk in pinstripes & others in polo shorts doing the same job/level
There was a lot of resentment towards capable “youngsters” who got promoted ahead of others who weren’t capable but had been there ages.
Efficient use of public resources - stationary was cheap & rationed. Tea/coffee/sugar not provided, everyone had their own.
Cliques, a lot of them
All that - my experience but 25years ago.
Was initially a 4week role to assist something specific but I was transferred depts week 3 so knew I’d be staying. There was a three months extension. After that I had to sit a test to see if I made permanent, but I didn’t extend.
25 years ago but….
Loads of folk in personal relationships, I worked with husbands/wife’s/sons/daughters/girlfriend/boyfriends
(There were 4 in my intake - 2 were connected to people in the building which was how they got the job)
People everywhere only doing the minimum/clock watching & banking “minutes” if they ran over by in their flexi.
An odd mix of people, same office had folk in pinstripes & others in polo shorts doing the same job/level
There was a lot of resentment towards capable “youngsters” who got promoted ahead of others who weren’t capable but had been there ages.
Efficient use of public resources - stationary was cheap & rationed. Tea/coffee/sugar not provided, everyone had their own.
Cliques, a lot of them
All that - my experience but 25years ago.
Edited by AndyAudi on Thursday 26th October 19:59
V 02 said:
If I graduate and gain a master’s in the relevant discipline while still an AO or EO, am I able to jump several levels into a senior role (the equivalent of what I would be able to get as a professional in the private sector?)
I feel like I am destined to be either a civil servant, a scientist, or a private consultant in the Public Health field. The biggest employers are UKHSA, local authorities, pharma/biotech, and the UN.
Making the jump through the ranks can be one of the most frustrating things. Learning the intracies of the recruitment process is key. Just because you will have a degree doesn't mean you will get promoted. You need to be able to evidence the behaviours for the grade in a professional context.I feel like I am destined to be either a civil servant, a scientist, or a private consultant in the Public Health field. The biggest employers are UKHSA, local authorities, pharma/biotech, and the UN.
Its not impossible but can take a while. I have done band O to G7 in 6 years with approx 18months to 2 years in each role. Starting in a tax compliance support role then tax specialist, then into business architecture which is quite niche.
The general advice above is pretty accurate.
Maybe consider joining above AO if the roles are out there and you have relevant experience to get in at that grade?
V 02 said:
MYOB said:
In that case, as long as you’re prepared to starting at the bottom of the food chain, go for it as it seems to suit your needs for studying.
If you broaden your horizon and are prepared to move around the Civil Service, there’s no reasons why you can’t expect to apply for promotion to the next level every 2 years until you reach the more senior levels.
But this is location specific. For instance, it’s much easier in Whitehall to bounce around various departments to get promotions and experience. Outside of London, opportunities are more limited but not necessarily impossible.
You should be on flexible working pattern and can normally agree (with line manager) to work to a mutually acceptable pattern. This will depend on your area of work and if there are external factors that dictate your working pattern.
If I graduate and gain a master’s in the relevant discipline while still an AO or EO, am I able to jump several levels into a senior role (the equivalent of what I would be able to get as a professional in the private sector?)If you broaden your horizon and are prepared to move around the Civil Service, there’s no reasons why you can’t expect to apply for promotion to the next level every 2 years until you reach the more senior levels.
But this is location specific. For instance, it’s much easier in Whitehall to bounce around various departments to get promotions and experience. Outside of London, opportunities are more limited but not necessarily impossible.
You should be on flexible working pattern and can normally agree (with line manager) to work to a mutually acceptable pattern. This will depend on your area of work and if there are external factors that dictate your working pattern.
I feel like I am destined to be either a civil servant, a scientist, or a private consultant in the Public Health field. The biggest employers are UKHSA, local authorities, pharma/biotech, and the UN.
But the positives ... Good pension, flexible working, lots of opportunities for internal moves, decent annual leave and sickness benefit, they do everything by the book so usually employees are well protected.
Negatives.... expect below inflation pay rises if you stay in the same role for more than a year, no negotiation on salary, lots of red tape, high workload etc
Negatives.... expect below inflation pay rises if you stay in the same role for more than a year, no negotiation on salary, lots of red tape, high workload etc
I've had the unique privilege of working 'for' the civil service for the past 30 odd years but never 'in' it. So, looking from the outside in - whilst sort of being 'in'....
You will seldom find an employer that offers the same level of support and protection in the private sector. Rarely will you find a private sector employer willing to pay you same amount for the same level of intensity of work. And I think the sense of fulfilment and non financial reward is greater - you can and often are doing good work that makes a difference. Play your cards right, toe the line and sink yourself in and you can look forward to a stress-free retirement.
But......
Very easy to become institutionalised. The longer you stay, the harder it is to leave even if there's a golden offer on the table from a corporate.
You could turn up at 7.30am, work to 6pm, do brilliant, innovate work that goes beyond expectation or rock up at 9.05, head off at 4.55 and do just what's needed. Either way, on the 25th of each month, the same amount of money goes into your account. No matter how dedicated, most gravitate towards the latter and it's often said that in the Civil Service, people end up doing the best second class job they can.
For some, it's ideal. For other's, it's a curse. And there's a bit of grey in-between.
You will seldom find an employer that offers the same level of support and protection in the private sector. Rarely will you find a private sector employer willing to pay you same amount for the same level of intensity of work. And I think the sense of fulfilment and non financial reward is greater - you can and often are doing good work that makes a difference. Play your cards right, toe the line and sink yourself in and you can look forward to a stress-free retirement.
But......
Very easy to become institutionalised. The longer you stay, the harder it is to leave even if there's a golden offer on the table from a corporate.
You could turn up at 7.30am, work to 6pm, do brilliant, innovate work that goes beyond expectation or rock up at 9.05, head off at 4.55 and do just what's needed. Either way, on the 25th of each month, the same amount of money goes into your account. No matter how dedicated, most gravitate towards the latter and it's often said that in the Civil Service, people end up doing the best second class job they can.
For some, it's ideal. For other's, it's a curse. And there's a bit of grey in-between.
V 02 said:
If I graduate and gain a master’s in the relevant discipline while still an AO or EO, am I able to jump several levels into a senior role (the equivalent of what I would be able to get as a professional in the private sector?)
I feel like I am destined to be either a civil servant, a scientist, or a private consultant in the Public Health field. The biggest employers are UKHSA, local authorities, pharma/biotech, and the UN.
You'll likely struggle to skip grades, but if you're driven and good at your role then you can get through the grades quite quickly. My wife has gone from EO to G7 in less than two years because she is exceptionally clever and works extremely hard in a technical area. I feel like I am destined to be either a civil servant, a scientist, or a private consultant in the Public Health field. The biggest employers are UKHSA, local authorities, pharma/biotech, and the UN.
It also depends a lot on the size of the organisation you're in and how specialist it is. I am also a civil servant and I have been an HEO for nearly 4 years now, and no real chance of promotion any time soon. however I'm in an engineering operational delivery role so I get paid almost as much as my wife, despite being two grades lower and with zero line management responsibilities
It was 10-15 years ago I last worked with the CS so may be a it of out date but...
The pension deals aren't anywhere near as good these days as a lot of people think they, so take a good look at it.
Definitely look in to any accelerated new graduate schemes once you graduate. We had a lad on one of the schemes, doing 3 month postings to different areas learning a lot about not just how different departments worked, but what he wanted to do. We had him building an IED factory and a drug lab
(for search teams to know what they were looking for).
You will need to actively seek advancement as internal promotion can be slow, and pay rises tend to be low, a lot of new grads did a few years to build up some experience and then buggered off to industry where they could earn more money, others applied for other jobs internally at higher grades, some spent 20 years in the same grade moaning about how thier pay rises were crap.
The pension deals aren't anywhere near as good these days as a lot of people think they, so take a good look at it.
Definitely look in to any accelerated new graduate schemes once you graduate. We had a lad on one of the schemes, doing 3 month postings to different areas learning a lot about not just how different departments worked, but what he wanted to do. We had him building an IED factory and a drug lab
(for search teams to know what they were looking for).You will need to actively seek advancement as internal promotion can be slow, and pay rises tend to be low, a lot of new grads did a few years to build up some experience and then buggered off to industry where they could earn more money, others applied for other jobs internally at higher grades, some spent 20 years in the same grade moaning about how thier pay rises were crap.
After 30 years in the private sector I've recently joined the civil service.
The pay is excellent for what I do, holiday/pension equally so. I've completed an ADC assessment for the next promotion which is transferable throughout much of the CS. I'd be asking to do this ASAP as it's the key to promotion at senior levels.
Not sure if you need to be vetted but needless to say the more stringent it is the better the remuneration.
Keep yourself positive amongst the beauracracy, get a good reputation and you can aim for contractor roles on £850 a day in the right area.
The pay is excellent for what I do, holiday/pension equally so. I've completed an ADC assessment for the next promotion which is transferable throughout much of the CS. I'd be asking to do this ASAP as it's the key to promotion at senior levels.
Not sure if you need to be vetted but needless to say the more stringent it is the better the remuneration.
Keep yourself positive amongst the beauracracy, get a good reputation and you can aim for contractor roles on £850 a day in the right area.
I have been a civil servant for almost 8 years in total, though not consecutively. I started as an EO myself (apprentice), I then left for the private sector as there was no promotion opportunities for my specialist role in the entire civil service at the time. I then rejoined a year or so later when one came up (SEO). Since then I have moved to another Department on a level transfer and was promoted shortly after to G7 where I still am now after 4 years.
I am about to hand my notice in though after accepting an offer from a private sector organisation (banking), purely for the money/benefits as I'm at the maximum of my pay band and absolutely no progression available now without going to a management role which I don't want to do, yet. The civil service is a great place to work in my experience. As others have already mentioned, the generous pension, flexibility and security is hard to come by elsewhere. It can be very Department, directorate and even line manager specific though in terms of how much you can expect to gain from the role. However, pass your probation, sign up to civil service jobs website (internal + external) and apply for anything and everything (within reason of course) and go from there. I'm assuming based on your past experience, current study and UKHSA experience (eventually), you won't find it difficult to progress to HEO/SEO within 1-2 years and then G7 within another 2-4 (depending on role).
Another thing that often gets overlooked and I'm sure some will disagree but in my experience, working for Government Department(s) at any level, although more so at more senior levels looks really good on your CV, especially to other large private sector organisations. You can use it as a great springboard and even useful in future salary negotiations due to the pension/benefits.
I am about to hand my notice in though after accepting an offer from a private sector organisation (banking), purely for the money/benefits as I'm at the maximum of my pay band and absolutely no progression available now without going to a management role which I don't want to do, yet. The civil service is a great place to work in my experience. As others have already mentioned, the generous pension, flexibility and security is hard to come by elsewhere. It can be very Department, directorate and even line manager specific though in terms of how much you can expect to gain from the role. However, pass your probation, sign up to civil service jobs website (internal + external) and apply for anything and everything (within reason of course) and go from there. I'm assuming based on your past experience, current study and UKHSA experience (eventually), you won't find it difficult to progress to HEO/SEO within 1-2 years and then G7 within another 2-4 (depending on role).
Another thing that often gets overlooked and I'm sure some will disagree but in my experience, working for Government Department(s) at any level, although more so at more senior levels looks really good on your CV, especially to other large private sector organisations. You can use it as a great springboard and even useful in future salary negotiations due to the pension/benefits.
I found this guide to civil service grades and the relevant pay bands https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgove...
This may be useful for others who like me have never seriously looked at the civil service for work.
I'm actually surprised at how poor the pay is other than for SCS3, and how few of those positions exist (for example, HMRC has 10 such staff per https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/hmrc-an... )
This may be useful for others who like me have never seriously looked at the civil service for work.
I'm actually surprised at how poor the pay is other than for SCS3, and how few of those positions exist (for example, HMRC has 10 such staff per https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/hmrc-an... )
Only on PH is a pay band up to £162,500 considered "poor" 
UK average new graduate is £24k, is EO post a new grad role?
ETA: Google just turned up a DE&S job advert for graduate scheme engineering job at £28.8k, with employer pension contribution of 27%, that's a much better pension than I thought they had these days.
UK average new graduate is £24k, is EO post a new grad role?
ETA: Google just turned up a DE&S job advert for graduate scheme engineering job at £28.8k, with employer pension contribution of 27%, that's a much better pension than I thought they had these days.
Edited by RizzoTheRat on Tuesday 31st October 10:15
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