Discussion
Found out last week I was going to be put on a PIP which came as a surprise as my performance has not been questioned at any time.
Had a call with HR and questioned the process, US company, asked if I should have been offered the chance of having someone join the PIP meeting and was told they need to speak to a UK employement lawyer to check.
Since then received notification that the process was correctly followed but they are restarting the PIP meeting and if I want to invite a colleague I can.
Having never been in this position wondering if anyone can shed any light.
Only been in the role for 11 months, company is goin through a tough time having missed targets for the last few quarters, and have sacked off a large part of the US team.
Had a call with HR and questioned the process, US company, asked if I should have been offered the chance of having someone join the PIP meeting and was told they need to speak to a UK employement lawyer to check.
Since then received notification that the process was correctly followed but they are restarting the PIP meeting and if I want to invite a colleague I can.
Having never been in this position wondering if anyone can shed any light.
Only been in the role for 11 months, company is goin through a tough time having missed targets for the last few quarters, and have sacked off a large part of the US team.
Have you been told what the PIP is for? Its not always about KPI measured performance targets. It could be easy to fix things such as starting work late, compliance with certain compulsory admin tasks that are are mandatory. In any case they need to work with you to achieve the improvement.
Hate to say it but you've been there 11 months and so have no protection or comeback. Being a US company who are more used to fire at will policies I'm surprised they have even bothered to instigate a PIP process and not just let you go.
This isn't personal and likely not related to your performance at all. They are just cutting headcount cheaply.
I would update your CV and get the f
k out of there sharpish.
Unless you can prove they are letting you go due to protected characteristics you can't do anything whether they have followed the correct process or not.
This isn't personal and likely not related to your performance at all. They are just cutting headcount cheaply.
I would update your CV and get the f
k out of there sharpish. Unless you can prove they are letting you go due to protected characteristics you can't do anything whether they have followed the correct process or not.
PIP is based on one component completely out my control, I get the feeling it’s more a case of needing to cut heads.
2 of the 3 elements listed on the PIP are things I can do with immediate effect, like introducing my line manager to my main contacts. However to me this is strange as no reason my line manager would need these introductions unless they want me out.
This leads me to think it’s not a performance improvement plan but instead a way to make me go.
US has had a 300 people given the boot.
In Europe there’s only 12 of us, me and 1 other are both on the pip process, we started within weeks of each other.
All other European colleagues have been here a while with the shortest tenure being 4 years.
I have not been given a copy of the pip and no signed anything yet as was told they need to double check with a lawyer before sending me the document which I need to sign and agree to.
2 of the 3 elements listed on the PIP are things I can do with immediate effect, like introducing my line manager to my main contacts. However to me this is strange as no reason my line manager would need these introductions unless they want me out.
This leads me to think it’s not a performance improvement plan but instead a way to make me go.
US has had a 300 people given the boot.
In Europe there’s only 12 of us, me and 1 other are both on the pip process, we started within weeks of each other.
All other European colleagues have been here a while with the shortest tenure being 4 years.
I have not been given a copy of the pip and no signed anything yet as was told they need to double check with a lawyer before sending me the document which I need to sign and agree to.
Yes as I said above you're being fked off and they are trying to go through process to cover themselves even though they don't need to due to your length of service.
If you can financially, I would resign immediately. Its far better to say you jumped from a sinking ship to have to explain why you were pushed.
I've had some experience in this area having been taken over by a US firm. They are fking brutal and you're nothing to them but a line on a spreadsheet.
ked off and they are trying to go through process to cover themselves even though they don't need to due to your length of service. If you can financially, I would resign immediately. Its far better to say you jumped from a sinking ship to have to explain why you were pushed.
I've had some experience in this area having been taken over by a US firm. They are f
king brutal and you're nothing to them but a line on a spreadsheet. Very few people pass a PIP sadly and from what you've said they wanting to cut numbers.
As pointed out get in front the PIP, so update CV, LinkedIn etc and get out before you are pushed out as at 11 months service you'll have no protection.
Lastly, HR is not your friend, it is there to look after the interests of your employer, not you.
As pointed out get in front the PIP, so update CV, LinkedIn etc and get out before you are pushed out as at 11 months service you'll have no protection.
Lastly, HR is not your friend, it is there to look after the interests of your employer, not you.
Agree with above except I’d stay in the job while looking for others.
If I am your prospective new employer I’d be more likely to make negative assumptions if you’re currently without a job than in one. Such as that you couldn’t hack it so quit (maybe you’ll do the same to me?), or that there’s something else at play (health issues, etc.)
And then if it comes to making you an offer, I’m more likely to think you’ll take any offer through desperation.
In summary… play the game, do the pip while looking for new job
If I am your prospective new employer I’d be more likely to make negative assumptions if you’re currently without a job than in one. Such as that you couldn’t hack it so quit (maybe you’ll do the same to me?), or that there’s something else at play (health issues, etc.)
And then if it comes to making you an offer, I’m more likely to think you’ll take any offer through desperation.
In summary… play the game, do the pip while looking for new job
m3cs said:
Agree with above except I’d stay in the job while looking for others.
If I am your prospective new employer I’d be more likely to make negative assumptions if you’re currently without a job than in one. Such as that you couldn’t hack it so quit (maybe you’ll do the same to me?), or that there’s something else at play (health issues, etc.)
And then if it comes to making you an offer, I’m more likely to think you’ll take any offer through desperation.
In summary… play the game, do the pip while looking for new job
Yes, but the OP should be mindful of the timelines of the PIP. Because going to a new employer and saying the reason you left the last one is because you failed a PIP and was sacked is the worst possible situation. Its easy to explain that large cuts were being made so I decided to leave on my own timeline and have some time with the family and look for a new roleIf I am your prospective new employer I’d be more likely to make negative assumptions if you’re currently without a job than in one. Such as that you couldn’t hack it so quit (maybe you’ll do the same to me?), or that there’s something else at play (health issues, etc.)
And then if it comes to making you an offer, I’m more likely to think you’ll take any offer through desperation.
In summary… play the game, do the pip while looking for new job
Scabutz said:
Yes, but the OP should be mindful of the timelines of the PIP. Because going to a new employer and saying the reason you left the last one is because you failed a PIP and was sacked is the worst possible situation. Its easy to explain that large cuts were being made so I decided to leave on my own timeline and have some time with the family and look for a new role
I never said they should say they got let go due to a PIP? OP: Just say you left.From the sounds of it he’s working for a US corporate and most if not of these companies all won’t give references these days. All they will do is confirm your job role and tenure dates. So new employer won’t know about the PIP.
m3cs said:
Scabutz said:
Yes, but the OP should be mindful of the timelines of the PIP. Because going to a new employer and saying the reason you left the last one is because you failed a PIP and was sacked is the worst possible situation. Its easy to explain that large cuts were being made so I decided to leave on my own timeline and have some time with the family and look for a new role
I never said they should say they got let go due to a PIP? OP: Just say you left.From the sounds of it he’s working for a US corporate and most if not of these companies all won’t give references these days. All they will do is confirm your job role and tenure dates. So new employer won’t know about the PIP.
Started to update my CV today.
I presume it’s not worth trying to get legal advice to ensure they follow the correct process then?
RZ1 said:
I presume it’s not worth trying to get legal advice to ensure they follow the correct process then?
Probably not because less than 2 years service you generally have no come back for unfair dismissal, there are some exceptions to the 2 years but these are for specific circumstances.RZ1 said:
So actually this is a good point, having never been in this position was not sure what the process is and whether that information will be shared in a reference.
Started to update my CV today.
I presume it’s not worth trying to get legal advice to ensure they follow the correct process then?
You can ensure they follow the correct process in order to buy you the time to get a job offer elsewhere. Started to update my CV today.
I presume it’s not worth trying to get legal advice to ensure they follow the correct process then?
However you will be provided (IMHO) with a PIP with subjective and not SMART criteria which you will not be able to meet........
At that point, in the absence of another job, then it will be sensible to lodge a Grievance against the PIP.. THat will add some delay....
I think only you can decide what to do here. If you genuinely don't think you should be on a PIP, then the writing is probably on the wall for reasons that have already been said.
For what it's worth, I've put quite a few staff through PIPs. All except one still work for me. They do have a place and a use, and genuinely intentioned employers don't just use them as a tool to manage someone out of the business.
For what it's worth, I've put quite a few staff through PIPs. All except one still work for me. They do have a place and a use, and genuinely intentioned employers don't just use them as a tool to manage someone out of the business.
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