100% Remote working - Red Flag? What do people think?
Discussion
Afternoon all,
I'm currently applying for jobs (Software Sales), and as yet, I've not seen a single vacancy requiring 100% time in the office, but have seen a handful that are 100% remote only. The weirdest one yet was one I spoke to today who, despite actually having an office in London, have still made all their roles 100% remote!!! I can only assume they've downsized to just a handful of meeting rooms at the office to save costs or something.
I've obviously worked 100% remotely during Covid, and I've not been full time in an office since 2010 or maybe even earlier, but even so I can't imagine ever working for a company that actively chose 100% remote as a strategy.
What do others think?
To be clear, this isn't about some people working 100% remote. I get that some people prefer that, or maybe geography demands it. My thought is more about the company imposing it overall.
Of course, when I do get a new job, I'll be going into it with many years' experience of the workplace, and I'm not shy about going looking for people to help me out, but even so, I've always found I've learnt as much about anything new (company, product, job, etc) informally by overhearing conversations around me in the office or whatever, and I really worry for my kids' generation that if they end up in 100% remote roles, they'll be missing out on an absolutely vast amount of the learning I had in my early work years, in much the same way that going to Uni can be as much about learning to live independently as it is about studying the degree.
I'm fortunate in that the number of roles I've seen that are 100% remote is a tiny percentage of the total, and as yet hasn't included anything I'd really want, so it's easy to stick to a policy of not applying for remote-only roles, as the more I think about it, the more I see it as a massive red flag indicator that the company doesn't care about its employees.
I'm currently applying for jobs (Software Sales), and as yet, I've not seen a single vacancy requiring 100% time in the office, but have seen a handful that are 100% remote only. The weirdest one yet was one I spoke to today who, despite actually having an office in London, have still made all their roles 100% remote!!! I can only assume they've downsized to just a handful of meeting rooms at the office to save costs or something.
I've obviously worked 100% remotely during Covid, and I've not been full time in an office since 2010 or maybe even earlier, but even so I can't imagine ever working for a company that actively chose 100% remote as a strategy.
What do others think?
To be clear, this isn't about some people working 100% remote. I get that some people prefer that, or maybe geography demands it. My thought is more about the company imposing it overall.
Of course, when I do get a new job, I'll be going into it with many years' experience of the workplace, and I'm not shy about going looking for people to help me out, but even so, I've always found I've learnt as much about anything new (company, product, job, etc) informally by overhearing conversations around me in the office or whatever, and I really worry for my kids' generation that if they end up in 100% remote roles, they'll be missing out on an absolutely vast amount of the learning I had in my early work years, in much the same way that going to Uni can be as much about learning to live independently as it is about studying the degree.
I'm fortunate in that the number of roles I've seen that are 100% remote is a tiny percentage of the total, and as yet hasn't included anything I'd really want, so it's easy to stick to a policy of not applying for remote-only roles, as the more I think about it, the more I see it as a massive red flag indicator that the company doesn't care about its employees.
My place is 100% remote and I enjoy it and miss nothing other than the odd beer after work of being in the office. Recruited lots of people, some junior and some have progressed, one in particular from no experience to Manager in 24mths.
There are some poeple for whom it doesn't work out though and they are better suited to "in office" roles.
There are some poeple for whom it doesn't work out though and they are better suited to "in office" roles.
Not necessarily the case that the company doesn't care about employees by being fully remote, it's about striking a balance.
If you miss or need the social interaction to 'ideate' and problem solve , that might not be for you.
I work for a company where 95% of the developers work from home, have regular zoom/webex meetings and do get together physically in regional offices monthly. Seem's a good balance for some.
Maybe some well placed questions around team interaction during the interview is needed?
If you miss or need the social interaction to 'ideate' and problem solve , that might not be for you.
I work for a company where 95% of the developers work from home, have regular zoom/webex meetings and do get together physically in regional offices monthly. Seem's a good balance for some.
Maybe some well placed questions around team interaction during the interview is needed?
sly fox said:
Not necessarily the case that the company doesn't care about employees by being fully remote, it's about striking a balance.
If you miss or need the social interaction to 'ideate' and problem solve , that might not be for you.
I work for a company where 95% of the developers work from home, have regular zoom/webex meetings and do get together physically in regional offices monthly. Seem's a good balance for some.
Maybe some well placed questions around team interaction during the interview is needed?
How can you strike a balance with an absolute?If you miss or need the social interaction to 'ideate' and problem solve , that might not be for you.
I work for a company where 95% of the developers work from home, have regular zoom/webex meetings and do get together physically in regional offices monthly. Seem's a good balance for some.
Maybe some well placed questions around team interaction during the interview is needed?
I said in my first post that I realise that plenty of individuals are happy being 100% remote, and if an employer wants to allow that, great. It's enforcing it on everyone that makes me question them as an employer to the point that I wouldn't want to work for them.
It's easy as well for some job types, and software devs are right up there. I'd put something like Customer Success at the other end of the scale. A newbie - especially if they're lacking in experience overall - is always going to be at a huge disadvantage.
I fear we'll end up with companies who the bare minimum to develop their employees, relying instead on the cost savings from not having offices to be able to dangle a carrot to poach experienced staff from the companies who do put the effort in.
Kermit power said:
The weirdest one yet was one I spoke to today who, despite actually having an office in London, have still made all their roles 100% remote!!!
That is really common still. I would imagine they'd allow anyone in if they expressed interest, but most likely say it's 100% remote as the office space is designated for specific/niche roles or those who need to be in the building.I've been in a role for 6 months which is fully remote. It's ok, great flexibility - I've just been out for nearly 1.5 hours at the gym and now watching Netflix. But I do work hard... I just do it through the day in 2-3 hour bursts and often work early/later than usual due to no commute.
You're right about not over hearing conversations. I do miss that and also feel quite isolated sometimes. But that is my company culture - it's not great for social stuff or forging relationships even with people on the other side of the globe
Just to pick up on your red flag point - look for information on the company. Many companies who went 100% remote did so with an extensive programme on wellbeing, processes and culture enhancements to make sure their employees felt valued and were happy.
However again it still doesn't suit everyone. I imagine characters such as those who crave social interaction and acceptance as part of their "fit" at work will never get on in a 100% remote setting.
However again it still doesn't suit everyone. I imagine characters such as those who crave social interaction and acceptance as part of their "fit" at work will never get on in a 100% remote setting.
My job is currently up to 100% remote. There is an office but going in is entirely optional. It's only 10 miles for me so I've been in a few times but others in the company are hundreds of miles away and will only come down for special events. The office isn't big enough to accommodate everyone.
So the place is "remote first" with regular interactions on Zoom and slack with video enabled by default.
My son just started and apprenticeship last year. He is almost always WFH now but for the first 3 months he was going into the office nearly all the time so maybe to onboard new starters there should be a period of office work.
So the place is "remote first" with regular interactions on Zoom and slack with video enabled by default.
My son just started and apprenticeship last year. He is almost always WFH now but for the first 3 months he was going into the office nearly all the time so maybe to onboard new starters there should be a period of office work.
Edited by Aunty Pasty on Thursday 27th July 15:03
VeeReihenmotor6 said:
My place is 100% remote and I enjoy it and miss nothing other than the odd beer after work of being in the office. Recruited lots of people, some junior and some have progressed, one in particular from no experience to Manager in 24mths.
There are some poeple for whom it doesn't work out though and they are better suited to "in office" roles.
ive been WFH for 2 + years now and cannot stand sitting alone all day week after week. its turned me into a negative whingebag. constantly wound up, bored and aggravated, There are some poeple for whom it doesn't work out though and they are better suited to "in office" roles.
what am i missing? how do you do it?
Mirinjawbro said:
ive been WFH for 2 + years now and cannot stand sitting alone all day week after week. its turned me into a negative whingebag. constantly wound up, bored and aggravated,
what am i missing? how do you do it?
I think it’s different for different folks. what am i missing? how do you do it?
For me, I really enjoy the flexibility of wfh and would find it very tough to do anything else now.
But it takes care not to get into a bit of a rut and if I’m not careful, I can go the whole week without interacting with anyone IRL and the wife notices my behaviour changing !
What I have found is that working from a coffee shop is good for a change of scenery but doesn’t change the interaction piece much.
I find time for golf midweek lunchtimes which gets me out and meeting people.
I have also used lunchclub as a way to speak to people once a week and it’s been quite interesting. I also do various work related meet-ups and these are pretty decent events. I definitely respond well to an in person event and it gives me way more energy and motivation etc.
As long as you remember to put the effort in to making wfh work, it’s great
Mirinjawbro said:
ive been WFH for 2 + years now and cannot stand sitting alone all day week after week. its turned me into a negative whingebag. constantly wound up, bored and aggravated,
what am i missing? how do you do it?
Funny as sitting in an office, stuck with some people I did not like for 8+ hrs a day made me constantly wound up too.... the interruptions, pointless conversations, listening to other people eat, having to pay an interest to people I'd otherwise never talk to, paying money to get into the prison (sorry office) what am i missing? how do you do it?
Mirinjawbro said:
ive been WFH for 2 + years now and cannot stand sitting alone all day week after week. its turned me into a negative whingebag. constantly wound up, bored and aggravated,
what am i missing? how do you do it?
My experience of it was awful. what am i missing? how do you do it?
I suppose if somebody finds the work or "work" interesting and enjoys teams meetings then it could be ok. Many offices are fairly dull places too, especially if they are full of people who don't like people.
Where you live may make a difference. If you like getting outside at lunchtimes and/or before/after work, then living somewhere green and pleasant may be better than a big city.
d helps 
T1547 said:
I would have thought most external/field/area sales roles are 100% remote?
We have sales people all over the UK and central office in Birmingham - no way everyone could work in an office (I don’t and wouldn’t want to be in one) due to distance from hq.
I suspect it depends what you're selling.We have sales people all over the UK and central office in Birmingham - no way everyone could work in an office (I don’t and wouldn’t want to be in one) due to distance from hq.
If it's Enterprise software, so many clients are in and around London anyway that a lot of sellers will be in the office at least a day or two per week.
digger_R said:
On the same topic, where are people searching for remote only jobs these days? It's been a few years since I was looking and would be interested to see how my market looks. Field is Software and systems/ tech consulting
LinkedIn. You can filter on remote or hybrid roles I go into the office pretty much every day, even if I'm the only one there. If I WFH I feel like I'm dossing. Years ago, when I worked at Motorola, we studied commuting habits. We were looking at how people might use future devices. It turns out that the perfect commute is a 10 minute walk. It's far better than WFH. Second was a 10 minute drive.
Mirinjawbro said:
ive been WFH for 2 + years now and cannot stand sitting alone all day week after week. its turned me into a negative whingebag. constantly wound up, bored and aggravated,
what am i missing? how do you do it?
I'm similar actually and only 6 months into this WFH stuff. I think for me it's not WFH that's the issue, it is that the culture of my company, and the geographic location of people are non-UK. So I feel even more distanced from them. what am i missing? how do you do it?
A bit like you I have a lot of days where I'm annoyed and bored. I even get annoyed when I'm asked to do something by someone outside my team - but tbf it's usually because it's not my role yet I am having to do it as we are understaffed on my team. I'm not usually like this, but it's because it's all messages through teams from some random I've never spoken to before.
I have done things to help me:
1) In Outlook I have deliberately blocked time out everyday for lunch. I also block time out for random work stuff, such as 10-1pm: Finish report. Often I don't even do it but it helps to mentally have space there allocated and ready. Also if you're asked to organise a meeting it reminds you that you've still got that report ... also shows people you're busy at certain points
2) Most days, often around 1030 or 11am I will go out to the gym. I don't talk to anyone but it's nice to just be out and around people. Some days I'll go to the shops for a look around or a walk
3) Forums like this help massively, where I can vent and air my frustrations. One thing I am really struggling with in my job is that as it is WFH you don't make those really trusted relationships. You know the sorts where you can really be honest with someone or talk without any barriers. My company has announced "restructuring" and in any other role I'd say to my work mate "Oi Dave, what's your thought here?" and he's be honest. Now it's all over teams, some people I have never even seen on video, only heard their voice.
I like WFH but I also want an office option and UK based colleagues.
Will give it 6 more months and then look to move on. I have thought about leaving now but I am not UNhappy so to speak, just a bit frustrated.
I also considered contracting work (IT Industry) but I'm not sure I want the temporary nature of it all. I quite like the permanency of a salary, sick leave, annual leave, longevity
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