Recruiters - Why aren't you questioning this?
Discussion
Just waded through the recent adverts on a Job Board.
Virtually all have a shopping list of requirements (skillset & targets to achieve in the role).
I then read the bio of the recruiters who have advertised. Most aged 40+ with extensive experience.
So my first thought is why don't you manage the expectations of your clients.
You are offering a 3 month role with a "shooting for the moon objective".
At best you are setting up the client with a zero amount of CV's to look at.
At worst you are setting up the client with a huge disappointment in 3 months time with no possibility of repeat business for yourself!
Virtually all have a shopping list of requirements (skillset & targets to achieve in the role).
I then read the bio of the recruiters who have advertised. Most aged 40+ with extensive experience.
So my first thought is why don't you manage the expectations of your clients.
You are offering a 3 month role with a "shooting for the moon objective".
At best you are setting up the client with a zero amount of CV's to look at.
At worst you are setting up the client with a huge disappointment in 3 months time with no possibility of repeat business for yourself!
Role probably doesn't exist and it's just CV harvesting.
Or...
The company want all of these skills, the recruiter (a good recruiter) would have probably already explained that you won't find anyone with all of those skills, company doesn't listen and the advert goes live.
You also have to understand that a recruiter will only have to find 3-5 people to interview (that's all the client wants) so CV's land get put through an automated process (word/phrase matching), as soon as they have enough CV's to put forward that's it done for them generally, they'll call to confirm you're not an idiot and go through the CV to ensure you're qualified, but that'll be it generally.
Or...
The company want all of these skills, the recruiter (a good recruiter) would have probably already explained that you won't find anyone with all of those skills, company doesn't listen and the advert goes live.
You also have to understand that a recruiter will only have to find 3-5 people to interview (that's all the client wants) so CV's land get put through an automated process (word/phrase matching), as soon as they have enough CV's to put forward that's it done for them generally, they'll call to confirm you're not an idiot and go through the CV to ensure you're qualified, but that'll be it generally.
Freakuk said:
Role probably doesn't exist and it's just CV harvesting.
Or...
The company want all of these skills, the recruiter (a good recruiter) would have probably already explained that you won't find anyone with all of those skills, company doesn't listen and the advert goes live.
You also have to understand that a recruiter will only have to find 3-5 people to interview (that's all the client wants) so CV's land get put through an automated process (word/phrase matching), as soon as they have enough CV's to put forward that's it done for them generally, they'll call to confirm you're not an idiot and go through the CV to ensure you're qualified, but that'll be it generally.
Proving that you know absolutely zero about recruitment. Or...
The company want all of these skills, the recruiter (a good recruiter) would have probably already explained that you won't find anyone with all of those skills, company doesn't listen and the advert goes live.
You also have to understand that a recruiter will only have to find 3-5 people to interview (that's all the client wants) so CV's land get put through an automated process (word/phrase matching), as soon as they have enough CV's to put forward that's it done for them generally, they'll call to confirm you're not an idiot and go through the CV to ensure you're qualified, but that'll be it generally.
TIGA84 said:
Freakuk said:
Role probably doesn't exist and it's just CV harvesting.
Or...
The company want all of these skills, the recruiter (a good recruiter) would have probably already explained that you won't find anyone with all of those skills, company doesn't listen and the advert goes live.
You also have to understand that a recruiter will only have to find 3-5 people to interview (that's all the client wants) so CV's land get put through an automated process (word/phrase matching), as soon as they have enough CV's to put forward that's it done for them generally, they'll call to confirm you're not an idiot and go through the CV to ensure you're qualified, but that'll be it generally.
Proving that you know absolutely zero about recruitment. Or...
The company want all of these skills, the recruiter (a good recruiter) would have probably already explained that you won't find anyone with all of those skills, company doesn't listen and the advert goes live.
You also have to understand that a recruiter will only have to find 3-5 people to interview (that's all the client wants) so CV's land get put through an automated process (word/phrase matching), as soon as they have enough CV's to put forward that's it done for them generally, they'll call to confirm you're not an idiot and go through the CV to ensure you're qualified, but that'll be it generally.
I would really value on your take on this situation if you have some current knowledge. Thanks.
Freakuk said:
TIGA84 said:
Proving that you know absolutely zero about recruitment.
LOL.....Considering I've been dealing with recruiters for over 25 years I think I have some experience, I certainly know which ones to avoid and which ones I'd trust.
"I've been recruiting for 25 years, I know how it all works."
You don't. You think you do, but you don't. That's not me being aggressive, but the facts you've mentioned earlier are so far wide of the mark its hilarious.
I've been recruiting for 25 years, (26 this year) both Agency (15 odd years) and now in house for the last decade or so. Lloyds/Spotify/Vodafone to name just a few.
CV Harvesting. Its 2023, not 1997. There's a tool called LinkedIN for a start, plus a million other niche sites/forums/boards. No one, and I mean no-one needs to do it or even thinks about it. Its completely false. In fact, its the complete opposite. There are too many candidates in most cases, what the hell would I do with a load of random CV's? Other than worry about GDPR for a start?
Fake roles? Again, welcome back to 1997. Doesn't happen. What possible value could you have for spending money advertising a role that doesn't exist, to look at CV's that you have no use for, to not recoup the outlay? Be a pretty s
t business that thinks they can operate like that.Running CV's through an automated tool to get key words? Yes there are tools that are available or tacked onto an ATS, but in my experience CV's are read in the most part by recruiters. They might be s
t at telling you you haven't got the job, but they're read by humans. That's why everyone moans about feedback (or the lack of it). If everyone's recruitment was automated, they'd get an auto response saying they weren't good enough right? Simply not the case.In answer to the OP and the roles you've seen? If its Agencies advertising on behalf of clients, they've probably been told that's how they want it. Which is completely wrong. Clients and Hiring Managers don't run Recruitment, Recruiters do. They just fail to tell them that, which is generally why everyone moans and it ultimately goes wrong or doesn't get hired. The comment around expectations is correct. Recruiters are s
t at saying no though. I see it all the time and it drives me nuts, I don't tell my Head of Engineering that they should build the new app or whatever in a certain way, so don't tell me how to run recruitment, its my job to tell them how its going to work and what they need to do for me to make it work.I don't go into McDonalds and tell them how to cook a Big Mac.
On the 3-5 CV bit you mentioned, probably about right as ratio, how many candidates do you reckon they've had to sift/search/talk to to get to 5 candidates though and the work and numbers behind the scenes to get there? I saw some stats on a Data Engineering recruitment piece last year where I am before I joined - 35 new heads across data/QE/backend etc etc. Total number of candidates that were involved in the process to get there through advertising/sourcing/screening/testing/interviewing and all the rest?
962.
Almost a thousand people to get 35 new hires. Its all the work you don't see, and to use another restaurant analogy, its like that tablespoon of sauce you get with your lamb at the Ritz and get charged £60 for, it probably took 3 days to make. You just don't see it.
Edited by TIGA84 on Monday 31st July 16:59
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