climbing the tech ladder
Discussion
I have 23 years in tech. After doing a conversion MSc I was a Java dev for a few years and then ended up in consultancy (not the big 4). 20 years of that (ish) and I am now at Director level. I think my progression has been OK, but it has slowed. At 45 I am now wondering how I make the next step.
I've been at this level now for over 5 years, and I've had a couple of sideways job moves, and I am now contracting, which I still kind of see as a temporary thing. I now mostly commonly characterise myself as an Enterprise Architect although I have held technical and architecture leadership roles like head of or chief. I am a bit worried whether contracting is taking me further away from career progression. If I had started out in a big-4 i think i could have progressed a lot faster and might even be partner now.
I had a failed foray into working in a product company, and not all 'industry' firms are interested in what they see as career consultants. Am I stuck?
How do people get towards CIO type roles... mostly not through architecture i guess?
any advice most welcome.
I've been at this level now for over 5 years, and I've had a couple of sideways job moves, and I am now contracting, which I still kind of see as a temporary thing. I now mostly commonly characterise myself as an Enterprise Architect although I have held technical and architecture leadership roles like head of or chief. I am a bit worried whether contracting is taking me further away from career progression. If I had started out in a big-4 i think i could have progressed a lot faster and might even be partner now.
I had a failed foray into working in a product company, and not all 'industry' firms are interested in what they see as career consultants. Am I stuck?
How do people get towards CIO type roles... mostly not through architecture i guess?
any advice most welcome.
Sounds like you've got some good experience. I am not a CIO but run teams of Developers, QA's, PMs, BAs & Support (total size 110 people) and I report to the CIO. I don't have much exposure to the infra side of Technology which is a bit of a blind spot for me.
My experience (2 colleagues that I worked with and who I'd now call good friends) is that the first CIO gig is gotten via promotion within the firm. In both my friend's cases, the incumbent CIO left and they both stepped in on an acting basis and proved themselves within 3/6 months and were then offered the job full time. For an idea of size, these are multi-million pound (profit) firms with technology organisations of 800-1000 staff.
I am not saying that you can't be a consultant / architect and apply for a CIO role elsewhere and get it, but I've not seen it happen.
A big element of the CIO role which seems to get forgotten, is the ability to run budgets and run the BAU function. I've seen very strong development managers have aspirations for the CIO seat but they've lacked so many of the other facets of the CIO role (managing internal stakeholders + the NEDs and the board, budget control, risk and cyber management to name a handful) that it's a non starter.
I don't know if any of the above helps, but happy to chat more if useful
My experience (2 colleagues that I worked with and who I'd now call good friends) is that the first CIO gig is gotten via promotion within the firm. In both my friend's cases, the incumbent CIO left and they both stepped in on an acting basis and proved themselves within 3/6 months and were then offered the job full time. For an idea of size, these are multi-million pound (profit) firms with technology organisations of 800-1000 staff.
I am not saying that you can't be a consultant / architect and apply for a CIO role elsewhere and get it, but I've not seen it happen.
A big element of the CIO role which seems to get forgotten, is the ability to run budgets and run the BAU function. I've seen very strong development managers have aspirations for the CIO seat but they've lacked so many of the other facets of the CIO role (managing internal stakeholders + the NEDs and the board, budget control, risk and cyber management to name a handful) that it's a non starter.
I don't know if any of the above helps, but happy to chat more if useful
choose now whether you stay technical or move into the man management of techies.
made the decision 25 years ago to stay technical since I decided there were too many "know it all but know Jack" people on the ladder.
25 years later the makeup of the ladder hasn't changed even though the technology stacks are far more complex.
made the decision 25 years ago to stay technical since I decided there were too many "know it all but know Jack" people on the ladder.
25 years later the makeup of the ladder hasn't changed even though the technology stacks are far more complex.
Sebo said:
Sounds like you've got some good experience. I am not a CIO but run teams of Developers, QA's, PMs, BAs & Support (total size 110 people) and I report to the CIO. I don't have much exposure to the infra side of Technology which is a bit of a blind spot for me.
My experience (2 colleagues that I worked with and who I'd now call good friends) is that the first CIO gig is gotten via promotion within the firm. In both my friend's cases, the incumbent CIO left and they both stepped in on an acting basis and proved themselves within 3/6 months and were then offered the job full time. For an idea of size, these are multi-million pound (profit) firms with technology organisations of 800-1000 staff.
I am not saying that you can't be a consultant / architect and apply for a CIO role elsewhere and get it, but I've not seen it happen.
A big element of the CIO role which seems to get forgotten, is the ability to run budgets and run the BAU function. I've seen very strong development managers have aspirations for the CIO seat but they've lacked so many of the other facets of the CIO role (managing internal stakeholders + the NEDs and the board, budget control, risk and cyber management to name a handful) that it's a non starter.
I don't know if any of the above helps, but happy to chat more if useful
i'm not really an infra guy either, but i think i cover the breadth of all tech now. The challenge is i am no longer deep in any one thing. It keeps the variety going but i feel like the whole industry is shifting away a bit from generalists at any level below exec. So I feel like maybe by being a sub-exec generalist maybe i am fMy experience (2 colleagues that I worked with and who I'd now call good friends) is that the first CIO gig is gotten via promotion within the firm. In both my friend's cases, the incumbent CIO left and they both stepped in on an acting basis and proved themselves within 3/6 months and were then offered the job full time. For an idea of size, these are multi-million pound (profit) firms with technology organisations of 800-1000 staff.
I am not saying that you can't be a consultant / architect and apply for a CIO role elsewhere and get it, but I've not seen it happen.
A big element of the CIO role which seems to get forgotten, is the ability to run budgets and run the BAU function. I've seen very strong development managers have aspirations for the CIO seat but they've lacked so many of the other facets of the CIO role (managing internal stakeholders + the NEDs and the board, budget control, risk and cyber management to name a handful) that it's a non starter.
I don't know if any of the above helps, but happy to chat more if useful
ked? Not sure. I did have the idea that most exec positions are promoted into. Certainly don't see many advertised. A big 4 firm I contracted into last gig really really wanted to hire me and I think this would have been great, however this was just as the whole hiring shutdown and layoffs starting happening in corporate tech. I am keeping in touch but we shall see.
trashbat said:
It sounds like you have a lot of IC experience, but I'm not clear what management and particularly people management experience you have?
lots really. I ran a team of 30 or so in a tier 2 consultancy, and also I was MD of a managed service with a further 25, client side. After that I moved up a bit and had two matrix teams one of about 100 and one of about 250. These were architects of all types. I moved into a digital product company and had ownership over tech for the region, which was a direct team of solution architects and a matrix team of engineers. I had a fairly bad experience in that last one though which prompted me to bail on leadership roles and go contracting... this could hamper me i guess and also I am a bit unsure whether i desperately want to get back on that bus, in some ways. shouldbworking said:
I would have thought that a CTO role would be a more normal progression for an architect, unless you happen to be more gifted with people than most architects.
most CTO roles are just like engineering leadership though, which i find boring and I'm not so immersed in that world that I think I could do well at that. If it was a larger firm where it wasn't just about build then I'd possibly do well at that. Incidentally I am assured that I am in the process for a CTO role in a UK bank... will see if that comes to pass though.Greenmantle said:
choose now whether you stay technical or move into the man management of techies.
made the decision 25 years ago to stay technical since I decided there were too many "know it all but know Jack" people on the ladder.
25 years later the makeup of the ladder hasn't changed even though the technology stacks are far more complex.
i've done both. Do I have to choose?! I mean... I look at partners and CIOs and they have about the right level of distance/involvement in tech but they aren't just hands on managers - far from it. I would vastly prefer being a leader to being a manager. made the decision 25 years ago to stay technical since I decided there were too many "know it all but know Jack" people on the ladder.
25 years later the makeup of the ladder hasn't changed even though the technology stacks are far more complex.
I could write an essay on this subject 
Email me, I'm a CIO and have been for 15 years, in multiple organisations, from mid-size (1,000 to 4,000 employee) organisations, now a multi-billion mkt cap global brand.
Over the past 5 or so years, I've mentored a few aspiring c40-year-old technologists, 3 ended up now at CIO level (earning multiple 6 fig packages working in ~£500M mkt cap orgs)
Email me, I'm a CIO and have been for 15 years, in multiple organisations, from mid-size (1,000 to 4,000 employee) organisations, now a multi-billion mkt cap global brand.
Over the past 5 or so years, I've mentored a few aspiring c40-year-old technologists, 3 ended up now at CIO level (earning multiple 6 fig packages working in ~£500M mkt cap orgs)
Blown2CV said:
I have 23 years in tech. After doing a conversion MSc I was a Java dev for a few years and then ended up in consultancy (not the big 4). 20 years of that (ish) and I am now at Director level. I think my progression has been OK, but it has slowed. At 45 I am now wondering how I make the next step.
I've been at this level now for over 5 years, and I've had a couple of sideways job moves, and I am now contracting, which I still kind of see as a temporary thing. I now mostly commonly characterise myself as an Enterprise Architect although I have held technical and architecture leadership roles like head of or chief. I am a bit worried whether contracting is taking me further away from career progression. If I had started out in a big-4 i think i could have progressed a lot faster and might even be partner now.
I had a failed foray into working in a product company, and not all 'industry' firms are interested in what they see as career consultants. Am I stuck?
How do people get towards CIO type roles... mostly not through architecture i guess?
any advice most welcome.
I've been at this level now for over 5 years, and I've had a couple of sideways job moves, and I am now contracting, which I still kind of see as a temporary thing. I now mostly commonly characterise myself as an Enterprise Architect although I have held technical and architecture leadership roles like head of or chief. I am a bit worried whether contracting is taking me further away from career progression. If I had started out in a big-4 i think i could have progressed a lot faster and might even be partner now.
I had a failed foray into working in a product company, and not all 'industry' firms are interested in what they see as career consultants. Am I stuck?
How do people get towards CIO type roles... mostly not through architecture i guess?
any advice most welcome.
Edited by Wilmslowboy on Wednesday 12th July 17:21
GTS_uk said:
Does it have to be a CIO role?
Technical Sales/Strategy can be a good option for architects with consulting experience.
Can be quite lucrative if you're in the right company (I'm not!
) and has a path to a number of senior roles.
I did tech sales waaaay back. It's OK but it requires a deeper knowledge about one thing than I can be arsed to acquire now. Also I always disliked being the sales guy's bTechnical Sales/Strategy can be a good option for architects with consulting experience.
Can be quite lucrative if you're in the right company (I'm not!
) and has a path to a number of senior roles. h! It would also mean probably being aligned to a product firm too and i think I don't really want to do that again. I think in a lot of consulting firms now don't actually have separate sales teams and the consultants just do it. As an SA most CIO's I operate with don't have the first idea about anything I am talking to them about, half the time they don't even know why they have been invited to the meeting then someone hands them a coffee and a biscuit and they seem happy sat in the corner looking at their phones. Not sure why anyone would actively want to be one.
Sarcasm aside, there does seem to be some leverage in the CIO for hire game, ACT type role, you get inserted as a CIO type function and then move from one customer to the next. Certainly that's how I see the progression into there (other opinions are available) thought I will confess as I would like to head towards a CTO type role I haven't looked into the CIO stuff a great deal.
Sarcasm aside, there does seem to be some leverage in the CIO for hire game, ACT type role, you get inserted as a CIO type function and then move from one customer to the next. Certainly that's how I see the progression into there (other opinions are available) thought I will confess as I would like to head towards a CTO type role I haven't looked into the CIO stuff a great deal.
I don't see you use the word cloud anywhere in your responses, which slightly troubles me. The reason I say that, as many of the people I see moving upwards are those who are in the driving seat of cloud transformation in their firms. It's become something of a business imperative in FSI for example, and an area broad and deep enough to need a whole kit-bag of experience to lead well. Lots of great opportunity in the space for people still learning and developing themselves.
I'd also agree CTO path rather than CIO for an architect, but you are either not that technically deep or you're being self-deprecating about the tech side of things, and any decent CTO role (ie. one that isn't dull and actually pays decent cash) will expect a lot of technical depth these days.
I was a tech / management consultant for 17 years, then moved into a pure IC role in big tech. I'm like the proverbial pig in mess, 10 years in and it still surprises me how much I am growing and enjoying myself at the same time. I'm 52 next week and I love the fact I'm doing something that not only feels valuable, but I am learning every day and still have lots of career runway in front of me as well. Happy to have a chat on the phone if you want to PM me. PH is a public forum and not the best place for some of these career discussions.
EDIT: See you have an even better offer from Wilmslow Boy anyway
I'd also agree CTO path rather than CIO for an architect, but you are either not that technically deep or you're being self-deprecating about the tech side of things, and any decent CTO role (ie. one that isn't dull and actually pays decent cash) will expect a lot of technical depth these days.
I was a tech / management consultant for 17 years, then moved into a pure IC role in big tech. I'm like the proverbial pig in mess, 10 years in and it still surprises me how much I am growing and enjoying myself at the same time. I'm 52 next week and I love the fact I'm doing something that not only feels valuable, but I am learning every day and still have lots of career runway in front of me as well. Happy to have a chat on the phone if you want to PM me. PH is a public forum and not the best place for some of these career discussions.
EDIT: See you have an even better offer from Wilmslow Boy anyway
Wilmslowboy said:
I could write an essay on this subject
Email me, I'm a CIO and have been for 15 years, in multiple organisations, from mid-size (1,000 to 4,000 employee) organisations, now a multi-billion mkt cap global brand.
Over the past 5 or so years, I've mentored a few aspiring c40-year-old technologists, 3 ended up now at CIO level (earning multiple 6 fig packages working in ~£500M mkt cap orgs)
the power of PH delivers!! I will certainly do that and if you're still in wilmslow I believe you're not that far down the road either. Thank youEmail me, I'm a CIO and have been for 15 years, in multiple organisations, from mid-size (1,000 to 4,000 employee) organisations, now a multi-billion mkt cap global brand.
Over the past 5 or so years, I've mentored a few aspiring c40-year-old technologists, 3 ended up now at CIO level (earning multiple 6 fig packages working in ~£500M mkt cap orgs)
Edited by Wilmslowboy on Wednesday 12th July 17:21
nebpor said:
I don't see you use the word cloud anywhere in your responses, which slightly troubles me. The reason I say that, as many of the people I see moving upwards are those who are in the driving seat of cloud transformation in their firms. It's become something of a business imperative in FSI for example, and an area broad and deep enough to need a whole kit-bag of experience to lead well. Lots of great opportunity in the space for people still learning and developing themselves.
I'd also agree CTO path rather than CIO for an architect, but you are either not that technically deep or you're being self-deprecating about the tech side of things, and any decent CTO role (ie. one that isn't dull and actually pays decent cash) will expect a lot of technical depth these days.
I was a tech / management consultant for 17 years, then moved into a pure IC role in big tech. I'm like the proverbial pig in mess, 10 years in and it still surprises me how much I am growing and enjoying myself at the same time. I'm 52 next week and I love the fact I'm doing something that not only feels valuable, but I am learning every day and still have lots of career runway in front of me as well. Happy to have a chat on the phone if you want to PM me. PH is a public forum and not the best place for some of these career discussions.
EDIT: See you have an even better offer from Wilmslow Boy anyway
fair play. I just see cloud as a part of the tool chest. It's a big part admittedly. I've been around cloud since it was first kicked off. I remember being in the room with IBM and microsoft when IBM's answer to cloud was to put their iffy software onto AWS and tada. They've changed their mind 8 times since then. My last role (the big 4 one) was as a cloud transformation EA director. I had never done a dedicated cloud role before but i knew enough about it and had done enough deep end immersion and big transformation to be credible and valuable. I must have done something right as this was where they were incredibly vocal about wanting to hire me. I'd also agree CTO path rather than CIO for an architect, but you are either not that technically deep or you're being self-deprecating about the tech side of things, and any decent CTO role (ie. one that isn't dull and actually pays decent cash) will expect a lot of technical depth these days.
I was a tech / management consultant for 17 years, then moved into a pure IC role in big tech. I'm like the proverbial pig in mess, 10 years in and it still surprises me how much I am growing and enjoying myself at the same time. I'm 52 next week and I love the fact I'm doing something that not only feels valuable, but I am learning every day and still have lots of career runway in front of me as well. Happy to have a chat on the phone if you want to PM me. PH is a public forum and not the best place for some of these career discussions.
EDIT: See you have an even better offer from Wilmslow Boy anyway
Most boards want their CIO (not CTO) to...
deliver projects (change)
manage tech/change budgets (value not cost)
manage cyber security
manage partners/ suppliers
drive efficiency (and effectiveness) in the business functions (help the org sell more, serve customers better, for less etc)
be able to lead the full spectrum of IT functions
Projects/ change can be a combination of in-house dev, offshore/outsourced dev, bespoke applications, COTS/ SAAS offerings
deliver projects (change)
manage tech/change budgets (value not cost)
manage cyber security
manage partners/ suppliers
drive efficiency (and effectiveness) in the business functions (help the org sell more, serve customers better, for less etc)
be able to lead the full spectrum of IT functions
Projects/ change can be a combination of in-house dev, offshore/outsourced dev, bespoke applications, COTS/ SAAS offerings
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