Redundancy Consultation
Discussion
I work(ed) for a large global financial servies firm but in May they advised that my role was being made redundant - alongside a lot of others. I was immediately disconnected from the network and walked off site - all standard and understandable.
Consultation was due to run for minimum of 45 days. They have been emailing me other opportunities (of which 1 was suitable job wise, but came with a £35k pay cut so I politely declined).
I've now had my "final consultation meeting" with HR/senior manager and awaiting outcome from the process. I have no doubt that redundancy will follow and I'm happy to walk away as confidence in the firm has been breached as far as I'm concerned.
My question - do I have any rights to request access to the consultation negotiations and/or any discussions which took place following my final consultation meeting? In the meeting I put across my points as felt they didn't understand what my role entailed, so keen to understand if they even considered this at all or if they simply treated it as lip service and decision was already made.
TIA
Consultation was due to run for minimum of 45 days. They have been emailing me other opportunities (of which 1 was suitable job wise, but came with a £35k pay cut so I politely declined).
I've now had my "final consultation meeting" with HR/senior manager and awaiting outcome from the process. I have no doubt that redundancy will follow and I'm happy to walk away as confidence in the firm has been breached as far as I'm concerned.
My question - do I have any rights to request access to the consultation negotiations and/or any discussions which took place following my final consultation meeting? In the meeting I put across my points as felt they didn't understand what my role entailed, so keen to understand if they even considered this at all or if they simply treated it as lip service and decision was already made.
TIA
How are you represented through the consultation process? If it is large enough that reps have been elected then they will have access to the information the employer is required to release and they should pass that on to you.
I would bet my house though that regardless of how critical you, your knowledge or you expertise is to the organisation that it's a done deal and you'll just have to suck it up. Might be an idea to develop a side line in consultancy support and make sure those who are left know your contact details and your daily rate if you are that mission critical though...
I would bet my house though that regardless of how critical you, your knowledge or you expertise is to the organisation that it's a done deal and you'll just have to suck it up. Might be an idea to develop a side line in consultancy support and make sure those who are left know your contact details and your daily rate if you are that mission critical though...
Collectingbrass said:
How are you represented through the consultation process? If it is large enough that reps have been elected then they will have access to the information the employer is required to release and they should pass that on to you.
I would bet my house though that regardless of how critical you, your knowledge or you expertise is to the organisation that it's a done deal and you'll just have to suck it up. Might be an idea to develop a side line in consultancy support and make sure those who are left know your contact details and your daily rate if you are that mission critical though...
They have elected reps, whom they are I do not know! I will check with my HR contact to see if they can put me in touch.I would bet my house though that regardless of how critical you, your knowledge or you expertise is to the organisation that it's a done deal and you'll just have to suck it up. Might be an idea to develop a side line in consultancy support and make sure those who are left know your contact details and your daily rate if you are that mission critical though...
I agree, this was a done deal and I have no expectation of anyone changing their mind. I'm looking elsewhere and got a couple of side gigs underway
If there's no job visible take the money and don't stress yourself with what parts of the process may or may not have been done correctly. Inevitable they will have been done to a standard that meets employment law and unless you've been discriminated against due to a protected characteristic it's really not going anywhere.
I've been made redundant 4 times and been the guy dealing with the redundancies 4 times.
I've been made redundant 4 times and been the guy dealing with the redundancies 4 times.
Sy1441 said:
If there's no job visible take the money and don't stress yourself with what parts of the process may or may not have been done correctly. Inevitable they will have been done to a standard that meets employment law and unless you've been discriminated against due to a protected characteristic it's really not going anywhere.
I've been made redundant 4 times and been the guy dealing with the redundancies 4 times.
I would concur with this.I've been made redundant 4 times and been the guy dealing with the redundancies 4 times.
I dont feel theres anything to be gained, other than creating annoyance for yourself.
Tom8 said:
You can also make a Subject Access Request. It can encourage a better settlement and may also gain you info you may not have otherwise had. It is a pain in the arse for the employer and they will try and avoid it.
It can also have the opposite effect whereby you piss the employer off and they hardball you.Kudos said:
My question - do I have any rights to request access to the consultation negotiations and/or any discussions which took place following my final consultation meeting? In the meeting I put across my points as felt they didn't understand what my role entailed, so keen to understand if they even considered this at all or if they simply treated it as lip service and decision was already made.
TIA
9 times out of 10 the decisions have been made long before employees are "consulted". This includes whom will be on the block. TIA
Ask yourself, to what end do you seek this information? DO you truly think that if you present additional information they will change their minds?
Your role now is, in my view at least, to secure as much compensation as possible, negotiate up. That is the main aim in these circumstances I am afraid and that is where your energies should be directed to my mind.
Thanks all for the responses.
I agree with the view that the decision was taken a long time ago and nothing is going to change that. Even if they did change their mind and wanted me back I've no interest in doing so - confidence is gone.
My thoughts on the asking for the consultation information was to make life a bit more difficult for them. In reality it won't change the inevitable and I'll focus my effort on finding a new role
I agree with the view that the decision was taken a long time ago and nothing is going to change that. Even if they did change their mind and wanted me back I've no interest in doing so - confidence is gone.
My thoughts on the asking for the consultation information was to make life a bit more difficult for them. In reality it won't change the inevitable and I'll focus my effort on finding a new role
Has the consultation been conducted 'fairly'? Well from my experience the process of selecting the people is generally pretty rigorous. Yes, I know it is the roles which are considered, but not for a minute, will there not be a consideration of who within those roles the organisation sees some potential in, and those it does not. Is that 'fair' within the regulations? Well, yes and no.
Want to 'lawyer up' and fight it? Maybe you should have done a better job prior to the problems? In my experience if you want to fight it, you'll get the legal minima and a poor reputation.
Use it as a learning experience, companies do not generally make useful people redundant, unless we are talking about very larger numbers (circa hundreds plus). Even then people with what is seen as potential wil; get better offers.
Want to 'lawyer up' and fight it? Maybe you should have done a better job prior to the problems? In my experience if you want to fight it, you'll get the legal minima and a poor reputation.
Use it as a learning experience, companies do not generally make useful people redundant, unless we are talking about very larger numbers (circa hundreds plus). Even then people with what is seen as potential wil; get better offers.
make sure you know what your contractual / statutory minimum is for redundancy.
I've been up for redundancy once, didn't get the role but managed to slide across into a different one. Would only have been statutory and wouldn't have been worth it. The business haven't sought to create or find a suitable role to keep you, take that as a sign they don't value you.
If the offer is enough to take some time off and your skills are in demand then dont argue, go elsewhere and never look back.
Once redundant do not try and live off the lump sum too long, the longer you're away from work the harder it may be to find another role. Remember you'll have no protection in the new role for 2 years so its good to keep a lump back.
I've been up for redundancy once, didn't get the role but managed to slide across into a different one. Would only have been statutory and wouldn't have been worth it. The business haven't sought to create or find a suitable role to keep you, take that as a sign they don't value you.
If the offer is enough to take some time off and your skills are in demand then dont argue, go elsewhere and never look back.
Once redundant do not try and live off the lump sum too long, the longer you're away from work the harder it may be to find another role. Remember you'll have no protection in the new role for 2 years so its good to keep a lump back.
thanks again to everyone for their comments, positive and negative 
Quick update and answer some comments.
I agree performance would very much be a tool used to decide if someone should be made redundant. I have always hit top marks in my appraisals, so that's not the reason I was selected. It's purely a role no longer required - the progamme I was involved with has come to an end in their eyes.
What has come to light, unofficially and off the record by a senior manager, is that they've decided I was unfairly put on the list and shouldn't have been. However, they won't change their minds.
I was one of a few thousand globally put at risk. Based on this, when I asked for minutes of meetings with the "consultation team" which discussed me, I was told there was nothing where my name came up specifically - it was collective negotiations. What I'm keen to see is, am I allowed to ask for the communications between my HR rep and management chain which discussed some of the points I'd raised in my personal "final consultation" meeting?
I have focussed my efforts in finding a new role ASAP. Couple of very warm leads currently that are in progress. In addition, my employer have managed to move the job that they had asked me to consider but was in a lower paid region to make it available in London so I wouldn't have to take a pay cut. I'm in two minds - I might take the money and leave or consider the new role and it's new management chain.
Quick update and answer some comments.
I agree performance would very much be a tool used to decide if someone should be made redundant. I have always hit top marks in my appraisals, so that's not the reason I was selected. It's purely a role no longer required - the progamme I was involved with has come to an end in their eyes.
What has come to light, unofficially and off the record by a senior manager, is that they've decided I was unfairly put on the list and shouldn't have been. However, they won't change their minds.
I was one of a few thousand globally put at risk. Based on this, when I asked for minutes of meetings with the "consultation team" which discussed me, I was told there was nothing where my name came up specifically - it was collective negotiations. What I'm keen to see is, am I allowed to ask for the communications between my HR rep and management chain which discussed some of the points I'd raised in my personal "final consultation" meeting?
I have focussed my efforts in finding a new role ASAP. Couple of very warm leads currently that are in progress. In addition, my employer have managed to move the job that they had asked me to consider but was in a lower paid region to make it available in London so I wouldn't have to take a pay cut. I'm in two minds - I might take the money and leave or consider the new role and it's new management chain.
Kudos said:
thanks again to everyone for their comments, positive and negative
Quick update and answer some comments.
I agree performance would very much be a tool used to decide if someone should be made redundant. I have always hit top marks in my appraisals, so that's not the reason I was selected. It's purely a role no longer required - the progamme I was involved with has come to an end in their eyes.
What has come to light, unofficially and off the record by a senior manager, is that they've decided I was unfairly put on the list and shouldn't have been. However, they won't change their minds.
I was one of a few thousand globally put at risk. Based on this, when I asked for minutes of meetings with the "consultation team" which discussed me, I was told there was nothing where my name came up specifically - it was collective negotiations. What I'm keen to see is, am I allowed to ask for the communications between my HR rep and management chain which discussed some of the points I'd raised in my personal "final consultation" meeting?
I have focussed my efforts in finding a new role ASAP. Couple of very warm leads currently that are in progress. In addition, my employer have managed to move the job that they had asked me to consider but was in a lower paid region to make it available in London so I wouldn't have to take a pay cut. I'm in two minds - I might take the money and leave or consider the new role and it's new management chain.
You are only entitled to see information specifically about you, ie where you are the subject. This normally neans a keyword search for your name. If you weren't discussed specifically, or were part of a broader group then you won't see it; nor will you if they used your initials which is common in these scenarios.......Quick update and answer some comments.
I agree performance would very much be a tool used to decide if someone should be made redundant. I have always hit top marks in my appraisals, so that's not the reason I was selected. It's purely a role no longer required - the progamme I was involved with has come to an end in their eyes.
What has come to light, unofficially and off the record by a senior manager, is that they've decided I was unfairly put on the list and shouldn't have been. However, they won't change their minds.
I was one of a few thousand globally put at risk. Based on this, when I asked for minutes of meetings with the "consultation team" which discussed me, I was told there was nothing where my name came up specifically - it was collective negotiations. What I'm keen to see is, am I allowed to ask for the communications between my HR rep and management chain which discussed some of the points I'd raised in my personal "final consultation" meeting?
I have focussed my efforts in finding a new role ASAP. Couple of very warm leads currently that are in progress. In addition, my employer have managed to move the job that they had asked me to consider but was in a lower paid region to make it available in London so I wouldn't have to take a pay cut. I'm in two minds - I might take the money and leave or consider the new role and it's new management chain.
Kudos said:
thanks again to everyone for their comments, positive and negative
Quick update and answer some comments.
I agree performance would very much be a tool used to decide if someone should be made redundant. I have always hit top marks in my appraisals, so that's not the reason I was selected. It's purely a role no longer required - the progamme I was involved with has come to an end in their eyes.
What has come to light, unofficially and off the record by a senior manager, is that they've decided I was unfairly put on the list and shouldn't have been. However, they won't change their minds.
I was one of a few thousand globally put at risk. Based on this, when I asked for minutes of meetings with the "consultation team" which discussed me, I was told there was nothing where my name came up specifically - it was collective negotiations. What I'm keen to see is, am I allowed to ask for the communications between my HR rep and management chain which discussed some of the points I'd raised in my personal "final consultation" meeting?
I have focussed my efforts in finding a new role ASAP. Couple of very warm leads currently that are in progress. In addition, my employer have managed to move the job that they had asked me to consider but was in a lower paid region to make it available in London so I wouldn't have to take a pay cut. I'm in two minds - I might take the money and leave or consider the new role and it's new management chain.
I cannot see how that can possibly count as a genuine consultation. I await an employment lawyer to chip in ITT. Quick update and answer some comments.
I agree performance would very much be a tool used to decide if someone should be made redundant. I have always hit top marks in my appraisals, so that's not the reason I was selected. It's purely a role no longer required - the progamme I was involved with has come to an end in their eyes.
What has come to light, unofficially and off the record by a senior manager, is that they've decided I was unfairly put on the list and shouldn't have been. However, they won't change their minds.
I was one of a few thousand globally put at risk. Based on this, when I asked for minutes of meetings with the "consultation team" which discussed me, I was told there was nothing where my name came up specifically - it was collective negotiations. What I'm keen to see is, am I allowed to ask for the communications between my HR rep and management chain which discussed some of the points I'd raised in my personal "final consultation" meeting?
I have focussed my efforts in finding a new role ASAP. Couple of very warm leads currently that are in progress. In addition, my employer have managed to move the job that they had asked me to consider but was in a lower paid region to make it available in London so I wouldn't have to take a pay cut. I'm in two minds - I might take the money and leave or consider the new role and it's new management chain.
Have they offered you a settlement / enhanced redundancy? You can 'make some noise' to try and sweeten the deal (search and see threads on here) but unless you have a really good reason, your negotiation is limited. Even at tribunal, awards are limited, unless you have been discriminated against on the basis of a protected characteristic, whistle blowing etc.
CharlesElliott said:
Have they offered you a settlement / enhanced redundancy? You can 'make some noise' to try and sweeten the deal (search and see threads on here) but unless you have a really good reason, your negotiation is limited. Even at tribunal, awards are limited, unless you have been discriminated against on the basis of a protected characteristic, whistle blowing etc.
The offer they make to you is the important thing. If they are offering statutory minimum (think it’s one week per year of service at £200 ish) then be a pain in the arse but if the offer is more generous take it, or you risk losing it. How long have you been there ?bompey said:
The offer they make to you is the important thing. If they are offering statutory minimum (think it’s one week per year of service at £200 ish) then be a pain in the arse but if the offer is more generous take it, or you risk losing it. How long have you been there ?
This is what I'm planning to do. They have made an offer, one which is substantially greater than minimum. Not a retirement sum by any stretch. I don't particularly have any interest in chasing a larger payout or some form of discrimination any more. Will focus on finding new employment ASAP and bank the money.The annoying thing is, I enjoyed working there and was happy to see out the rest of my working life (~20yrs).
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