Asking for a compromise agreement

[Sogra]

Hi after some direction. I will take proper legal advice but just want to get my ducks in a row first

Been with the company for 20 years and I am nearly 61. Has been great but times are changing and it is a younger persons job now. I am okay with that.

We often do early release schemes but the value is never known and is always subject to an NDA

I want to have a without prejudice or protected conversation with the business

I am currently battling some health issues and likely to take some considerable time off.

I will get full pay for 12 months if I were to be off that long

The calculation I am doing in my head is redundancy payment (calculated from GOV.uk) although I would likely be paid my actual amount rather than the lower maximum (What the GOV says) plus 12 weeks notice.

The bit I am unsure about is this. It would be better for the company to let me go rather than be off sick. They could re employ and also possibly someone cheaper.
So in my thoughts are that in addition to the theoretical redundancy payments there would probably be similar amount to the notice and redundancy that I would be looking for.
Also the first £30k would be tax free.
Potentially they could be paying me for 12 months anyway on sick

I am in a final salary pension scheme scheme and have a decent SIP pension as well

The company are really good generally but just want to be realistic in what I am looking for but also not under ask.

Also at have company car, health insurance and life insurance through work. Phone bill, internet are paid by work and I have £20er day lunch allowance.

Decent expenses policy for nights away and travel. I stay away around 40 nights a year.

The Solicitor I have spoken to so far has said they won’t look at it without reviewing employment contracts etc and a minimum of 2 hours at £350 + vat per hour which in the scheme of things will be fine if that’s what I decided to do but again I don’t know if I am anywhere near.

[Gargamel]

Why not simply ask your line manager if there is an early release scheme in operation at the moment?

Is that possible.

You could of course ask HR for a without prejudice conversation, and then let them know that you feel you need to prioritise your health and you would consider a structured package.

It may be difficult for the company to provide redundancy, they may need to replace your role. Naturally there might be ways round that, but sometimes it’s not so easy,

[Sogra]

Gargamel said:

Why not simply ask your line manager if there is an early release scheme in operation at the moment?

Is that possible.

You could of course ask HR for a without prejudice conversation, and then let them know that you feel you need to prioritise your health and you would consider a structured package.

It may be difficult for the company to provide redundancy, they may need to replace your role. Naturally there might be ways round that, but sometimes it’s not so easy,

Pretty much what I am asking but the first question will be how much are you looking for ?

Global business HR will handle everything by the book. It won’t be a drama getting an early release but the numbers will need to make sense for both of us.

They will be able to recruit as I won’t have been made redundant

[Gargamel]

I’d calculate the stat minimum.


Ask them to make you an offer. If pushed, ask for a year and full benefits, expect to land in between those numbers.

Are enough sure you will get a tax free element if you aren’t redundant, am not sure you will.

See if it’s an advantage to get some into your pension as an alternative

[Sogra]

I think your along the same lines I am on that.

It’s a decent company and anyone I have known do anything remotely similar has never appeared unhappy.

The pension isn’t really an option as I will reach my lifetime allowance shortly.


Thanks for the help

[kiethton]

You mentioned the health issue and also private healthcare, would this element of your package be worth a lot more to you over the next year?

[Sogra]

kiethton said:

You mentioned the health issue and also private healthcare, would this element of your package be worth a lot more to you over the next year?

Had thought about that but the advantages of getting away from the pressure and stress will significantly help the health.

I am fortunate with the type of work I have done and real stress is earning minimum wage with 3 kids to feed but significant elements of my health will improve when I am not doing the things my job entails.

So far used the NHS other than for shoulder operation but the NHS has been brilliant.

Big loss would be the life insurance we also have our own life insurance that was linked to the mortgage The Mortgage is long gone but we still have the insurance until we are 65. Now too old and health issues to get anything other than over 50s type stuff. Having said that it would only be to pass on to my daughter now.

The health problem (or one of them) is IBS but it’s just getting more serious and it’s not helped by the pressure to get results and the travel and socialising that goes with my role.

There is also massive pressure to achieve results which I accepted throughout my working life but just getting harder as I am getting older.

[Car bon]

Sogra said:

Gargamel said:

Why not simply ask your line manager if there is an early release scheme in operation at the moment?

Pretty much what I am asking but the first question will be how much are you looking for ?

Global business HR will handle everything by the book. It won’t be a drama getting an early release but the numbers will need to make sense for both of us.

They wouldn't normally ask how much you're looking for - they'd just tell you the numbers.

All you can really do is ask whether there is a scheme in operation and if not, let it be known that you'd be interested in the next one. If you happen to go off sick in the interim, then reiterate your open to a termination conversation.

Sogra said:

The Solicitor I have spoken to so far has said they won’t look at it without reviewing employment contracts etc and a minimum of 2 hours at £350 + vat per hour which in the scheme of things will be fine if that’s what I decided to do but again I don’t know if I am anywhere near.

Don't bother yet. A compromise agreement will include your employer paying for some level of legal advice

[Jasandjules]

Sogra said:

The Solicitor I have spoken to so far has said they won’t look at it without reviewing employment contracts etc and a minimum of 2 hours at £350 + vat per hour which in the scheme of things will be fine if that’s what I decided to do but again I don’t know if I am anywhere near.

First of all, what the hell does he think he needs to read for two hours?

You are unwell and looking to exit the business with maximum money, it is really that simple is it not?

All you really need to do is work out your best and worst case scenarios then have a WP chat with whomever would make that decision....

[anonymous-user]

Do you have critical illness and /or short or long term sickness/income protection insurance through the company?

Worth checking in detail what is/isn't covered, I've handed over several long term sick to insurance companies that have covered them for quite a few years, one I think until retirement (can't be sure as was a while ago).

Critical illness paid off some/all of several mortgages when I was at another employer.

As you have a final salary pension the cost of losing a year needs to be calculated.

Also you have the option of going off sick on full pay with the intention to return, but then speaking to them after 6 months (or longer) to discuss options for the future.

[Sogra]

Jasandjules said:

First of all, what the hell does he think he needs to read for two hours?

You are unwell and looking to exit the business with maximum money, it is really that simple is it not?

All you really need to do is work out your best and worst case scenarios then have a WP chat with whomever would make that decision....

Pretty much nailed it. The major parts I was struggling with was the how much bit. I have found a number of online calculators that whilst I suspect have many variables have given me hopefully a decent indication of where I would want to be which is probably around 12 months net salary.

Thanks

[Sogra]

Car bon said:

Sogra said:

Gargamel said:

Why not simply ask your line manager if there is an early release scheme in operation at the moment?

Pretty much what I am asking but the first question will be how much are you looking for ?

Global business HR will handle everything by the book. It won’t be a drama getting an early release but the numbers will need to make sense for both of us.

They wouldn't normally ask how much you're looking for - they'd just tell you the numbers.

All you can really do is ask whether there is a scheme in operation and if not, let it be known that you'd be interested in the next one. If you happen to go off sick in the interim, then reiterate your open to a termination conversation.

Sogra said:

The Solicitor I have spoken to so far has said they won’t look at it without reviewing employment contracts etc and a minimum of 2 hours at £350 + vat per hour which in the scheme of things will be fine if that’s what I decided to do but again I don’t know if I am anywhere near.

Don't bother yet. A compromise agreement will include your employer paying for some level of legal advice

Couple of things to clarify. They absolutely would ask how much I was looking for I have seen similar in the company for the last 20 years - why would they pay say £80k when I would be happy with £60k

Even if there wasn’t a scheme in place they will still be open to a conversation it’s not the kind of business for shy people waiting to see

Really good company and very aware of their reputation but also I am just a payroll number. I have always been okay with that. Just need to understand what was realistic to be asking for. Everything is a negotiation

I accepted a long time ago that there will be no memory me in a couple of months

Thanks for the help

[NorthDave]

Sogra said:

The pension isn’t really an option as I will reach my lifetime allowance shortly.


Thanks for the help

Lifetime allowance has been scrapped. I'd definitely be looking at the tax savings if dumping in to the pension!

[Sogra]

[

Also you have the option of going off sick on full pay with the intention to return, but then speaking to them after 6 months (or longer) to discuss options for the future.




[/quote]


Yep also thinking that maybe an option but possibly sooner than six months. No animosity with them and if they can fill the role sooner better for all

Thanks

[Car bon]

Sogra said:

They absolutely would ask how much I was looking for I have seen similar in the company for the last 20 years - why would they pay say £80k when I would be happy with £60k

If you know the company, then I can't argue. Most big companies have a set formula though. They may add a little if you go back & ask, but they normally go first. That's if they structure it as a redundancy - because if HMRC question it, then they need to demonstrate a fair process.

If you have to ask, then it's finger in the air - a months pay per year of service is likely OTT - 1.5 weeks is likely the minimum - so maybe start with 3 weeks per year ? +notice + accrued holiday etc.

[anonymous-user]

Sogra said:

[

Also you have the option of going off sick on full pay with the intention to return, but then speaking to them after 6 months (or longer) to discuss options for the future.

Yep also thinking that maybe an option but possibly sooner than six months. No animosity with them and if they can fill the role sooner better for all

Thanks

Some time off of a few months helps focus minds a bit (I've done quite a few comp outs over the years), especially when approached professionally and logically by the employee. All depends on company of course

[Jasandjules]

Sogra said:

Pretty much nailed it. The major parts I was struggling with was the how much bit. I have found a number of online calculators that whilst I suspect have many variables have given me hopefully a decent indication of where I would want to be which is probably around 12 months net salary.

Thanks

Online calculators tend not to be worth a huge amount all things considered. The bottom line is how much they will pay (which may be far more, or far less). In this case you appear to have (from what you say) a 12 month full pay sick leave policy. I assume after that it ramps to say 50% for 6 months?

Therefore you can simply offer to take that sum (the 12 month) noting that it is likely you would be off sick for that long thus they would need to pay and potentially a cover, then perhaps longer, plus benefits etc.. Thus a simple 12 month salary payment (well, perhaps 9 months ex gratia then 3 months notice to sweeten the deal) would benefit them as well as you.

[HIAO]

Without prejudice rules do not apply to pre-termination conversations. They can be used in some employment disputes.

However, pre-termination conversations can be protected.

[Jasandjules]

HIAO said:

Without prejudice rules do not apply to pre-termination conversations. They can be used in some employment disputes.

However, pre-termination conversations can be protected.

Quite, technically speaking you are going to have a S111A discussion. However if you said "WP" as a layman prior to any "dispute" actually being in play, it would be likely an employer would understand what was meant and act accordingly.

[Sogra]

Jasandjules said:

Quite, technically speaking you are going to have a S111A discussion. However if you said "WP" as a layman prior to any "dispute" actually being in play, it would be likely an employer would understand what was meant and act accordingly.

Thanks. I was a little concerned that once I have the “Conversation” you can’t put the Genie back in the bottle and the relationship,would never be the same.