Agency workers rights?

[goldar]

I'm in a FTC under an umbrella. My job involves travel to different sites around London. I may be at multiple sites over the course of a week, or WFH depending on my schedule. There are 3 of us who do the same role.

The project director I work under has informed us that we are not allowed to claim for travel expenses if travel is within London. Outside of that is fine. I have queried this but I did not get very far, so I like some opinions on whether it's worth pursuing or not.

1. I'm confused about the PAYE rules. Even though I'm an agency worker, am I classed as an employee? Should I be receiving the same rights/entitlements as a full time employee?
My previous contract covered my travel expenses completely so I'm wondering why this is different.

2. Agency workers rights states:

[i]Equal treatment

From the day you start work you have a worker’s employment rights.

You also have the same rights as your permanent colleagues to use any shared facilities and services provided by your employer, for example:

a canteen or food and drinks machines
a workplace creche or mother and baby room
car parking or transport services, like a local pick-up service or transport between sites[/i]

Edited by goldar on Monday 12th June 04:24

[pherlopolus]

Do you have an employment contract that says it is an employment contract, or is it a workers contract?

Does the company have written procedures for this (employee handbook or similar)

I am not an HR person, but we do retain the services of one, and recently went through the worker or employee stage with some roles.

[LukeBrown66]

I can only,y comment on my experience as a FTC.

And that was everything was identical other than the fact they could fire me when they wanted for no reason other than to save money. It was that simple, pay, holiday, benefits, all the same.

[Countdown]

goldar said:

I
1. I'm confused about the PAYE rules. Even though I'm an agency worker, am I classed as an employee? Should I be receiving the same rights/entitlements as a full time employee?
My previous contract covered my travel expenses completely so I'm wondering why this is different.

You're not an employee with the end-client. You're an employee of the Umbrella. Travel expenses rules vary from employer to employer. Some (believe it or not) don't pay ANY expenses for site visits.

goldar said:

I
2. Agency workers rights states:

[i]Equal treatment

From the day you start work you have a worker’s employment rights.

You also have the same rights as your permanent colleagues to use any shared facilities and services provided by your employer, for example:

a canteen or food and drinks machines
a workplace creche or mother and baby room
car parking or transport services, like a local pick-up service or transport between sites[/i]

It looks like mileage is a grey area. Strictly speaking the agency should agree this with the end-client. You should claim mileage from the Agency and they should invoice the employer.

[Collectingbrass]

Sounds like the expenses policy is some combination of
- a bdisation of the mileage rules where you can only claim for the extra distance / cost over and above your normal commute
- the business your umbrella co have put you into not paying travel within London because their expenses policy was written when everyone had a Network South East travel card
- the ultimate client agreement not paying the business travel expenses.

You may have to suck it up, but if it is costing you money over and above your normal commute you can ultimately reclaim the tax paid on this in your Self Assessment at the end of the year. It would be worth checking the "normal place of work" that is in your agreement with the Umbrella Co, that might be at the Hiring Business' office or it might be at your home.

[goldar]

Thanks for the responses.

My actual place of work as stated in my contract is Oxford or something silly. Never been there. I don't have a fixed location within London, even though that's where the sites I'm working on are.
I have queried this all before just after I started the role in February, and I was fobbed off with some sort of reasoning. It costs me £15 a day to travel within London, which adds up if I'm on site for the week.

[OutInTheShed]

goldar said:

Thanks for the responses.

My actual place of work as stated in my contract is Oxford or something silly. Never been there. I don't have a fixed location within London, even though that's where the sites I'm working on are.
I have queried this all before just after I started the role in February, and I was fobbed off with some sort of reasoning. It costs me £15 a day to travel within London, which adds up if I'm on site for the week.

£15 a day is not high for 'normal commuting'. If all your work is in a relatively small area, then HMRC can view that as 'normal commuting' as far as expenses are concerned.
The agency and employer won't want to pay expenses which HMRC won't accept as validly non-taxable.

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OutInTheShed said:

£15 a day is not high for 'normal commuting'. If all your work is in a relatively small area, then HMRC can view that as 'normal commuting' as far as expenses are concerned.
The agency and employer won't want to pay expenses which HMRC won't accept as validly non-taxable.

If his contract says he's based in Oxford then he's entitled to claim expenses for going to other sites.

[goldar]

So where do I go from here?

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goldar said:

So where do I go from here?

Go back to your Agnecy and point out to them that this doesn't feel right. They could negotiate with the end client on your behalf. if the end client says "No" then i think your only option is to accept it. Although you would be able to claim some of the cost back from HMRC.

[OutInTheShed]

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OutInTheShed said:

£15 a day is not high for 'normal commuting'. If all your work is in a relatively small area, then HMRC can view that as 'normal commuting' as far as expenses are concerned.
The agency and employer won't want to pay expenses which HMRC won't accept as validly non-taxable.

If his contract says he's based in Oxford then he's entitled to claim expenses for going to other sites.

Two issues here, the entitlement to claim expenses from the employer and HMRC accepting them as not taxable.

If you live a lot nearer London than Oxford, HMRC may not accept claiming expenses if you go to London instead of Oxford for your day's work.

You can agree what you want with your employer, they can agree to pay you any amount and call it 'travel', but it might be taxable. You can agree to take a job and turn up at various locations and not get travel expenses.

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OutInTheShed said:

Two issues here, the entitlement to claim expenses from the employer and HMRC accepting them as not taxable.

If you live a lot nearer London than Oxford, HMRC may not accept claiming expenses if you go to London instead of Oxford for your day's work.

I’m not sure why they wouldn’t? When I worked in Audit I my head office was in Manchester. However our audit clients were all over the North West. We’d claim mileage the shorter of “Home to Site” and “Office to Site”

OutInTheShed said:

You can agree what you want with your employer, they can agree to pay you any amount and call it 'travel', but it might be taxable. You can agree to take a job and turn up at various locations and not get travel expenses.

I agree. What I should have said was that “he's entitled to claim expenses for going to other sites. If his employer doesn’t pay the full amount of the HMRC approved rates then he’s entitled to claim some expenses back from HMRC”

[goldar]

What if they don't pay any of the travel expenses, am I still entitled to claim from HMRC? How would I go about doing so?

[Collectingbrass]

goldar said:

What if they don't pay any of the travel expenses, am I still entitled to claim from HMRC? How would I go about doing so?

https://www.gov.uk/tax-relief-for-employees/travel-and-overnight-expenses

[OutInTheShed]

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/employmen...

It's best to read it in the firm's time if you can.....