Need some diplomatic advice
Discussion
Hi all,
Started a new role as a contractor on a FTC beginning of May.
In the interview (interviewed by the 2 seniors, not manager) I asked about the possibility of hybrid working, which I confirmed with the recruiter before I even accepted the interview.
I was told that 2/3 days could be possible once I’m trained, until then to come on site.
The manager was there for the first 2 weeks and then went on holiday for 2 weeks coming back on Tuesday. Before the manager left, my car needed the garage, and and that stage I was still going through a load of SOPs on the laptop. I asked if I could WFH for 2 days whilst this occurred and was told no, I’m not trained. Once trained we can talk about it.
Manager goes on holiday, I complete my training and have now taken complete ownership of the process that I was bought in to work on.
Yesterday when manager returned, I asked about arranging hybrid working and was told no. I need to be on site every day because the resource levels in this department are too low and I am going to send an email today to the rest of the team to be back on site full time. (I was already aware of 3 other team members who have been hybrid since I started.)
Ok I thought, fair enough.
However, today the person who sat next to me was not there. Opened up teams, and sure enough he’s logged in.
Sent a messages asking said persons whereabouts. I’m WFH was the reply.
Errrrm, huh?
Yeah, I arranged it yesterday to be able to WFH 1/2 days a week yesterday with the manager (I.el Tuesday when the manager returned from holiday, also the day I was told no).
Cue me wanting to immediately confront manager.
However, I have kept my cool and want to confront this issue, but I don’t know how to raise it.
Go to HR?
Raise it with the people who interviewed me?
How do I raise this diplomatically? without making the manager look an absolute (insert your own word here).
I don’t really know where I stand as a contractor.
They can let me go with a weeks notice, or immediately if gross misconduct occurs, and at the moment I don’t really have anything else to go to.
Sane advice please.
Sorry for the long winded post.
Started a new role as a contractor on a FTC beginning of May.
In the interview (interviewed by the 2 seniors, not manager) I asked about the possibility of hybrid working, which I confirmed with the recruiter before I even accepted the interview.
I was told that 2/3 days could be possible once I’m trained, until then to come on site.
The manager was there for the first 2 weeks and then went on holiday for 2 weeks coming back on Tuesday. Before the manager left, my car needed the garage, and and that stage I was still going through a load of SOPs on the laptop. I asked if I could WFH for 2 days whilst this occurred and was told no, I’m not trained. Once trained we can talk about it.
Manager goes on holiday, I complete my training and have now taken complete ownership of the process that I was bought in to work on.
Yesterday when manager returned, I asked about arranging hybrid working and was told no. I need to be on site every day because the resource levels in this department are too low and I am going to send an email today to the rest of the team to be back on site full time. (I was already aware of 3 other team members who have been hybrid since I started.)
Ok I thought, fair enough.
However, today the person who sat next to me was not there. Opened up teams, and sure enough he’s logged in.
Sent a messages asking said persons whereabouts. I’m WFH was the reply.
Errrrm, huh?
Yeah, I arranged it yesterday to be able to WFH 1/2 days a week yesterday with the manager (I.el Tuesday when the manager returned from holiday, also the day I was told no).
Cue me wanting to immediately confront manager.
However, I have kept my cool and want to confront this issue, but I don’t know how to raise it.
Go to HR?
Raise it with the people who interviewed me?
How do I raise this diplomatically? without making the manager look an absolute (insert your own word here).
I don’t really know where I stand as a contractor.
They can let me go with a weeks notice, or immediately if gross misconduct occurs, and at the moment I don’t really have anything else to go to.
Sane advice please.
Sorry for the long winded post.
Simple. You're a contractor and d
head manager is going to treat you like one.
If you don't like what's happening , move on. Get yourself another role lined up, and move on.
I mean you can try and resolve it, but dhead manager will always resent you if you 'win', and you're not going to be happy doing full time office because that's not what you signed up to.
Of course this all depends on how long the FTC and is the money good or just average.
head manager is going to treat you like one.If you don't like what's happening , move on. Get yourself another role lined up, and move on.
I mean you can try and resolve it, but d
head manager will always resent you if you 'win', and you're not going to be happy doing full time office because that's not what you signed up to. Of course this all depends on how long the FTC and is the money good or just average.
'Confront' is the wrong word and attitude... for the time being.
It's possible that those WFH had made arrangements prior to the new ruling coming into force but going forward, the same will apply to them. No harm in seeking clarification.
Things change. The only really grounds you have for any change in policy is if you are financially impacted. So, if you took the job on the basis of days WFH but the change in policy means you're out of pocket, you could, theoretically, receive compensation or the policy be rescinded.
It's possible that those WFH had made arrangements prior to the new ruling coming into force but going forward, the same will apply to them. No harm in seeking clarification.
Things change. The only really grounds you have for any change in policy is if you are financially impacted. So, if you took the job on the basis of days WFH but the change in policy means you're out of pocket, you could, theoretically, receive compensation or the policy be rescinded.
Bllcks you are a contractor, you are on a fixed one, If it was like my FTC you still get the same perks and on the other side have to do the same bllcks SOP's as permies.
It feels like you have been picked on as the new meat by a manager who doesn't like WFH.
I'd ask HR as it should be a clear company policy now really.
It feels like you have been picked on as the new meat by a manager who doesn't like WFH.
I'd ask HR as it should be a clear company policy now really.
fourstardan said:
Bllcks you are a contractor, you are on a fixed one, If it was like my FTC you still get the same perks and on the other side have to do the same bllcks SOP's as permies.
It feels like you have been picked on as the new meat by a manager who doesn't like WFH.
I'd ask HR as it should be a clear company policy now really.
Manager has quite clearly tried to fob me off. There is no official wfh policy, but on the same day manager told me no, said yes to another team member. It feels like you have been picked on as the new meat by a manager who doesn't like WFH.
I'd ask HR as it should be a clear company policy now really.
Can manager end my FTC because I rock the boat?
StevieBee said:
'Confront' is the wrong word and attitude... for the time being.
It's possible that those WFH had made arrangements prior to the new ruling coming into force but going forward, the same will apply to them. No harm in seeking clarification.
Things change. The only really grounds you have for any change in policy is if you are financially impacted. So, if you took the job on the basis of days WFH but the change in policy means you're out of pocket, you could, theoretically, receive compensation or the policy be rescinded.
This is not the case. It's possible that those WFH had made arrangements prior to the new ruling coming into force but going forward, the same will apply to them. No harm in seeking clarification.
Things change. The only really grounds you have for any change in policy is if you are financially impacted. So, if you took the job on the basis of days WFH but the change in policy means you're out of pocket, you could, theoretically, receive compensation or the policy be rescinded.
The person who arranged their WFH structure on the same day I was told no. It’s seems like one rule for me and another rule for them. This other person came into the department the same day I started from another area of the company where they worked continental shifts.
According to the manager, there is no official wfh policy.
Anyways, I have two 2nd interviews tomorrow for perm roles I had applied for before I even started here.
I’m not going to do anything till next week, and then ask the other team members if manager has truly demanded everyone back on site. Which I can guarantee won’t be the case. I’ll then take it from there.
768 said:
Don't ask, tell and be prepared to leave over it.
(Unless you're really that fond of this contract and not that bothered in which case quietly seethe and suck it up, but I would be, life's too short and it sounds like this won't be the last run in you have with this manager).
I’ve not had any run ins with the manager. (Unless you're really that fond of this contract and not that bothered in which case quietly seethe and suck it up, but I would be, life's too short and it sounds like this won't be the last run in you have with this manager).
It’s all been smiles and light hearted.
I’ve completed training, had a bit of banter. No idea what’s going on.
It could however be a trust thing for a week or two, I remember the good old days before covid and working from home when I started a new job.
Boss on Thursday - "what you doing tonight"
Me - Ah I'm meeting a mate for a bite to eat and drink after work"....
Boss - You better get the VPN setup then!
Boss worked from home Fridays I eventually ended up going on less than being at home in the week.
Boss on Thursday - "what you doing tonight"
Me - Ah I'm meeting a mate for a bite to eat and drink after work"....
Boss - You better get the VPN setup then!
Boss worked from home Fridays I eventually ended up going on less than being at home in the week.
fourstardan said:
It could however be a trust thing for a week or two, I remember the good old days before covid and working from home when I started a new job.
Boss on Thursday - "what you doing tonight"
Me - Ah I'm meeting a mate for a bite to eat and drink after work"....
Boss - You better get the VPN setup then!
Boss worked from home Fridays I eventually ended up going on less than being at home in the week.
I do not accept its a trust thing. Boss on Thursday - "what you doing tonight"
Me - Ah I'm meeting a mate for a bite to eat and drink after work"....
Boss - You better get the VPN setup then!
Boss worked from home Fridays I eventually ended up going on less than being at home in the week.
It’s blatant discrimination as far as I concerned. I am being treated differently.
Manager could have easily spoke to me in the office as it was a simple issue, however I was pulled into a side room and told no.
Are you a self employed Contractor, a temp working through an Agency or an Employee on a FTC?
If it’s either of the first two then HR won’t care. If it’s the latter then you could possibly complain but obviously there’s a risk that you could lose your job.
I know it sounds unfair but Managers have the right to make people work in the office if they think that’s appropriate (or even if they are power crazed micro managers). Unless you’re a contracted homeworker it’s not a “right”
If it’s either of the first two then HR won’t care. If it’s the latter then you could possibly complain but obviously there’s a risk that you could lose your job.
I know it sounds unfair but Managers have the right to make people work in the office if they think that’s appropriate (or even if they are power crazed micro managers). Unless you’re a contracted homeworker it’s not a “right”
I think some on threads like these can go too far too quickly. All this talk of leaving, contracts, demands etc. Take it easy first.
There may be a reason for this, one may be manager being a nobber, it may also be some other reason that's not clear
So I'd first be really calm in approach.
Stages:
1) calmly that your been informed this was a hybrid role when trained. You are now and is there a reason why he was reluctant when you asked last time? (The tone being you're trying to resolve any concerns)
2) if still resistant and he's being a knob say "ok Dave, I understand what you're saying but I'm still left concerned as I'm aware that <other guy> is working in a hybrid fashion..."
3) if still being a knob then one last bid saying "I'm left in a really difficult position now. You don't seem to be being reasonable as I'm trained now, other guy works hybrid, I was told by two seniors and HR I could. Your explanations don't adequately explain why you're resistant...."
... Then either go to HR, or senior boss or just say you're leaving
Depends on how pee'd off you are, how good a role this is, how keen you are for it to work out etc
There may be a reason for this, one may be manager being a nobber, it may also be some other reason that's not clear
So I'd first be really calm in approach.
Stages:
1) calmly that your been informed this was a hybrid role when trained. You are now and is there a reason why he was reluctant when you asked last time? (The tone being you're trying to resolve any concerns)
2) if still resistant and he's being a knob say "ok Dave, I understand what you're saying but I'm still left concerned as I'm aware that <other guy> is working in a hybrid fashion..."
3) if still being a knob then one last bid saying "I'm left in a really difficult position now. You don't seem to be being reasonable as I'm trained now, other guy works hybrid, I was told by two seniors and HR I could. Your explanations don't adequately explain why you're resistant...."
... Then either go to HR, or senior boss or just say you're leaving
Depends on how pee'd off you are, how good a role this is, how keen you are for it to work out etc
Countdown said:
Are you a self employed Contractor, a temp working through an Agency or an Employee on a FTC?
If it’s either of the first two then HR won’t care. If it’s the latter then you could possibly complain but obviously there’s a risk that you could lose your job.
I know it sounds unfair but Managers have the right to make people work in the office if they think that’s appropriate (or even if they are power crazed micro managers). Unless you’re a contracted homeworker it’s not a “right”
This is the important thing OP. If it’s either of the first two then HR won’t care. If it’s the latter then you could possibly complain but obviously there’s a risk that you could lose your job.
I know it sounds unfair but Managers have the right to make people work in the office if they think that’s appropriate (or even if they are power crazed micro managers). Unless you’re a contracted homeworker it’s not a “right”
To be a contractor (and crucially to stay outside of IR35) then freedom to determine where you complete the work must remain with you. There are limited circumstances where you will need to comply with rules like being on-site (eg locum health professionals like pharmacists can only work from the pharmacy itself).
However, because you also state FTC, this is where things aren’t clear. FTC is regular employment (ie PAYE) where you are, and are treated as, a normal employee. In this case the manager’s expectations are what you need to go along with.
OMITN said:
However, because you also state FTC, this is where things aren’t clear. FTC is regular employment (ie PAYE) where you are, and are treated as, a normal employee. In this case the manager’s expectations are what you need to go along with.
I read FTC as a “fixed term contract” - ie. As opposed to an FTE - “full time employee” but maybe I’ve got my acronyms wrong. What would FTC mean for it to be regular employment?
fat80b said:
I read FTC as a “fixed term contract” - ie. As opposed to an FTE - “full time employee” but maybe I’ve got my acronyms wrong.
What would FTC mean for it to be regular employment?
Yes. FTC means a Fixed Term Contract usually on PAYE.What would FTC mean for it to be regular employment?
Although, arguable, you could argue that you were a Contractor on a "Fixed term Contract" but then surely if you're a self employed contractor you're contracted to carry out a piece of work, rather than for a specific number of hours/days.
OMITN said:
This is the important thing OP.
To be a contractor (and crucially to stay outside of IR35) then freedom to determine where you complete the work must remain with you. There are limited circumstances where you will need to comply with rules like being on-site (eg locum health professionals like pharmacists can only work from the pharmacy itself).
However, because you also state FTC, this is where things aren’t clear. FTC is regular employment (ie PAYE) where you are, and are treated as, a normal employee. In this case the manager’s expectations are what you need to go along with.
So to clarify, I took on a 12 month FTC for a maternity cover. To be a contractor (and crucially to stay outside of IR35) then freedom to determine where you complete the work must remain with you. There are limited circumstances where you will need to comply with rules like being on-site (eg locum health professionals like pharmacists can only work from the pharmacy itself).
However, because you also state FTC, this is where things aren’t clear. FTC is regular employment (ie PAYE) where you are, and are treated as, a normal employee. In this case the manager’s expectations are what you need to go along with.
My contract is with the agency that was instructed to find a placement.
I am a PAYE employee for the duration of the contact.
Like I have pointed out, the manager is clearly treating me differently to the other team members.
Manager has told me one thing, and done the direct opposite with another team member.
It doesn’t bode well, as I have applied for a permanent position there (because when I started, another team member had handed their notice in literally the week before and has since left).
I don’t know what to do and how to raise this properly.
I have clearly been lied to my face by the manager who has stated that they are going to end wfh for the team, but agreed with another team member for their ability to wfh on the SAME day.
I have this conversation on teams chat as evidence and blatant discrimination.
There was absolutely no expectation relayed to me by the manager.
When I initially asked for wfh 2 weeks after starting, I was told I’m not trained.
Now I have been blatantly lied to.
Had a similar thing a while ago, interview for job when I was told I could be hybrid, final face to face with the MD/owner who reiterated it was hybrid with the possibility of work from anywhere as they used to have an employee who worked out of Spain.
Thought it was a great role as my old one was permanently wfh so jumped ship.. essentially they changed the rules between mi accepting and my first day to 100% on site.
Talking to some of the other new starters over the next month or so, all had been fed the same line…. Anyhow made the decision to jump to another new role very easy, the owner was pissed as he had paid an agency to find me
Thought it was a great role as my old one was permanently wfh so jumped ship.. essentially they changed the rules between mi accepting and my first day to 100% on site.
Talking to some of the other new starters over the next month or so, all had been fed the same line…. Anyhow made the decision to jump to another new role very easy, the owner was pissed as he had paid an agency to find me
Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff