Threat of redundancy

[Andy665]

Currently under threat of redundancy

First meeting with HR and line manager last week where I was advised I will be treated as a "priority candidate" for an internal position where there is a strong skill / experience set match.

It was volunteered verbally and confirmed in writing that salary / conditions will be carried over untouched.

Had initial meeting with hiring manager yesterday, all went well until he asked me my salary expectations - I advised that I had been told it would continue as per current - he ended the meeting after telling me that he cannot get with £10k of what I'm currently earning.

Can the company simply say that they made a mistake in stating that package will be the same or have I got a possible case against them should they try and push me into a position with a much lower salary.

Appreciate I can turn the position down and accept my redundancy fate but the job appeals - just not with such a big drop

[Chipstick]

In your position I'd refer back to HR that you'd had the meeting with the manager and the salary expectations were highlighted as being a concern of theirs. Perhaps the hiring manager isn't familiar with the terms you've received in writing.

[Car bon]

As above - assuming you're interested in the role, back to HR.

It's not unusual to have this sort of transitional arrangement - what it will probably mean though is that your salary is capped - no increases - until the rate for the role catches up with where you currently are. So it's really a glide path down to a lower salary.

It can be a tough decision whether to accept a lower salary over the medium term vs redundancy now & find a new external role.

[Dog Star]

Assuming you’re in for an even half decent payout I’d take redundancy.

[zedx19]

If it's a decent payout, take the redundancy and get job hunting, you may find another role quickly and get to bank a good payout from redundancy.

[LukeBrown66]

I was dumped in March fella (third time in my working life), had zero idea it was coming, been biter about it for a few weeks now, because it was purely over money, nothing to do with performance or anything, just shareholders doing what they do before year end.

But rather that than having the axe hanging over me, that is far worse.

[mrmistoffelees]

Happened to me a few years back, took the redundancy, a week off and started a new position after the week off on the same money but with better terms.

[clockworks]

Happened to me 3 times as an IT field engineer. First one I had 19 years service. They asked for volunteers first, before going for compulsory. I put my hand up, got about 6 month's salary, 3 month's gardening leave with the company car. I relocated, signed on for 5 months, then got a similar job.

Unfortunately the new employer lost a major contract, so I was out of work after just 7 months, minimal payout.

Luckily I got another decent job while still on my notice period. Stayed there for 12 years, took voluntary redundancy again. Well over a year's salary this time. I signed on for a few months, and took a part time low- pressure job and spent the rest of the week self-employed.

Redundancy worked out well for me, paying off my mortgage and pushing me to do what I really wanted

[deja.vu]

Andy665 said:

Can the company simply say that they made a mistake in stating that package will be the same or have I got a possible case against them should they try and push me into a position with a much lower salary.

They aren’t pushing you into anything, if it doesn’t fit then take the package, I’m sure they will find someone else suitable and you’ve saved them from redundancy.

No case what so ever, but hopefully HR can speak to the hiring manager and whoever owns that P&L and they can resolve.

[carboy2017]

on the topic of redundancy what would be the legal compensation an employer need to pay for someone with 6 years service (myself) as there is a chance it may happen in my workplace in the near future

[Chipstick]

carboy2017 said:

on the topic of redundancy what would be the legal compensation an employer need to pay for someone with 6 years service (myself) as there is a chance it may happen in my workplace in the near future

https://www.gov.uk/redundancy-your-rights/redundancy-pay

[Muzzer79]

Andy665 said:

Currently under threat of redundancy

Can the company simply say that they made a mistake in stating that package will be the same or have I got a possible case against them should they try and push me into a position with a much lower salary.

Appreciate I can turn the position down and accept my redundancy fate but the job appeals - just not with such a big drop

I too don't see how you're being pushed into anything.

Your role is being made redundant. The fact there's another job is optional for you.

Either take it (and the corresponding money) or take your redundancy.

Good luck, hope it works out.

[Andy665]

Muzzer79 said:

I too don't see how you're being pushed into anything.

Your role is being made redundant. The fact there's another job is optional for you.

Either take it (and the corresponding money) or take your redundancy.

Good luck, hope it works out.

Perhaps I should qualify what I wrote.

There are two positions available - one which is a close match to my current role and carries the same salary, one is a very much more junior position with a 20k drop in package, hiring manager is suggesting he would only want me in the junior position, even though I am fully capable of the comparable role to my current one.

Fully aware I'm not being pushed into anything and they do not have to offer me anything

A further twist is that although my role is being made redundant, no one else in the team has been considered for redundancy and I have been asked if I want to carry on doing the work as an external "vendor"

[Muzzer79]

Andy665 said:

Muzzer79 said:

I too don't see how you're being pushed into anything.

Your role is being made redundant. The fact there's another job is optional for you.

Either take it (and the corresponding money) or take your redundancy.

Good luck, hope it works out.

Perhaps I should qualify what I wrote.

There are two positions available - one which is a close match to my current role and carries the same salary, one is a very much more junior position with a 20k drop in package, hiring manager is suggesting he would only want me in the junior position, even though I am fully capable of the comparable role to my current one.

Fully aware I'm not being pushed into anything and they do not have to offer me anything

A further twist is that although my role is being made redundant, no one else in the team has been considered for redundancy and I have been asked if I want to carry on doing the work as an external "vendor"

OK.

Firstly, you need a reason from the hiring manager why you are not suitable for the role that is a close match. If you're being made redundant from one role and are skilled enough to do this other job, it's a brave HR department who wouldn't put you through for it.

Secondly

Andy665 said:

A further twist is that although my role is being made redundant, no one else in the team has been considered for redundancy and I have been asked if I want to carry on doing the work as an external "vendor"

Does anyone else in your team have the same job title? Remember, roles are made redundant and not people.

It sounds like they are trying to get you off the permanent headcount, possibly for cost-cutting reasons. But do they want you as a contractor or do they want to offer you another role?
It sounds like they are steering you into a contractor role by not considering you for the equivalent role but you need to probe this and question why you aren't being offered something which is comparable to your current job and that you are (presumably) fully qualified and trained to do.

[vaud]

Muzzer79 said:

Does anyone else in your team have the same job title? Remember, roles are made redundant and not people.

It sounds like they are trying to get you off the permanent headcount, possibly for cost-cutting reasons. But do they want you as a contractor or do they want to offer you another role?
It sounds like they are steering you into a contractor role by not considering you for the equivalent role but you need to probe this and question why you aren't being offered something which is comparable to your current job and that you are (presumably) fully qualified and trained to do.

Presumable so that they can contract him and then let him go, saving them a bunch of costs.

[Andy665]

vaud said:

Presumable so that they can contract him and then let him go, saving them a bunch of costs.

I am keeping the two completely apart, they have not been a great company to work for so leaving with redundancy is not necessarily a bad option for me, even at the age of 55, certainly a better option than taking on a very junior role which would bore me senseless and have to endure a £20k pay cut at the same time, rather take my chances out on the open market.

Working as a vendor for them doing what I am currently doing now is something I would be happy to discuss with them post redundancy package settlement / agreement - as I set up many of the vendors we currently use I know what i can charge and can justify a premium as I know the inner workings of all areas of the business I would be working in / on

[Muzzer79]

Andy665 said:

vaud said:

Presumable so that they can contract him and then let him go, saving them a bunch of costs.

I am keeping the two completely apart, they have not been a great company to work for so leaving with redundancy is not necessarily a bad option for me, even at the age of 55, certainly a better option than taking on a very junior role which would bore me senseless and have to endure a £20k pay cut at the same time, rather take my chances out on the open market.

Working as a vendor for them doing what I am currently doing now is something I would be happy to discuss with them post redundancy package settlement / agreement - as I set up many of the vendors we currently use I know what i can charge and can justify a premium as I know the inner workings of all areas of the business I would be working in / on

It sounds like your aspirations are probably aligned with theirs.

Recommend a chat with whoever is handling this process from the company's end and cutting to the chase.
i.e:

I am happy to leave with (x)
I am happy to contract with you on (y) terms.
I want a contract of (z) months

Does that work for us both?

[vaud]

Andy665 said:

I am keeping the two completely apart, they have not been a great company to work for so leaving with redundancy is not necessarily a bad option for me, even at the age of 55, certainly a better option than taking on a very junior role which would bore me senseless and have to endure a £20k pay cut at the same time, rather take my chances out on the open market.

Working as a vendor for them doing what I am currently doing now is something I would be happy to discuss with them post redundancy package settlement / agreement - as I set up many of the vendors we currently use I know what i can charge and can justify a premium as I know the inner workings of all areas of the business I would be working in / on

If they haven't been great to work for, you'll probably find they are even worse as a supplier. Late payment, etc... use you as cashflow.

[Andy665]

vaud said:

If they haven't been great to work for, you'll probably find they are even worse as a supplier. Late payment, etc... use you as cashflow.

One of the few things that they are good at is paying on time so no real concerns there

[Panamax]

Andy665 said:

leaving with redundancy is not necessarily a bad option for me, even at the age of 55,

At that age you need to make darned sure you fully understand any pension implications. It has the potential to be a very big feature in your decision making. All depends on type of pension scheme, length of service etc.

amongst other things, if you take a significant redundancy payout you can shelter it from income tax if you play your cards right.