12 Month Probation period?

[yozzer]

Hi,

I have received a new job offer recently which has a 12 month probation period and I just wanted to get an opinion from others on this.

The most I have had previously is a 3-month period which had a structured route out of probation (i.e. KPIs and milestones etc), this new company has no probation process or policy ( I have asked to see it) which makes me think it is a bit of a risk to accept on these terms.

the detail is I would have to give three months' notice to leave after being employed for one month, but they could get rid of me with a weeks notice up to 12 months.

Other details which may or may not be relevant:
The salary is +£10k on my current salary
The company is small and growing quickly but is still very much in a small company mentality (i.e no processes etc laid out)

I have spoken to two of my LinkedIn contacts, both recruiters, to see what they thought and they too had never seen such a long probation and suggested it is weighted too much in the benefit of the company and leaves me exposed.

I have raised this with the HR person who stated the 12 months probation is standard across all their employee contracts.

Please could you give me your opinions on this? Thanks

[randlemarcus]

Given they can terminate at any point up to two years with no reason, a 12 month probation doesn't sound dreadful. The mismatched notice periods don't sound great, and while opportunity comes from chaos, so do headaches. Disregarding the HR bod, how did the interview go from your side?

[Austin_Metro]

Practically speaking, a written probation policy would often allow an extension of the period from 3 or 6 months, at the employer’s option. So having 12 months from the start isn’t that different.

Which just brings you to the notice period and what they pay if they terminate at a week’s notice. What period of payment would you need to cover you before finding a new job? What paid notice period do you have now?

So whilst their standard one week could stand, you could ask that you be paid for a month or two months etc.

Might be a middle ground that protects both your and their interests.

[Simon_GH]

I agree with above. If you don’t meet the conditions of the probation period then you could be out; equally, with no probation period, the same could apply with respect to meeting expectations.

I think a long probation period sounds harsh but it may not matter in reality should a company wish to move you on,

Would you consider the role if it was a temporary contract? How important is stability vs potential income? Is this company a good step into you next position and worth the (perceived) risk?

[yozzer]

randlemarcus said:

Given they can terminate at any point up to two years with no reason, a 12 month probation doesn't sound dreadful. The mismatched notice periods don't sound great, and while opportunity comes from chaos, so do headaches. Disregarding the HR bod, how did the interview go from your side?

Really well, the overall manager and my direct line manager seem very decent and it seemed like a good fit from the initial informal chat.

They seemed keen to offer me and there was no negotiation required on the salary they just offered the top salary available for the position.

[yozzer]

Simon_GH said:

I agree with above. If you don’t meet the conditions of the probation period then you could be out; equally, with no probation period, the same could apply with respect to meeting expectations.

I think a long probation period sounds harsh but it may not matter in reality should a company wish to move you on,

Would you consider the role if it was a temporary contract? How important is stability vs potential income? Is this company a good step into you next position and worth the (perceived) risk?

the move is positive for me and i am a good fit for the company as it will grow (i have been part of start ups and growing companies before which is one of the reasons they liked me)
It is really only this issue that is a sticking point, in all other respects the role is what I wanted.

[yozzer]

Austin_Metro said:

Practically speaking, a written probation policy would often allow an extension of the period from 3 or 6 months, at the employer’s option. So having 12 months from the start isn’t that different.

Which just brings you to the notice period and what they pay if they terminate at a week’s notice. What period of payment would you need to cover you before finding a new job? What paid notice period do you have now?

So whilst their standard one week could stand, you could ask that you be paid for a month or two months etc.

Might be a middle ground that protects both your and their interests.

I dont really need more than a week if I am honest, my current notice is 3 months.

[Simon_GH]

yozzer said:

the move is positive for me and i am a good fit for the company as it will grow (i have been part of start ups and growing companies before which is one of the reasons they liked me)
It is really only this issue that is a sticking point, in all other respects the role is what I wanted.

I’d see it more as poor choice of words for a contract then and not worry about it. Might be worth raising once you’ve started though because it could impact future recruitment.

[yozzer]

Thanks all for your comments, I think I will proceed with this role but highlight to them the fact it is a very long probation period and see what comes of it.

thank you all for taking the time to comment on this, I appreciate it.

[mattybrown]

Are there any benefits that only commence on successful completion of your probation period?

[bigandclever]

mattybrown said:

Are there any benefits that only commence on successful completion of your probation period?

That caught me out at my new place, albeit it was a 3 month probation. No employer pension contribution, no BUPA, etc until after the 3 months was up. I didn't ask and they didn't tell me that was the deal.

[dibblecorse]

Never accept mismatched notice periods, its the sign of a company that doesn't trust it's hiring process, have you checked Glassdoor etc for any feedback or looked for ex employees on LinkedIn to see the kind of tenure they had ?

I work in tech, industry standard for most the world is 6 months probation although we have some anomalies but notice periods are always mirrored.

[snuffy]

Years ago I started a new job and on day one they gave me a contract that said either side could terminate the contract with immediate effect within the first 3 months.

After 2 months, I terminated the contract, but I did give them a weeks notice. They got quite upset that I was leaving but giving them so little notice. I found that quite odd considering it was they that had stared zero notice.

Also, I'd had more than one argument about my terms and conditions, all of which they had failed to mention at the interview, within my first week or so. We didn't get off to a good start and it was never going to improve.

The point I'm making is that if you are not happy with the contract from day one, you will most likely never be happy about the job.

[Jasandjules]

When do benefits come into effect? Is anything predicated upon the probationary period such as any benefits (pension for example?). If not, then it is of no concern as it does not really have any effect in any event practically speaking, an employer can simply say "it is not working out" at any time until you have your two year anniversary...

The concern I would have is with a disparate notice period. That is not reasonable to my mind.

[GilletteFan]

Your offer sounds more like probation than a probationary period.

I would not be signing this and recommend you get a 12 month contract with higher remuneration in light of the change in job type.

[pb3000]

yozzer said:

Hi,

the detail is I would have to give three months' notice to leave after being employed for one month, but they could get rid of me with a weeks notice up to 12 months.

This term seems rather unfair, however I am not a lawyer and this is only my opinion - based on seeing this specific term in isolation of the whole contract . Still I would be relucant to sign with any employer insisting on notice terms so weighted in their favour.

Is this outfit North American by chance?

[Sir Bagalot]

Don't get too hung up on the 12 months probation. As other have said they can terminate your contract in the first two years because they don't like the colour of your socks.

Check when benefits start. With a 12 mont probation I would want benefits from Day 1

yozzer said:

the detail is I would have to give three months' notice to leave after being employed for one month, but they could get rid of me with a weeks notice up to 12 months.

For me, this is a MAJOR red flag and unacceptable. I wouldn't sign that contact and would inform them that the notice must be equal on both sides.

I worked for such a firm. 3 months notice my side, one month on theirs. It was a sticking point that I wasn't prepared to move on. I gave them several options in a verbal discussion. 1, 2 or 3 months on both sides. For the first month I was happy with 1 week. We settled on 1 week in the first month and then 2 months on both sides. I had to sign a NDA.

Transpired the HR team were fking useless

[cliffords]

Sir Bagalot said:

For me, this is a MAJOR red flag and unacceptable. I wouldn't sign that contact and would inform them that the notice must be equal on both sides.

I worked for such a firm. 3 months notice my side, one month on theirs. It was a sticking point that I wasn't prepared to move on. I gave them several options in a verbal discussion. 1, 2 or 3 months on both sides. For the first month I was happy with 1 week. We settled on 1 week in the first month and then 2 months on both sides. I had to sign a NDA.

Transpired the HR team were fking useless

What was the NDA ? Was there something you were not supposed to share ....

[dibblecorse]

cliffords said:

Sir Bagalot said:

For me, this is a MAJOR red flag and unacceptable. I wouldn't sign that contact and would inform them that the notice must be equal on both sides.

I worked for such a firm. 3 months notice my side, one month on theirs. It was a sticking point that I wasn't prepared to move on. I gave them several options in a verbal discussion. 1, 2 or 3 months on both sides. For the first month I was happy with 1 week. We settled on 1 week in the first month and then 2 months on both sides. I had to sign a NDA.

Transpired the HR team were fking useless

What was the NDA ? Was there something you were not supposed to share ....

Yes, the fact that they had issued him a non standard contract.

[Sir Bagalot]

dibblecorse said:

cliffords said:

Sir Bagalot said:

For me, this is a MAJOR red flag and unacceptable. I wouldn't sign that contact and would inform them that the notice must be equal on both sides.

I worked for such a firm. 3 months notice my side, one month on theirs. It was a sticking point that I wasn't prepared to move on. I gave them several options in a verbal discussion. 1, 2 or 3 months on both sides. For the first month I was happy with 1 week. We settled on 1 week in the first month and then 2 months on both sides. I had to sign a NDA.

Transpired the HR team were fking useless

What was the NDA ? Was there something you were not supposed to share ....

Yes, the fact that they had issued him a non standard contract.

They didn't want other staff to know.