Job offer – is this a major red flag?
Discussion
I've recently interviewed at a company that seems quite promising.
With only 40 employees, they are a small business, and the interview process was reasonably robust, which gives me confidence that they don't hire the first person that comes along.
They've come back to me and verbally offered me the position, but they have asked if I can wait until next month before they make me a formal offer, as the contracts they were hoping to have signed haven't been secured yet, and they don't want me sat there with no work to do.
I worry that the position is not all that secure if it depends on new business. What if the project goes on hold in six months, or no new projects come along after this one is finished, is my job then redundant? None of us can answer this, but that's my worry.
Other than that, its a rise of about £12k, so it's worth it from a monetary perspective.
With only 40 employees, they are a small business, and the interview process was reasonably robust, which gives me confidence that they don't hire the first person that comes along.
They've come back to me and verbally offered me the position, but they have asked if I can wait until next month before they make me a formal offer, as the contracts they were hoping to have signed haven't been secured yet, and they don't want me sat there with no work to do.
I worry that the position is not all that secure if it depends on new business. What if the project goes on hold in six months, or no new projects come along after this one is finished, is my job then redundant? None of us can answer this, but that's my worry.
Other than that, its a rise of about £12k, so it's worth it from a monetary perspective.
StuTheGrouch said:
...You could potentially use this as a means of negotiating a pay increase at your existing employer though...
I don't think that this is a good idea. In my last job I tried for two years to get the pay increase I felt I deserved, eventually ending up moving to a job with one of our competitors. When I gave in my notice, they could suddenly pay me whatever I wanted. I still left.Regarding the OP's question - I would also question the long-term viability of the job/company. I personally wouldn't go for it.
Would worry me a fair bit tbh.
You don't jump in to a role in a new company overnight. They should be grateful of the time to get you up to speed before the contracts land to allow you to be efficient when they arrive.
Sounds like there's a pretty good chance they may not get signed!
They've potentially done you a favour!
How about they give you a contract based on a later start date which you both sign. If all OK in a month (and they confirm this) you can hand your notice in. This "should" secure the role. Otherwise, I'd keep on looking tbh. Sounds like they don't need you "that" much and they're still looking... Sadly.
You don't jump in to a role in a new company overnight. They should be grateful of the time to get you up to speed before the contracts land to allow you to be efficient when they arrive.
Sounds like there's a pretty good chance they may not get signed!
They've potentially done you a favour!
How about they give you a contract based on a later start date which you both sign. If all OK in a month (and they confirm this) you can hand your notice in. This "should" secure the role. Otherwise, I'd keep on looking tbh. Sounds like they don't need you "that" much and they're still looking... Sadly.
On the other hand a small business will have tight margins. They may be expanding and knew they’d have to increase capacity but didn’t want to be paying someone they’re under utilising.
I can see where there would be concern but without knowing the nature of the business and contracts it’s hard to really say.
I can see where there would be concern but without knowing the nature of the business and contracts it’s hard to really say.
I was in a similar position in that the funding for my job depended on work coming in. The difference was that I had no other job at the time and had nothing to lose. It worked out, fwiw. Also they were very clear with me up front.
I would be open and say it's a concern and ask them outright - is this position viable without that work? All part of your risk assessment. Maybe they can sweeten it further if there is indeed risk.
I would be open and say it's a concern and ask them outright - is this position viable without that work? All part of your risk assessment. Maybe they can sweeten it further if there is indeed risk.
3xAAA said:
I worry that the position is not all that secure if it depends on new business. What if the project goes on hold in six months, or no new projects come along after this one is finished, is my job then redundant? None of us can answer this, but that's my worry.
Is that not literally the situation for just about every business and any position within?Obviously the bigger they are the more safe you'd feel but big businesses go tits up too. The only real security is public sector imo.
StuTheGrouch said:
What is your current situation? How long have you been at your current employer and why were you looking to leave?
I've been at my current place for a few years, the job itself is fine, but management is crazy and changes their long-term strategy and vision every 3 months. I also had part of my bonus unjustly docked by my manager last year, and the directors and HR weren't bothered. A few of us have also had our bonus capped this year too.
The job would be great if not for management.
ZedLeg said:
On the other hand a small business will have tight margins. They may be expanding and knew they’d have to increase capacity but didn’t want to be paying someone they’re under utilising.
I can see where there would be concern but without knowing the nature of the business and contracts it’s hard to really say.
They were established eight years ago, and appear to be growing exponentially, at least from what I've been told/read. I can see where there would be concern but without knowing the nature of the business and contracts it’s hard to really say.
The role pays close to £90k, so it'll be increasing their outgoings more so than a position that paid £20k.
Edited by 3xAAA on Monday 8th May 21:24
technodup said:
3xAAA said:
I worry that the position is not all that secure if it depends on new business. What if the project goes on hold in six months, or no new projects come along after this one is finished, is my job then redundant? None of us can answer this, but that's my worry.
Is that not literally the situation for just about every business and any position within?Obviously the bigger they are the more safe you'd feel but big businesses go tits up too. The only real security is public sector imo.
3xAAA said:
They were established eight years ago, and appear to be growing exponentially, at least from what I've been told/read.
The role pays close to £90k, so it'll be increasing their outgoings more so than a position that paid £20k.
Big move for an extra £600 in your pocket each month. imhoThe role pays close to £90k, so it'll be increasing their outgoings more so than a position that paid £20k.
Edited by 3xAAA on Monday 8th May 21:24
Easy to fall back into a similar role on similar pay if it all goes worng?
How easy/difficult is it to find another job in 12 months time? If it's not easy and you're worried about the new place, maybe makes more sense to stay where you are. If it's very easy, then not so much to worry about.
That said, it's always easier staying where you are, but generally with a little risk come bigger rewards.
That said, it's always easier staying where you are, but generally with a little risk come bigger rewards.
Sounds like some body shopping operation?
I would have thought they would want to get you in to ingrain the culture and build some rapport with your fellow colleagues?
Not a major red flag if it's a professional services firm. I personally would walk away though as I'd like to think that keeping me around for my humour rather than paying their salaries.
I would have thought they would want to get you in to ingrain the culture and build some rapport with your fellow colleagues?
Not a major red flag if it's a professional services firm. I personally would walk away though as I'd like to think that keeping me around for my humour rather than paying their salaries.
Some years ago I moved from a company with '000s of employees, with a work horizon of 5 years, to one with 12 employees where we weren't always sure what we'd be doing next week. For a bump in money, of course.
It's a culture shock, but I got used to it. It was a growing company, and something always turned up. Stayed with them 4 years.
It's a culture shock, but I got used to it. It was a growing company, and something always turned up. Stayed with them 4 years.
3xAAA said:
I worry that the position is not all that secure if it depends on new business.
Unless you're working in the Public Sector or big companies, this applies anywhere you might work. Business has to won to generate the revenue to pay staff. No revenue, no staff. It's common for businesses to scale up in readiness for an expected increase in work load. If there's a delay in that workload happening then it's reasonable to hold off on the scale-up.
You should look at things like how long the company has been operating, how often they hire, what's the attrition rate like? These are the things that should give you the confidence you need... or not.
GilletteFan said:
3xAAA said:
Great advice thanks.
I'll see if I can find this out.
I wouldn't work for such an operation as they would can people at the first sign of a very thin book of business. I'll see if I can find this out.
This really isn't unusual in smaller companies; though perhaps unusual they've told you. They'll not have the headroom for highly paid people to sit there doing very little.
We're a company of 14 and when making offers to cover new work we'll generally try and tie starting dates close to the project starts. It doesn't always work out completely, but where it doesn't there's always something to do until the project starts up.
We're a company of 14 and when making offers to cover new work we'll generally try and tie starting dates close to the project starts. It doesn't always work out completely, but where it doesn't there's always something to do until the project starts up.
OP here.
I was explaining my situation to two trusted colleagues of mine, both of who are in the same role as I am.
I was surprised when they both told me that our current employer, a £1 billion revenue business, made them wait 3 months before making a formal offer for the exact same reasons I stated in my original post.
Maybe it’s not as unusual as I thought in the world of professional services.
It’s certainly made me feel more positive about my new prospective role.
I was explaining my situation to two trusted colleagues of mine, both of who are in the same role as I am.
I was surprised when they both told me that our current employer, a £1 billion revenue business, made them wait 3 months before making a formal offer for the exact same reasons I stated in my original post.
Maybe it’s not as unusual as I thought in the world of professional services.
It’s certainly made me feel more positive about my new prospective role.
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