Why are engineers paid so badly in the UK?
Discussion
I'm an American mechanical engineer. Since I started work in 2005, the British engineers at my company have always been some of the best there, everyone from the fresh graduates to the manager I had who'd convinced senior American management that "two A-levels and an HND" were some exotic qualifications that obviously suited a senior role in advanced projects.
After a recent layoff, I looked worldwide - and was absolutely appalled by how little British companies paid every engineer everywhere. Jobs that I'd be suitable for at JLR and JCB paid less than 53000 GBP, barely a third of what I ended up taking. Graduate roles were going for less than you can legally pay anyone in California. It wasn't just one industry posting these discouraging numbers, it was universal.
How do you ever convince anyone to struggle through the math and physics required to become an engineer? How does any company retain their engineers when either learning French and crossing the Channel or grabbing an H-1B and crossing the Atlantic takes you from "two jumpers and thick woolen socks" to "check out the Mitsubishi minisplits I installed this weekend" ?
After a recent layoff, I looked worldwide - and was absolutely appalled by how little British companies paid every engineer everywhere. Jobs that I'd be suitable for at JLR and JCB paid less than 53000 GBP, barely a third of what I ended up taking. Graduate roles were going for less than you can legally pay anyone in California. It wasn't just one industry posting these discouraging numbers, it was universal.
How do you ever convince anyone to struggle through the math and physics required to become an engineer? How does any company retain their engineers when either learning French and crossing the Channel or grabbing an H-1B and crossing the Atlantic takes you from "two jumpers and thick woolen socks" to "check out the Mitsubishi minisplits I installed this weekend" ?
Tell me about it! Production engineer here with 12 years experience. Was having a look at Spacex the other day and salaries for my role start at $95k, or over £76k. A production engineering manager in the UK will be on less than that. Role with my experience level might be $125k+.
Their principle electronics engineers start on $200k. Obviously Spacex is just one example, and doubtless they except long hours, but the incentives are there.
The sector is definitely in the slow lane here.
Their principle electronics engineers start on $200k. Obviously Spacex is just one example, and doubtless they except long hours, but the incentives are there.
The sector is definitely in the slow lane here.
americancrx said:
I'm an American mechanical engineer. Since I started work in 2005, the British engineers at my company have always been some of the best there, everyone from the fresh graduates to the manager I had who'd convinced senior American management that "two A-levels and an HND" were some exotic qualifications that obviously suited a senior role in advanced projects.
After a recent layoff, I looked worldwide - and was absolutely appalled by how little British companies paid every engineer everywhere. Jobs that I'd be suitable for at JLR and JCB paid less than 53000 GBP, barely a third of what I ended up taking. Graduate roles were going for less than you can legally pay anyone in California. It wasn't just one industry posting these discouraging numbers, it was universal.
How do you ever convince anyone to struggle through the math and physics required to become an engineer? How does any company retain their engineers when either learning French and crossing the Channel or grabbing an H-1B and crossing the Atlantic takes you from "two jumpers and thick woolen socks" to "check out the Mitsubishi minisplits I installed this weekend" ?
I lasted 2 years after my degree before deciding the pay was crap and was likely to stay crap. After a recent layoff, I looked worldwide - and was absolutely appalled by how little British companies paid every engineer everywhere. Jobs that I'd be suitable for at JLR and JCB paid less than 53000 GBP, barely a third of what I ended up taking. Graduate roles were going for less than you can legally pay anyone in California. It wasn't just one industry posting these discouraging numbers, it was universal.
How do you ever convince anyone to struggle through the math and physics required to become an engineer? How does any company retain their engineers when either learning French and crossing the Channel or grabbing an H-1B and crossing the Atlantic takes you from "two jumpers and thick woolen socks" to "check out the Mitsubishi minisplits I installed this weekend" ?
Joined the Army and was paid 25% more while I was still in basic training
I left Mechanical Engineering after 14 years. I completed my Advanced Modern apprenticeship straight out of school and mostly ran CNC Milling machines and Routers, Setting, Programming, Operating as well as CAD/CAM.
I think I ended up £15 P/H eventually which equated to around £35k with overtime. Around the same time there was a huge influx of Polish workers which kept wages stagnant and these guys were also up for doing continental shifts.
I’ve been out for 10 years now and Brexit means the foreign workers have left but with the advances in CAD/CAM (so easy a Kid can do it) I can’t see things improving much either.
I think I ended up £15 P/H eventually which equated to around £35k with overtime. Around the same time there was a huge influx of Polish workers which kept wages stagnant and these guys were also up for doing continental shifts.
I’ve been out for 10 years now and Brexit means the foreign workers have left but with the advances in CAD/CAM (so easy a Kid can do it) I can’t see things improving much either.
UK headline salaries are substantially lower than US salaries in most industries and rolls. Engineering is not unusual in that regard. You have to look at it in the round. There's a lot more to the choice between living in the UK or US than headline salary differentials.
It's more instructive to compare UK engineering salaries to salaries in other professions in the UK. Doesn't paint a rosy picture, but at least you're comparing apples with apples.
It's more instructive to compare UK engineering salaries to salaries in other professions in the UK. Doesn't paint a rosy picture, but at least you're comparing apples with apples.
Edited by ATG on Wednesday 26th April 08:16
It didn't take me long out of Uni with a Mec Eng to realise that the local engineering firms weren't going to pay me enough to live a decent life in the SE. Moved across to civil and local authority and now earn more than those OP jobs (as a manager).
They should be paid more (and officially recognised) but there are extra costs in the US, my BiL in Seattle pays more just to get his rubbish taken then I do in Council Tax.
They should be paid more (and officially recognised) but there are extra costs in the US, my BiL in Seattle pays more just to get his rubbish taken then I do in Council Tax.
TGCOTF-dewey said:
I think it depends on what type of engineering and the organisation.
Nuclear attracts a significant enhancement on those salary rates mentioned. For example, I would typically have to pay >1k per diem for principals.
This is also exactly my experience. I found the only way to half decent salary/day rate in engineering was to move into a specialised field, such as Nuclear or Pharmaceutical. Easier said than done (usually geographical constraints), but the nuclear market in particular is crying out for decent engineers...in many cases, employers will also finance the clearance element for those without.Nuclear attracts a significant enhancement on those salary rates mentioned. For example, I would typically have to pay >1k per diem for principals.
When I graduated back in 2007, I was on less money than all of my degree qualified peers of the same age (Accounts, Project Management, IT), except for one of the lads who decided to just work in a pub for a bit....even then he wasn't far off. My rate of salary increase for the first 3/4 years was also dismal and I was working long hours and being put in some quite stressful positions to boot. It took a step out of the commercial world and gaining security clearance to make any substantial difference.
Edited by MattyD803 on Wednesday 26th April 08:50
Like for like qualifications/experience I don't know how the UK is compared with the other countries.
What I do know is the term 'Engineer' is so diluted in the UK, working out an average over here would not be a true representation of what an 'Engineer' earns.
Chartered Engineer UK salary Vs Chartered Engineer XX salary maybe a good base line comparison, then taking to account XX countries tax, cost of living ect.
I'm a Mech Engineer in the gas industry, for the UK it's good, not the highest payers for consultants though. Perks, work/life and so on keep it attractive.
What I do know is the term 'Engineer' is so diluted in the UK, working out an average over here would not be a true representation of what an 'Engineer' earns.
Chartered Engineer UK salary Vs Chartered Engineer XX salary maybe a good base line comparison, then taking to account XX countries tax, cost of living ect.
I'm a Mech Engineer in the gas industry, for the UK it's good, not the highest payers for consultants though. Perks, work/life and so on keep it attractive.
WelshRich said:
Productivity is around 25% higher in the US than in the UK…
isn't that to do with the minimal holidays the US want you to take, plus the expectation that you work long hours and weekends.Perhaps if we just focused on out put per core hours there wouldn't be much in it.
Could the discrepancy be partly to do with exchange rate and the higher average income in the US?
In the past, we hired lower-level and administrative staff globally for short term contracts. However, around five years ago, we noticed a significant decline in applications from the US.
Today, it appears that the salaries for administrative positions in the US now surpass what we offer even for higher level roles in the UK.
In the past, we hired lower-level and administrative staff globally for short term contracts. However, around five years ago, we noticed a significant decline in applications from the US.
Today, it appears that the salaries for administrative positions in the US now surpass what we offer even for higher level roles in the UK.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
isn't that to do with the minimal holidays the US want you to take, plus the expectation that you work long hours and weekends.
Perhaps if we just focused on out put per core hours there wouldn't be much in it.
Maybe, but as things stand it partly answers the OP’s question. US engineers are paid more but they have to earn their pound of flesh with longer hours, fewer holidays and a hire&fire culture…Perhaps if we just focused on out put per core hours there wouldn't be much in it.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
WelshRich said:
Productivity is around 25% higher in the US than in the UK…
isn't that to do with the minimal holidays the US want you to take, plus the expectation that you work long hours and weekends.Perhaps if we just focused on out put per core hours there wouldn't be much in it.
Type R Tom said:
It didn't take me long out of Uni with a Mec Eng to realise that the local engineering firms weren't going to pay me enough to live a decent life in the SE. Moved across to civil and local authority and now earn more than those OP jobs (as a manager).
They should be paid more (and officially recognised) but there are extra costs in the US, my BiL in Seattle pays more just to get his rubbish taken then I do in Council Tax.
Heh. I graduated with a civil engineering degree, but graduate starting salaries in the late 90’s were noticeably less (£12k vs. £16k) than I got by joining a graduate scheme in an unrelated area (software dev). I also wouldn’t have to stand in a field in the rain. They should be paid more (and officially recognised) but there are extra costs in the US, my BiL in Seattle pays more just to get his rubbish taken then I do in Council Tax.
We don’t / didn’t pay engineers enough in the UK considering the options that engineering grads have, if we want them to be engineers.
WelshRich said:
Maybe, but as things stand it partly answers the OP’s question. US engineers are paid more but they have to earn their pound of flesh with longer hours, fewer holidays and a hire&fire culture…
Indeed.UK - better holidays, lower hours, often shorter commutes...
US - high costs after take home pay (e.g. healthcare), most states have "fire at will" (poor will)
More security in the UK after 2 years.
Also "engineering" is such a broad church, it's like comparing "Why is IT paid so badly in the UK?" - it depends on the role...
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