Working in the EU & brexit issues

[EmilA]

Starting off with a request to keep this topic specific and not become a brexit chat please. As I want to understand the hurdles that I have been presented with.

During brexit I was working for an international body in Brussels near Zaventem. I worked there during and after the brexit dates and came to the natural end of my contract in 2021.
There were some roles that appeared earlier this year and one specifically was a perfect match for my skillset, was going through the motions of applying but then the agencies lawyer advised that there was no way that they could represent me to secure the role due to the complications/hurdles to make it happen. This is the same agency who I worked with during my original contract.

Another agency who deals with similar roles just advised its to difficult to place a UK citizen into a role there as a contractor. And its not about the organisation not wanting my services, as I know senior staff there and they still make one of requests for advise and guidance from me.

I am aware of having to register with the local commune and tax implications and no problem with adhering with them so just want to understand what the blocking factor/s are

[mikef]

Presumably they want you on site full time, not two-three days a week? (I did a contract in the past at a pan-European aviation organization near Zaventem, and that was full time onsite, pre-Covid)

I just finished a longish contract in France, driving out there two or three days a week to stay within the 180-day rule. Stayed in apart-hotels so no residency complications, I was contracted and paid in the UK

[Twin2]

Not sure if this will help but I'm facing a similar situation, I have projects now in France and Sweden and am 2 weeks away from breaking the 90/180 day rule.

As far as I can see, it's difficult to get a work visa for the EU if your direct employer isn't there as you need an offer from them - which is my situation as a consultant.

It may be worth checking if it would be 100% full time or you would be able to cover it with 3 days onsite, therefore adhering to the rules, but don't forget the impact this will have on yourself - my situation is basically that I won't be able to enter the EU for a 2 week holiday until ~July.

[EmilA]

mikef said:

Presumably they want you on site full time, not two-three days a week? (I did a contract in the past at a pan-European aviation organization near Zaventem, and that was full time onsite, pre-Covid)

I just finished a longish contract in France, driving out there two or three days a week to stay within the 180-day rule. Stayed in apart-hotels so no residency complications, I was contracted and paid in the UK

Pre-brexit was onsite 5 days a week, post brexit 2.5 days in office and then the rest from home. I was in the large glass building next door.

[EmilA]

Twin2 said:

Not sure if this will help but I'm facing a similar situation, I have projects now in France and Sweden and am 2 weeks away from breaking the 90/180 day rule.

As far as I can see, it's difficult to get a work visa for the EU if your direct employer isn't there as you need an offer from them - which is my situation as a consultant.

It may be worth checking if it would be 100% full time or you would be able to cover it with 3 days onsite, therefore adhering to the rules, but don't forget the impact this will have on yourself - my situation is basically that I won't be able to enter the EU for a 2 week holiday until ~July.

Didn't think that much of this complication, I might probe it some more. I know staff are allowed to work remotely, my earlier post said I did 2.5 days onsite then rest at home, during covid i was fully remote and home based.

[StevieBee]

Is the company a public body / organisation? (EU Commission, UN, etc..)

[sunbeam alpine]

The biggest challenge is that Belgium is not making it easy for non-EU nationals to come here to work.

The first hurdle is that the prospective employer has to prove that you (as candidate) have a skill set/experience that Belgian/other EU candidates do not possess. Unless you have a unique set of skills or are in a very small specialised sector, this could be a challenge.

Multinationals or large Belgian firms should still be able to sort it, smaller companies probably won't want the bother.

[EmilA]

StevieBee said:

Is the company a public body / organisation? (EU Commission, UN, etc..)

Correct yes, a multinational organisation. The contract roles advertised are fixed term roles and a handful of agencies that recruit within the security cleared space have these roles advertised.

I might just try speaking with the recruitment company again, see if they can share any more information than being told its not possible. Other UK nationals have fulfilled roles there recently so there must be a way to do it.

[mikef]

EmilA said:

Correct yes, a multinational organisation. The contract roles advertised are fixed term roles and a handful of agencies that recruit within the security cleared space have these roles advertised.

I might just try speaking with the recruitment company again, see if they can share any more information than being told its not possible. Other UK nationals have fulfilled roles there recently so there must be a way to do it.

So it's a fixed term contrat de travail à durée déterminée where you will be directly employed by the organization in the big glass building, and paid by them (?). You won't be a freelance paid through an agency or umbrella company. The agency make their income through the placement fee, have I got that right?

[StevieBee]

EmilA said:

StevieBee said:

Is the company a public body / organisation? (EU Commission, UN, etc..)

Correct yes, a multinational organisation. The contract roles advertised are fixed term roles and a handful of agencies that recruit within the security cleared space have these roles advertised.

I might just try speaking with the recruitment company again, see if they can share any more information than being told its not possible. Other UK nationals have fulfilled roles there recently so there must be a way to do it.

Alrighty then. This is my world. My experiences may not apply but they may shed some light.

Any EU based public institution that is funded from money that originates within the EU must prioritise work opportunities and contracts to individuals and organisations that are themselves domiciled within the EU. This doesn't mean non-EU individuals and organisations are excluded, just that priority is given to those in the EU. In other words, if they can't find someone there to do the work, then they look beyond the border. This cannot be easily circumvented and I suspect is the issue your lawyer may be referring to.

If you are a fully self-employed consultant and you know of others in the EU who do similar work, you could look to set up something called a European Cooperative Society (SCE). This is a structure for business that allows you to be appointed to do work for EU based organisations regardless of where you live. The SCE is appointed and bills that organisation and you in turn bill the SCE. I'm not certain this would be applicable to you - or possible. It's how we've maintained ongoing business relationships post-Brexit. Works fine but the downside is that the SCE pays corporation tax in the EU country it's in and you then pay tax to HMRC on what you bill.

This is what prompted us to do this; appended to a tender for an EU project a few weeks after the refurendum:



Again, this may not relate directly but may explain better the reasoning for your situation.

You mention multinational organisation so I'm guessing it's something like the World Bank, EBRD, UN.... Whilst their source of funding is not exclusively EU, where they operate within the EU, they tend to assume they are themselves an EU institution.

[EmilA]

Appreciate the replies and information thanks. Plenty to look into and keep me busy.

[Speed 3]

One thing to be careful of is the notion of 90 days "work" in 180 being acceptable. It's generally down to the country in question to define what constitutes work. I'm doing some stuff in Latvia at the mo and they only allow you to attend meetings, receive training and that sort of thing. They don't allow you to do something they deem to be work - including training others, managing, executing tasks (desk or labour job). We've had to be really careful with our engagement contracts and what we say at immigration. Some of the UK passport holders on the project have been forced to get work permits which has been a very protracted and painful exercise.

The more stamps you have in your passport the more they start to question you. I've been told that the reason they count days manually from your passport is that there isn't a pan-EU database of days in country even though its a biometric scan to validate.

It is quite tricky writing a contract that emphasises remote working (ie UK) with regular client visits for visa purposes whilst at the same time avoiding charging UK VAT by emphasising to HMRC that most of the work is "in country" and thereby zero rated. We have also had to get a home tax declaration from HMRC to avoid Withholding Tax of 25% on some Portuguese billing - that's not a Brexit issue though.

[LF5335]

Was just going to add that the 90/180 rule is effectively for tourism purposes and not work. As soon as you engage in any work activity then most EU countries will require a visa. You’ve said that Belgium are making it difficult, but the rules you’ve quoted match those I’ve experienced elsewhere in the EU and that a family member has experienced in Germany.

You need to consider your tax situation too, very easy to end up being taxed in both countries, or needing to stay out of one for a long time to avoid any issues.

[DeejRC]

The 90/180 day thing unfortunately is something we (those of us who worked as opposed to civvie tourists) never used to have to think about. We all simply ignored it. Now of course, thanks to the retired teacher brigade in France, everybody counts days.
As noted by other posters, Belgium is more of an arse than other EU countries, but frankly that should be a shock to precisely nobody. They were more of an arse before as well !
NL is still quite relaxed over such things, as is Portugal and Italy. The trouble with down south though is rates, but they make up for that with qual of life.
One thing I have found recently has been Switzerland has come back to the fore. There are quite a lot of roles being advertise back in CH at their usual chunky rates. CH fell out of favour for many after the peg thing started making life interesting, but in the last cpl of yrs are shouting loudly again.

[LF5335]

DeejRC said:

The 90/180 day thing unfortunately is something we (those of us who worked as opposed to civvie tourists) never used to have to think about. We all simply ignored it. Now of course, thanks to the retired teacher brigade in France, everybody counts days.
As noted by other posters, Belgium is more of an arse than other EU countries, but frankly that should be a shock to precisely nobody. They were more of an arse before as well !
NL is still quite relaxed over such things, as is Portugal and Italy. The trouble with down south though is rates, but they make up for that with qual of life.
One thing I have found recently has been Switzerland has come back to the fore. There are quite a lot of roles being advertise back in CH at their usual chunky rates. CH fell out of favour for many after the peg thing started making life interesting, but in the last cpl of yrs are shouting loudly again.

It never used to exist, so nothing to ignore in reality.