Working time directive
Discussion
Just had an email asking me (and every other employee) from. HR telling me to sign and return an opt out to the working time directive.
Why would I want to?
I'm contracted to do 37.5 hours a week. Am not paid overtime, don't officially have flexitime, but there's give and take between my manager and the need to deal with different shifts, so I can chose my hours within reason.
I'm wondering what happens if I refuse to sign it.
Why would I want to?
I'm contracted to do 37.5 hours a week. Am not paid overtime, don't officially have flexitime, but there's give and take between my manager and the need to deal with different shifts, so I can chose my hours within reason.
I'm wondering what happens if I refuse to sign it.
The answer is that you wouldn’t want to sign it.
If they are about to start trying to get people to work long hours then officially there’s no consequences of refusing to opt out. In practice an unscrupulous employer would find ways to retaliate, but is that the kind of company you’d want to work for?
If they are about to start trying to get people to work long hours then officially there’s no consequences of refusing to opt out. In practice an unscrupulous employer would find ways to retaliate, but is that the kind of company you’d want to work for?
I thought Boris, JRM and Gove promised us that all this horrible EU legislation designed to protect us mere employees would've been long since abolished by now, to universal delight?!?
By way of a more sensible answer, I'm pretty sure that only France ever actually made it mandatory in the first place. For everywhere else, my understanding is that signing a waiver doesn't mean your employer can force you to work beyond your contracted hours, but more that it means they're not open to legal action if you do work beyond the limits of the directive.
By way of a more sensible answer, I'm pretty sure that only France ever actually made it mandatory in the first place. For everywhere else, my understanding is that signing a waiver doesn't mean your employer can force you to work beyond your contracted hours, but more that it means they're not open to legal action if you do work beyond the limits of the directive.
Kermit power said:
I thought Boris, JRM and Gove promised us that all this horrible EU legislation designed to protect us mere employees would've been long since abolished by now, to universal delight?!?
By way of a more sensible answer, I'm pretty sure that only France ever actually made it mandatory in the first place. For everywhere else, my understanding is that signing a waiver doesn't mean your employer can force you to work beyond your contracted hours, but more that it means they're not open to legal action if you do work beyond the limits of the directive.
I think they are just trying to protect themselves. We've just been taken over by a big German company, so they probably have started to spot various failures. By way of a more sensible answer, I'm pretty sure that only France ever actually made it mandatory in the first place. For everywhere else, my understanding is that signing a waiver doesn't mean your employer can force you to work beyond your contracted hours, but more that it means they're not open to legal action if you do work beyond the limits of the directive.
I've recently been asked to prove I'm allowed to work in the UK. I've been here 18 months and brought my passport in daily for the first week expecting to be asked for them to see it.
Apparently everyone that joined since 2019 has been asked. Ties in with someone who left at the same time.
okgo said:
matrignano said:
Pretty standard practice in financial services, and I’m not aware of anyone refusing to sign it…
Had it every job I’ve ever had. Pretty sure the alternative was that we accept your resignation. (I'm not stupid. I know there are ways of making people leave)
Pit Pony said:
okgo said:
matrignano said:
Pretty standard practice in financial services, and I’m not aware of anyone refusing to sign it…
Had it every job I’ve ever had. Pretty sure the alternative was that we accept your resignation. (I'm not stupid. I know there are ways of making people leave)
If I tried to refuse to sign one in enterprise IT sales, then it would be massively career damaging - and arguably quite rightly so, given that pay is generally pretty good - but at the same time, I've never come across a company that would expect you to routinely work more than the 48 hours per week or whatever it is.
As I see it, it's more to cover those occasional "all hands to the pumps for as long as it takes" situations. I account managed a client through a critical product outage a few years ago where I was having to chair update calls every 2 hours from 6am to 10pm for the best part of 3 days. Of course my boss told me to take the rest of the week off once we'd restored the service, but can you imagine what would've happened if I'd got to Wednesday lunchtime and told the client we'd have to get back to them on Monday morning because we'd done our work for the week by then???
I've discussed the situation with French colleagues over the years, and they're actually jealous of our right to opt put! It's often really tightly enforced over there, to the point that in some cases, travel away from home counted as ALL working hours, and they were forced to take additional holiday to make up for overworked hours.
Whilst that might seem lovely at first glance, I've had friends (in commission based roles) comment that they feel like it's an unfair restriction on their ability to earn more, others who point out that "holiday" really doesn't feel all that much like holiday if you're just at home going through the daily routine (because who can actually afford to go away that often even if they don't have kids in school) and some who've been honest enough to say that they don't really want that much time with their other half!
okgo said:
I’m sure they’ve thought about it and it’s common enough that I doubt it is?
Also, who gives a s
t? Just get the job done no?
The regulation is there to stop abuse by the employer; i.e. working their staff to exhaustion. I have no doubt that if we could, many would be demanding their staff work 16+ hour days 7 days a week with no breaks. Also, who gives a s
t? Just get the job done no?If the employee wishes, they can opt out of the WTD and allow their employer to throw whatever working hours/arrangements at them.
parabolica said:
okgo said:
I’m sure they’ve thought about it and it’s common enough that I doubt it is?
Also, who gives a st? Just get the job done no?
The regulation is there to stop abuse by the employer; i.e. working their staff to exhaustion. I have no doubt that if we could, many would be demanding their staff work 16+ hour days 7 days a week with no breaks. Also, who gives a s
t? Just get the job done no?If the employee wishes, they can opt out of the WTD and allow their employer to throw whatever working hours/arrangements at them.
Mr Penguin said:
Jasandjules said:
However it will also say (or should) that you have the right to opt in again.....
It says something along those lines but there is a three month notice period for it. You'd also be pushed out for some other reason if you did so nobody does. Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff