Other half having huge work problems – Advice Needed

[superhans88]

So the girlfriend is an Architect with at least 5 years’ experience fully qualified (and it takes a long time to get to that point!). She started a new job closer to home last summer after her previous firm refused to accommodate any form of work from home and the commute was becoming intolerable. Unfortunately, it’s all going wrong…

This new firm seems to be like some dystopian hippie’s wet dream where nobody is responsible or accountable for anything and it’s just an effing free-for-all. The director ends up micro-managing everyone and interfering everywhere without ever having the full oversight that a dedicated project lead would have.

It’s been causing her significant distress, with projects frequently degenerating into disorganised shouting matches with the boss interfering at every stage and making ridiculous requests. She’s tried to assert her leadership skills by allocating and organising work within the project but has always been put back in her box by the boss, who assigns multiple architects to the same job where one should be owning it and leading it. She has significant experience in this regard which is essentially being ignored and going unrecognised.

After being passed up for promotion in favour of a couple of others of lesser experience but who had simply been there longer, she finally had it out with her boss (who seems to run the place like his personal fiefdom).

He essentially tried to gaslight her into thinking she wasn’t a team player (which is rubbish) and asserted that ‘nobody works with autonomy here, we all work together’, which roughly translates to ‘nobody has responsibility or accountability here, we all do each other’s jobs’.

I’m curious to know if anyone has had a similar problem and if so, how such arguments were countered. I’m a mechanical engineer and my responsibilities have (mostly) always been well defined with clear lines of reporting and no micro-managing from above. It seems this might be a problem more common in so called ‘creative’ industries? (inverted commas as I believe engineering can claim to be the most ‘creative’ industry of them all..).

It’s gone well past the stage of being a mental health issue to happy to discuss further with anyone who’s had similar experience.

[Pflanzgarten]

There's really no other option other than to find a new job.

Had it with my wife when an utter tool was promoted to head teacher where she had worked for thirteen years. Lots of completely illegal practices with evidence but do you want the stress of a tribunal? I did, she didn't. We're talking so bad I had to refrain from going down to sort it out myself, mainly because as a professional in education it likely would have ended up ruining her career (if not/as well as me ending up in court).

I haven't forgotten, it's a small town and I absolutely will get that motherfker back one day. Our kids go to some of the same after school activities

In the end it was so bad she applied for a step down at a better school, didn't get the job but interviewed so well they created a position for her and matched her pay.

Now, she's much happier which can only be a positive for family life.

There's always two sides to every story of course but when you end up working for someone so toxic you just need to move on. You really aren't going to change them.

Her previous head actually was promoted to run two schools in the same group, both have been OFSTED'd since my wife left and been downgraded to requires improvement. The still has functioning kneecaps however so still work to do

[randlemarcus]

Sounds like a textbook answer to the interview question "why do you want to leave?"

Not sure there's a right way to counter his fundamental personality when he wants to be airy fairy, and she wants structure. Could she ask him to try an experiment on one project, where things run her way?

[ClaphamGT3]

I'm inclined to say that's architecture for you - I have seen this sort if behaviour in that profession so often, I'd say it's normal.

It really is a toxic profession. A few years ago I was approached about taking the role of CEO of one of the largest and best known practices of architects and master planners in the world. It was a chunky, well into seven figures package that would have more than doubled my current earnings. I couldn't say no fast enough.

[rog007]

I’d agree with other posters; time for a change.

But reflecting back and if you agree prevention is better than cure, what could she have done more of before accepting the role to better understand the culture of the place, effectively carrying out her due diligence?

I see this scenario far too much sadly, and it seems mainly due to a reluctance or realisation that you should indeed carry out sufficient due diligence on a role and the organisation before you accept a role. Meet the hiring manager before interview if shortlisted to find out if you could work with them. Spend some time in and around the organisation to get a sense of what’s going on. Chat to existing employees and look at annual reports and anything that may be available online.

Folk spend far too much time at work to get this wrong; the only outcome is unhappiness and the stress of a forced move.

[superhans88]

Pflanzgarten said:

Lots of completely illegal practices with evidence but do you want the stress of a tribunal? I did, she didn't. We're talking so bad I had to refrain from going down to sort it out myself, mainly because as a professional in education it likely would have ended up ruining her career (if not/as well as me ending up in court).

I know the feeling. She's suffered serious harassment by a previous boss but didn't pursue him at the time due to the stress/risk to reputation etc. (I would still love to relieve him of his kneecaps though).

I think it's part of the reason she's reluctant to move on again and determined to make this one work, she's worked in a few practices now run by knobheads of varying degrees.

[superhans88]

ClaphamGT3 said:

I'm inclined to say that's architecture for you - I have seen this sort if behaviour in that profession so often, I'd say it's normal.

It's quite depressing isn't it. The fact she's worked so hard to get through all the endless years of training makes it all the more heart breaking that she continues to be underpaid, underappreciated and generally taking it up the 'arris. Would be interested to hear more of your experience and why you think that's the case.

The sad thing is she would have made a decent engineer. She can do the creative bit but is well grounded and pragmatic/practical in her approach in a way that I just don't see in her friends/colleagues that I've met. They are all much more airy-fairy, arty-farty!

[Pflanzgarten]

superhans88 said:

Pflanzgarten said:

Lots of completely illegal practices with evidence but do you want the stress of a tribunal? I did, she didn't. We're talking so bad I had to refrain from going down to sort it out myself, mainly because as a professional in education it likely would have ended up ruining her career (if not/as well as me ending up in court).

I know the feeling. She's suffered serious harassment by a previous boss but didn't pursue him at the time due to the stress/risk to reputation etc. (I would still love to relieve him of his kneecaps though).

I think it's part of the reason she's reluctant to move on again and determined to make this one work, she's worked in a few practices now run by knobheads of varying degrees.

It’s a shame, my architects are a great bunch (nothing like what GT3 talks about) with a healthy mix of youth and old hands.

Our old architects in Dumfries are still going although under a new head as sadly the guy we used was tragically killed in an RTA.

Back to the case in point, it’s a noble gesture her wanting to work it out but having employed people for years, folk don’t change.

Plus the percentage of people who are toxic at work is scarily high and in my opinion only getting worse.

If there is no one local decent enough there’s always the option of going self employed.

[NDA]

It sounds like a poor culture and that her boss has now fixed his opinion of her as not being a team player. I doubt that view will change.

In my industry (media), good people are very hard to find, I am not sure about the architecture world.

I'd advise her to have her CV updated and cast her eye over other opportunities. Not all companies are rubbish and she'd clearly be much happier elsewhere.

[abzmike]

Sounds like she isn’t going to be able to change the culture, so if she can’t stand it the it’s time to find somewhere more amenable to the way she likes to work. Take a little time and find a role, maybe in a larger organisation with more structure and not all beholden to one guy. I wouldn’t worry about the brief period there - the architectural jungle drums probably know how bad it is there.

[ClaphamGT3]

superhans88 said:

It's quite depressing isn't it. The fact she's worked so hard to get through all the endless years of training makes it all the more heart breaking that she continues to be underpaid, underappreciated and generally taking it up the 'arris. Would be interested to hear more of your experience and why you think that's the case.

The sad thing is she would have made a decent engineer. She can do the creative bit but is well grounded and pragmatic/practical in her approach in a way that I just don't see in her friends/colleagues that I've met. They are all much more airy-fairy, arty-farty!

Engineering is an equally - if not more - dismal profession with the added downside of imminent disruption by AI and machine learning.

amongst many challenges that the architectural profession faces, one of the key ones is that it is very aspirational. As such there are always more good trainee/NQ architects than good roles in good firms and employers often take advantage. I know of one principal of a well known architectural practice who 'boasts' that they make their profit on the free overtime that their staff are expected to routinely provide.

Add to that the way in which the focus on creativity conflicts with operational efficiency and effectiveness and promotes egotism in leaders and you get a really challenging environment.

[ooid]

ClaphamGT3 said:

I'm inclined to say that's architecture for you - I have seen this sort if behaviour in that profession so often, I'd say it's normal.

Sadly, I have to agree on this. In my previous life, I've trained in architecture and worked for quite a long time in different practices. Luckily, I have worked at one of the best firms, which I was able to compare, most of them were quite rubbish. It's quite a difficult/toxic environment mostly, and I think it would take ages to improve, as GT3 points out there are so many young grads there, so supply is never an issue so less room for improvement.

I know loads of architects do re-train and move to other fields, as it has potentially loads of transferable skills. Your partner can still be in the built environment, but work on the client side. (or research). There is also a massive need for ESG trained people with architecture or construction background almost all other venues, so it's not too late and I have to say, it would be hard to find a good practice/environment to work in her field. (They are quite rare and competitive to get in!).

Good luck

[sociopath]

Time to leave. She'll never beat the boss.

Even if she did, she'd be marked for the future as a trouble maker.

[Equus]

Devil's advocate, but there are always two sides to every story and:

superhans88 said:

She started a new job closer to home last summer

If she's only been there a few months, prudence would have been to stand back and watch for a while, before blazing in and trying to reorganise everything to her way of working. Softly, softly, catchee monkey.

superhans88 said:

He essentially tried to gaslight her into thinking she wasn’t a team player...

See above.

superhans88 said:

After being passed up for promotion in favour of a couple of others of lesser experience but who had simply been there longer

See above.

In a field as complex as architecture, I'd expect someone to take a few months to find their feet and get a grip on the practice's workload and way of doing things, much less have established themselves as ripe for promotion.

superhans88 said:

she finally had it out with her boss (who seems to run the place like his personal fiefdom).

If it's his practice then, bluntly: it is.

It's his way, or the highway: she has no right to tell him how to run his own business.

Perhaps she needs to branch out on her own, if she thinks she's so good at practice management?

Edited by Equus on Monday 13th February 10:35

[sutoka]

Having worked with a number of architects and managers of architect firms over the years in my field. My opinion of some is that Kevin McCloud does more architectural oversight on Grand Designs than some of the folk I've encountered.

My advice is that they've decided her face doesn't anymore and it's best to move on, plenty of practices and life is too short to be a target for someone else's frustration. If she's fully qualified then there is no reason why she couldn't be doing small jobs on her own.

[prand]

randlemarcus said:

Sounds like a textbook answer to the interview question "why do you want to leave?"

Not sure there's a right way to counter his fundamental personality when he wants to be airy fairy, and she wants structure. Could she ask him to try an experiment on one project, where things run her way?

No way I would say what OP said as an interview answer. Keep it brief and positive.

Time to go though. I would imagine due to barriers to entry, good architects are in short supply, and there will be too many jobs out there to put up with that sort of ceap.

[ooid]

Equus said:

If it's his practice then, bluntly: it is.

It's his way, or the highway: she has no right to tell him how to run his own business.

Edited by Equus on Monday 13th February 10:35

I would say yup you are right but remember this is not a lemonade stand or any other amateur start-up. He is running an architectural practice, it's a royal chartered profession and beyond "usual ethics" there is a professional code of conduct. Architects (at least in U.K. and Europe) invest a serious amount of their time/resources on their education and training, and make loads of personal sacrifices during that process. Their job is definitely not easy so demanding a decent work environment, the least they can ask for imho.

[Equus]

We're not talking about a decent work environment, though, are we?

We're talking about a management style that suits her way of thinking. That's a quite different thing: she has no right to demand that the practice is managed in a way that she thinks is appropriate, unless she is at least a partner/director level and/or has a financial stake in it.

Try asking on the business forum how many of PistonHeads PBD's are in the habit of having their employees dictate to them the way they manage their businesses?

FWIIW:

the OP said:

the girlfriend is an Architect with at least 5 years’ experience

From my perspective, that makes her a beginner (certainly at project management).

Freshly qualified Architects, these days, are just about fit to make the tea (the fault of the education system rather than the Architects themselves), so would I be giving a free hand to how my business is managed to someone whose level of experience you'd only just expect to put her at Project Management level, after she'd only been with the practice a few months?

Edited by Equus on Thursday 16th February 08:29