BBC - Job hunting for over 50s
Discussion
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64441775
Thoughts on this? As a person who is over 50 (although self employed) I do agree.
Thoughts on this? As a person who is over 50 (although self employed) I do agree.
I've never understood this or, to be honest, ever seen much evidence of it although it is clearly an issue.
I have at times needed to hire teams of people and whenever someone's CV landed that revealed an age of 50 and above, I almost always knew they'd get the job because I knew they'd be better at it and far less aggravation.
I have at times needed to hire teams of people and whenever someone's CV landed that revealed an age of 50 and above, I almost always knew they'd get the job because I knew they'd be better at it and far less aggravation.
52 here with recent exposure to "the job market". I think to a degree you need to be applying for the right jobs. Applying for things below you level is (I assume) just as unlikely to result in an interview as applying for those out of your range. My experience is don't apply for things you could do in your sleep and get a decent, what I would call modern CV.
Its very easy to become disheartended. My experience (I hope!) is look for the right employer then the job.
Its very easy to become disheartended. My experience (I hope!) is look for the right employer then the job.
I'm now 60+ however I found myself on the job market in my mid 50's and it was a struggle.
I was working in IT at the time (server monkey and networking) and nearly every interview I attended was hosted by someone half my age.
One interview in particular stood out, as I was friendly with someone who worked elsewhere within the same company, and it got back to me that the person who would have been my manager said that he didn't want his dad working for him.
I did finally secure a role - and was interviewed by a chap who was 25 years younger than me. After some months in the role, we built up quite a rapport, and he admitted to me that he didn't think someone of my age was capable of doing such a good job (this was not said in jest!).
I should point out that I wasn't interested in progressing into management roles, as I preferred being hands on and working with servers and networks directly - probably fairly unusual or someone of my age I expect.
Back in the mid 2000's I had a subscription to Computer Weekly, and remember reading endless letters from 50+ people in IT who felt they had been left on the shelf. I never thought this would happen to me, but it did.
Ageism is alive and well sadly - and whilst I admire the govt. initiative to get 50+ people back into jobs, I fear there is a mountain of age discrimination to climb before this will happen.
I was working in IT at the time (server monkey and networking) and nearly every interview I attended was hosted by someone half my age.
One interview in particular stood out, as I was friendly with someone who worked elsewhere within the same company, and it got back to me that the person who would have been my manager said that he didn't want his dad working for him.
I did finally secure a role - and was interviewed by a chap who was 25 years younger than me. After some months in the role, we built up quite a rapport, and he admitted to me that he didn't think someone of my age was capable of doing such a good job (this was not said in jest!).
I should point out that I wasn't interested in progressing into management roles, as I preferred being hands on and working with servers and networks directly - probably fairly unusual or someone of my age I expect.
Back in the mid 2000's I had a subscription to Computer Weekly, and remember reading endless letters from 50+ people in IT who felt they had been left on the shelf. I never thought this would happen to me, but it did.
Ageism is alive and well sadly - and whilst I admire the govt. initiative to get 50+ people back into jobs, I fear there is a mountain of age discrimination to climb before this will happen.
2 things I think are at play here. Firstly older people tend to have more behind them in terms both experience and savings and therefore are able to be more picky, and less likely to accept early/late starts, working away lots of the time, and the other things younger, more 'hungry' people probably will. A generalisation, of course, but still one of the things that might make employers less keen.
Secondly, the hiring manager, who usually is running the recruitment and will have the new person to manage, subconsciously wants people younger/less experienced than themselves so that boss dynamic works better. As you get past 50, the likelyhood of having a younger manager increases, and I think that subconscious bias does exist.
Obviously as above some people just want someone who can do the job with minimal fuss, but humans being humans the main thought of the hiring manager is often 'will hiring this person make my life easier or harder' and sometimes hiring a more experienced person to work under you could make your job harder or threaten your position.
Secondly, the hiring manager, who usually is running the recruitment and will have the new person to manage, subconsciously wants people younger/less experienced than themselves so that boss dynamic works better. As you get past 50, the likelyhood of having a younger manager increases, and I think that subconscious bias does exist.
Obviously as above some people just want someone who can do the job with minimal fuss, but humans being humans the main thought of the hiring manager is often 'will hiring this person make my life easier or harder' and sometimes hiring a more experienced person to work under you could make your job harder or threaten your position.
I’ve had a. Ouple of interviews in the last six months - I’m in IT in a technical analyst/programmer type role. I’ve 34 years solid experience, two related degrees and my employers have all been proper “big hitter” types and software houses. I’m 55 but don’t look that old.
In one of these interviews (they approached me - I’m not actually looking for a new role) I had a couple of young types - think beards, tunnel piercings - looked like baristas. Told me a bit about themselves - ten years and seven years experience respectively. Really lightweight I thought - and half my experience between them. My “knowledge was weak” evidently. I’d already figured this was not the sort of organisation I’d be interested in, so after that I’m not sure that they were too impressed when they asked “why did you apply for this job?” and I replied “I didn’t - you came to me”.
It does worry me that in future I might have to get past people like this, I think they perhaps see your experience as a threat? Or think you’ll just stay a few years and retire? Although I can’t see how that is worse than employing a recent graduate who’s going to get a years experience and move on.
In one of these interviews (they approached me - I’m not actually looking for a new role) I had a couple of young types - think beards, tunnel piercings - looked like baristas. Told me a bit about themselves - ten years and seven years experience respectively. Really lightweight I thought - and half my experience between them. My “knowledge was weak” evidently. I’d already figured this was not the sort of organisation I’d be interested in, so after that I’m not sure that they were too impressed when they asked “why did you apply for this job?” and I replied “I didn’t - you came to me”.
It does worry me that in future I might have to get past people like this, I think they perhaps see your experience as a threat? Or think you’ll just stay a few years and retire? Although I can’t see how that is worse than employing a recent graduate who’s going to get a years experience and move on.
Dog Star said:
I’ve had a. Ouple of interviews in the last six months - I’m in IT in a technical analyst/programmer type role. I’ve 34 years solid experience, two related degrees and my employers have all been proper “big hitter” types and software houses. I’m 55 but don’t look that old.
In one of these interviews (they approached me - I’m not actually looking for a new role) I had a couple of young types - think beards, tunnel piercings - looked like baristas. Told me a bit about themselves - ten years and seven years experience respectively. Really lightweight I thought - and half my experience between them. My “knowledge was weak” evidently. I’d already figured this was not the sort of organisation I’d be interested in
I am 49, work in IT, computer science degree and this is a concern of mine. I already work with people nearly half my age, I cannot imagine being interviewed by one. In one of these interviews (they approached me - I’m not actually looking for a new role) I had a couple of young types - think beards, tunnel piercings - looked like baristas. Told me a bit about themselves - ten years and seven years experience respectively. Really lightweight I thought - and half my experience between them. My “knowledge was weak” evidently. I’d already figured this was not the sort of organisation I’d be interested in
I also hate the way work culture is going and I can only see it getting worse, having to play the game and being expected to give a pound of flesh. Do I literally keep my head down and my mouth shut until I get myself into a financial situation where I no longer have to care anymore?
I truly believe that retirement for a lot of people isn't planned. One ordinary Tuesday afternoon they get called into see their boss and that is it, they are no longer required. It's all very well the retirement age being 67 (and 68 soon) but what am I supposed to do if I get made redundant at 61 and cannot get another job? Personally I don't really fancy having to work in Tesco in my 60s.
When you are young you don't think about this sort of thing, but over the last five years or so I have really started to worry what my end game is. I am currently trying to invest as much money as I can and am increasing my salary sacrifice contributions each year as I can see what is coming.
It is a major worry, I don't know how people in rented accommodation sleep at night as they will need to always be paying rent.
I too having been thinking about this. I'm currently 50 and have just gone through the whole recruitment process (new job starting soon). My experience will deliver results no matter what the current flavour of the month design pattern is in use or methodology is being employed. So I'm not too keen on companies or interviewers who get too hung up on these things.
The current tech skills can change frequently but the soft skills remain consistent. They just get renamed or rebranded.
I too am wondering how to set about early retirement and will probably end up closing my career by collecting trollies in a supermarket car park.
The current tech skills can change frequently but the soft skills remain consistent. They just get renamed or rebranded.
I too am wondering how to set about early retirement and will probably end up closing my career by collecting trollies in a supermarket car park.
StevieBee said:
I've never understood this or, to be honest, ever seen much evidence of it although it is clearly an issue.
I have at times needed to hire teams of people and whenever someone's CV landed that revealed an age of 50 and above, I almost always knew they'd get the job because I knew they'd be better at it and far less aggravation.
I've found the opposite tbh, maybe it's an age thing but a lot of the older people I've hired haven't worked out because of attitude. Some older men seem to have real trouble taking instruction or crit from someone younger.I have at times needed to hire teams of people and whenever someone's CV landed that revealed an age of 50 and above, I almost always knew they'd get the job because I knew they'd be better at it and far less aggravation.
Not had the same issue with older women, most settle into the team and get to work no bother.
Joey Deacon said:
I am 49, work in IT, computer science degree and this is a concern of mine. I already work with people nearly half my age, I cannot imagine being interviewed by one.
I also hate the way work culture is going and I can only see it getting worse, having to play the game and being expected to give a pound of flesh. Do I literally keep my head down and my mouth shut until I get myself into a financial situation where I no longer have to care anymore?
I truly believe that retirement for a lot of people isn't planned. One ordinary Tuesday afternoon they get called into see their boss and that is it, they are no longer required. It's all very well the retirement age being 67 (and 68 soon) but what am I supposed to do if I get made redundant at 61 and cannot get another job? Personally I don't really fancy having to work in Tesco in my 60s.
When you are young you don't think about this sort of thing, but over the last five years or so I have really started to worry what my end game is. I am currently trying to invest as much money as I can and am increasing my salary sacrifice contributions each year as I can see what is coming.
It is a major worry, I don't know how people in rented accommodation sleep at night as they will need to always be paying rent.
I have similar thoughts myself re end game and wonder what happens to the older people in my work environment as I age. I am 40 this year and most of the people in current organisation (120 people) are younger than me. I know this becuase I see the data and it's not just a case of they "look" young.I also hate the way work culture is going and I can only see it getting worse, having to play the game and being expected to give a pound of flesh. Do I literally keep my head down and my mouth shut until I get myself into a financial situation where I no longer have to care anymore?
I truly believe that retirement for a lot of people isn't planned. One ordinary Tuesday afternoon they get called into see their boss and that is it, they are no longer required. It's all very well the retirement age being 67 (and 68 soon) but what am I supposed to do if I get made redundant at 61 and cannot get another job? Personally I don't really fancy having to work in Tesco in my 60s.
When you are young you don't think about this sort of thing, but over the last five years or so I have really started to worry what my end game is. I am currently trying to invest as much money as I can and am increasing my salary sacrifice contributions each year as I can see what is coming.
It is a major worry, I don't know how people in rented accommodation sleep at night as they will need to always be paying rent.
For my own team I have recruited older people and find they are absolutely fine and fit in well with the type of team I like to manage - self starter, self regulating non micro manage.
I don't play the game and just work, deliver and meaningfully help out whoever I can. I note a lot of the younger generation spend a lot of time talking about what they are doing and the wider "issues" than actually delivering.
I can't see myself working in an office (I am remote at the moment) at 50 years old in my current sector at least, unless I am a member of the exec team (next rung up for me) though I have no interest in that currently. Maybe I go contracting at 50 plus and aim to retire at 60. There is just 1 person over 60 in my place.
ZedLeg said:
I've found the opposite tbh, maybe it's an age thing but a lot of the older people I've hired haven't worked out because of attitude. Some older men seem to have real trouble taking instruction or crit from someone younger.
Not had the same issue with older women, most settle into the team and get to work no bother.
Your post is already sexist, replace your use of ‘older’ with ‘black’ and you’d be rightly cancelled. Not had the same issue with older women, most settle into the team and get to work no bother.
bennno said:
ZedLeg said:
I've found the opposite tbh, maybe it's an age thing but a lot of the older people I've hired haven't worked out because of attitude. Some older men seem to have real trouble taking instruction or crit from someone younger.
Not had the same issue with older women, most settle into the team and get to work no bother.
Your post is already sexist, replace your use of ‘older’ with ‘black’ and you’d be rightly cancelled. Not had the same issue with older women, most settle into the team and get to work no bother.
I never said that I screen applications based on age or sex and I never would. I'd still hire an older guy if he was good, it's just that I've had more older guys not work out than any other demo.
It’s tough, they want people back in work, but the government have mandated the hiring of (low paid) apprentices and many businesses are being openly criticised for being male, pale and stale.
Positive discrimination is encouraging a broad employment bias towards females, people of colour and lgbtq+.
Joey Deacon said:
It's all very well the retirement age being 67 (and 68 soon)
Stiil 66 at the moment - I'm 66 in April.Amazed I've managed to hang on - work in 'high tech' but I live a bit out of the way and think I'd have been in trouble as I got older, many people I used to work with got re-org'd out in their 50's and never worked again. However those in the SE seem to get new jobs, and I see them on LinkedIn flitting from job to job in their 60's.
I suppose a lot of employers are reluctant to hire older people in a job that needs some training or even familiarisation as they may well have one eye on retirement and won't be around for long. There's also not much scope to develop them.
It's a tough one. I'll be 50 next year and it is an interesting topic to me. I work in IT and I know of a few older guys who have been employed to do fairly low level IT work (basic helpdesk, laptop builds, etc.) They don't cost a lot, there's not much scope to grow but these guys are great with people, are calmer and more mature and are happy to do the daily stuff that needs doing as it's a wage to them while they work towards retirement rather than a career path. You need doers like that in your team.
The higher up the scale is where it gets tricky. There are people half my age who would cost half my salary and bonus to do what I do. They'd probably be more motivated and harder working as they strive to make an impression in their careers. They'd probably be more up to date with their technologies too. Hell, I'd not employ me at what I charge salary wise.
The higher up the scale is where it gets tricky. There are people half my age who would cost half my salary and bonus to do what I do. They'd probably be more motivated and harder working as they strive to make an impression in their careers. They'd probably be more up to date with their technologies too. Hell, I'd not employ me at what I charge salary wise.
ZedLeg said:
Joey Deacon said:
I don't know how people in rented accommodation sleep at night as they will need to always be paying rent.
I have no expectation that I'll ever full retire, I'm not alone among millennials in that thought.It's all very well saying you are going to work until you die, but the reality is that will not be possible.
The majority of people I work with seem to spend every penny they earn and are always moaning about being skint. The last of our company cars are going in a couple of months and some of these people have never bought a car before. They don't have any money to buy a car (and I doubt they could imagine driving a second hand car) so they are all going to lease one.
I on the other hand drive a shed, have another investment property, overpay into my pension and am worried about how I am going to retire.
Other than hoping for a large inheritance I would love to know what their long term plan is.
Joey Deacon said:
ZedLeg said:
Joey Deacon said:
I don't know how people in rented accommodation sleep at night as they will need to always be paying rent.
I have no expectation that I'll ever full retire, I'm not alone among millennials in that thought.It's all very well saying you are going to work until you die, but the reality is that will not be possible.
I've already decided that if I get to the point that it's impossible for me to be self sufficient I'll check out.
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