Does a verbal acceptance of a job offer become binding
Discussion
My department of the company I work for is being closed down, so I will be made redundant. I haven't had formal notice yet, but I will get this w/c 16th Jan.
I have verbally accepted another role within the same company a few days ago (same pay and conditions), but they haven't put this in writing so I haven't formally accepted it. Nothing untoward with the delay, it's due to the hiring manager being on annual leave.
A competitor has contacted me about a role, and I have an interview early next week - this came out of the blue! This role will likely pay around 30% more than the role I have verbally accepted. Of course I may not get the role, but they have offered me roles on previously, so I am reasonably confident.
Does my verbal acceptance of the role with my current company mean I now can't 'back out', leave the company and take a redundancy payment?
n.b. redundancy is worth having as it's around a years salary after tax.
I have verbally accepted another role within the same company a few days ago (same pay and conditions), but they haven't put this in writing so I haven't formally accepted it. Nothing untoward with the delay, it's due to the hiring manager being on annual leave.
A competitor has contacted me about a role, and I have an interview early next week - this came out of the blue! This role will likely pay around 30% more than the role I have verbally accepted. Of course I may not get the role, but they have offered me roles on previously, so I am reasonably confident.
Does my verbal acceptance of the role with my current company mean I now can't 'back out', leave the company and take a redundancy payment?
n.b. redundancy is worth having as it's around a years salary after tax.
Are you expecting a new contract for your new role within the same company? This sounds like an internal transfer type arrangement to me. Either way no a verbal agreement is not binding. Even a written signed contract is not binding. I've heard stories where people have accepted a job offer, signed all the paperwork and then change their minds at the last minute and bailed. Not something I would do but it does happen. If you land yourself this other job I think you'll be ok.
Presumably it will become clear with the wording of the letter you get on the 16th.
Think I would wait and see if it mentions the other role you've been offered and go from there.
It being an HR thing in my experience they will almost certainly cock it up and you should be in gravy.
Just keep schtum until you get the letter.
Think I would wait and see if it mentions the other role you've been offered and go from there.
It being an HR thing in my experience they will almost certainly cock it up and you should be in gravy.
Just keep schtum until you get the letter.
Aunty Pasty said:
Are you expecting a new contract for your new role within the same company? This sounds like an internal transfer type arrangement to me. Either way no a verbal agreement is not binding. Even a written signed contract is not binding. I've heard stories where people have accepted a job offer, signed all the paperwork and then change their minds at the last minute and bailed. Not something I would do but it does happen. If you land yourself this other job I think you'll be ok.
I recall a former colleague telling me about a friend of his wife, who had handed in her notice and was looking forward to starting her new job. I don't know what was or wasn't signed with the new employer but they withdrew the offer and the current employer refused to rescind her notice. So she was left right in the shight. The wife of my best mate at university was a teacher. In teaching, when you were interviewing for a job you would be asked at the end of the interview if you were still a firm candidate. If you said yes and you were selected, that was taken as a firm, albeit verbal, acceptance of the job. My friend’s wife went for an interview and ended up being offered the job. On her way home, she started to have second thoughts. When she got home and discussed it with her husband, she decided to phone the Headteacher and tell him she had changed her mind. He was not happy. Although he reluctantly accepted her decision he did tell her that he would be contacting his LEA and she would subsequently be black listed from applying for any other teaching jobs in that county.
Another colleague of mine applied for and got a job at another school. A few days later, he went for another interview and got that job as well. As his line manager, I was surprised and suggested that he contact the first school and let them know that he no longer wanted the job. He assured me that he had done this. On the first day of the next term, I got an irate phone call from the Head of the first school, asking where he was. When I told him, what had happened, to say he was angry was an understatement. After discussing it with my line manager, I was advised to give the Head of the first school the contact details of the second school and let them fight it out!
To summarise, although a verbal contract isn’t worth the paper it’s written on, in some instances employers still believe that someone’s word is their bond.
Another colleague of mine applied for and got a job at another school. A few days later, he went for another interview and got that job as well. As his line manager, I was surprised and suggested that he contact the first school and let them know that he no longer wanted the job. He assured me that he had done this. On the first day of the next term, I got an irate phone call from the Head of the first school, asking where he was. When I told him, what had happened, to say he was angry was an understatement. After discussing it with my line manager, I was advised to give the Head of the first school the contact details of the second school and let them fight it out!
To summarise, although a verbal contract isn’t worth the paper it’s written on, in some instances employers still believe that someone’s word is their bond.
Aunty Pasty said:
Are you expecting a new contract for your new role within the same company? This sounds like an internal transfer type arrangement to me. Either way no a verbal agreement is not binding. Even a written signed contract is not binding. I've heard stories where people have accepted a job offer, signed all the paperwork and then change their minds at the last minute and bailed. Not something I would do but it does happen. If you land yourself this other job I think you'll be ok.
Great point, I don't think there will be a new contract to sign and continuity of emp[loyment will remain. I'll wait and see what the agreement says when I get it, and also take a look at the redunancy letter when it comes next week.Aunty Pasty said:
Either way no a verbal agreement is not binding. Even a written signed contract is not binding. I've heard stories where people have accepted a job offer, signed all the paperwork and then change their minds at the last minute and bailed. .
Yes it is. Both are. If the conditions to create a contract exist, a contract exists. The terms of any such contract, and proving it, are the challenge if push comes to shove. What you are confusing is binding and being enforced. It is binding, but the chances of being enforced are low. The likely compensation to the employer would be minimal (notice period say) therefore it is not worth the fees to pursue. You are not a slave thus generally can't be forced to work for a particular employer (there are some exceptions to this)..
Mr.Chips said:
On her way home, she started to have second thoughts. When she got home and discussed it with her husband, she decided to phone the Headteacher and tell him she had changed her mind. He was not happy. Although he reluctantly accepted her decision he did tell her that he would be contacting his LEA and she would subsequently be black listed from applying for any other teaching jobs in that county..
That can't be legal?boxst said:
Mr.Chips said:
On her way home, she started to have second thoughts. When she got home and discussed it with her husband, she decided to phone the Headteacher and tell him she had changed her mind. He was not happy. Although he reluctantly accepted her decision he did tell her that he would be contacting his LEA and she would subsequently be black listed from applying for any other teaching jobs in that county..
That can't be legal?I taught in a school which, shall we say, didn’t meet my expectations. Despite trying to improve things, I ultimately decided that, after 12 months, I was going to quit without another job to go to, knowing that I would be able to pick up plenty of supply work. On my last day, the Headteacher told me that, as I wouldn’t work for her, she would actively stop me from working for anyone else. After three unsuccessful job applications, a former colleague told me that he wouldn’t employ anyone with the reference she was giving me. Consequently, I contacted my previous Head of department and asked him to tell the Headteacher that I would continue applying for jobs and asking for a reference, but one of the applications would be a fake, from a school where the Headteacher was a friend of mine and he would let me see the reference. I made it clear that if there was anything in the reference that was either untrue or didn’t reflect the work I had done, I would inform her LEA, the school governors and take legal action against her. I got the next job I applied for, the reference being supplied by one of her deputy heads.
Jasandjules said:
Aunty Pasty said:
Either way no a verbal agreement is not binding. Even a written signed contract is not binding. I've heard stories where people have accepted a job offer, signed all the paperwork and then change their minds at the last minute and bailed. .
Yes it is. Both are. If the conditions to create a contract exist, a contract exists. The terms of any such contract, and proving it, are the challenge if push comes to shove. What you are confusing is binding and being enforced. It is binding, but the chances of being enforced are low. The likely compensation to the employer would be minimal (notice period say) therefore it is not worth the fees to pursue. You are not a slave thus generally can't be forced to work for a particular employer (there are some exceptions to this)..
Does he’s verbal acceptance mean that, if he does chose to leave, he will be resigning from the new role rather than being made redundant from the old one?
To the OP,
I’m not sure on this but as far as I understood it, if you are at risk of redundancy and wanting to take it, you really don’t want to have accepted another role with the company that is trying to make you redundant, Or you’re not being made redundant. You just changed roles.
So whatever they say Id hold firm that I’ve not accepted a new role with them. IIRC You could say something like, “I accept redundancy, but would look positively at rejoining this company if new roles are created after the redundancy round”
Or something like that. But if you want redundancy really be careful accepting another job with same co before taking your redundancy… or you’re not redundant!
I’m not sure on this but as far as I understood it, if you are at risk of redundancy and wanting to take it, you really don’t want to have accepted another role with the company that is trying to make you redundant, Or you’re not being made redundant. You just changed roles.
So whatever they say Id hold firm that I’ve not accepted a new role with them. IIRC You could say something like, “I accept redundancy, but would look positively at rejoining this company if new roles are created after the redundancy round”
Or something like that. But if you want redundancy really be careful accepting another job with same co before taking your redundancy… or you’re not redundant!
hepy said:
Does my verbal acceptance of the role with my current company mean I now can't 'back out', leave the company and take a redundancy payment?
Info that seems useful here: https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/redundancy/...Employment law takes verbal as binding but it’s down to the reasonable belief judgement to whether it stands up in tribunal. There is also a ‘heat of the moment’ clause if you tell you boss you’re leaving in a moment of stroppiness - they can’t hold you to it but guess there’s also nothing to stop them moving you on in other ways.
deja.vu said:
I think you’ve missed the main point the OP is asking about.
Does he’s verbal acceptance mean that, if he does chose to leave, he will be resigning from the new role rather than being made redundant from the old one?
I think you're both correct and have a point. if the OP accepts the new role internally and then subsequently leaves, then they are resigning and not getting redundancy. If the OP wants the redundancy money and the new external job then he needs to accept the redundancy and reject the internal role. Does he’s verbal acceptance mean that, if he does chose to leave, he will be resigning from the new role rather than being made redundant from the old one?
The decision depends upon the timing. If the OP interviews for the new job, gets an offer and accepts, then he can take the redundancy and have a new job and is laughing. If he needs to choose between redundancy and the internal role before interviewing for the external job they run the risk of coming out of this with redundancy money but no job or just a missed opportunity.
I suspect for an internal transfer there won't be a new written contract so verbal will be seen as accepting the new internal role. I would try and put off that decision for as long as you can to see if you can get the external role first.
Aunty Pasty said:
deja.vu said:
I think you’ve missed the main point the OP is asking about.
Does he’s verbal acceptance mean that, if he does chose to leave, he will be resigning from the new role rather than being made redundant from the old one?
I think you're both correct and have a point. if the OP accepts the new role internally and then subsequently leaves, then they are resigning and not getting redundancy. If the OP wants the redundancy money and the new external job then he needs to accept the redundancy and reject the internal role. Does he’s verbal acceptance mean that, if he does chose to leave, he will be resigning from the new role rather than being made redundant from the old one?
The decision depends upon the timing. If the OP interviews for the new job, gets an offer and accepts, then he can take the redundancy and have a new job and is laughing. If he needs to choose between redundancy and the internal role before interviewing for the external job they run the risk of coming out of this with redundancy money but no job or just a missed opportunity.
I suspect for an internal transfer there won't be a new written contract so verbal will be seen as accepting the new internal role. I would try and put off that decision for as long as you can to see if you can get the external role first.
He has already verbal accepted the internal offer and is now asking if that verbal offer is legally binging
deja.vu said:
I think you’ve missed the main point the OP is asking about.
Does he’s verbal acceptance mean that, if he does chose to leave, he will be resigning from the new role rather than being made redundant from the old one?
I answered the point immediately, Yes it is binding.. Does he’s verbal acceptance mean that, if he does chose to leave, he will be resigning from the new role rather than being made redundant from the old one?
The consequence of a binding verbal agreement is that that new job has been accepted thus it is not a redundancy (although technically there is a question as to whether or not that offer was suitable alternative employment etc but I don't think the OP raised that, may be wrong).....
I accept I did not explicitly point out the consequence but I assumed it would be understand as the logical outcome following a binding agreement as asked.
Jasandjules said:
deja.vu said:
I think you’ve missed the main point the OP is asking about.
Does he’s verbal acceptance mean that, if he does chose to leave, he will be resigning from the new role rather than being made redundant from the old one?
I answered the point immediately, Yes it is binding.. Does he’s verbal acceptance mean that, if he does chose to leave, he will be resigning from the new role rather than being made redundant from the old one?
The consequence of a binding verbal agreement is that that new job has been accepted thus it is not a redundancy (although technically there is a question as to whether or not that offer was suitable alternative employment etc but I don't think the OP raised that, may be wrong).....
I accept I did not explicitly point out the consequence but I assumed it would be understand as the logical outcome following a binding agreement as asked.
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