Retraction of agreed pay rise. Is it ‘legal’?

[Gretchen]

After some advice if anyone can help.

If an employee of a large National company was told verbally in August they’d be receiving a pay rise backdated to the 1st of the month and subsequently received emails to confirm this, only five months later to have not received said rise and when chased told it isn’t going to be actioned ‘legal’?

[simon_harris]

I would say it depends on who sent you the email, if they were not authorised to agree a pay rise you will be on a road to nowhere

[Panamax]

Yes, it's a straightforward "contract" question.

If the pay rise became part of your contract it's enforceable. If it didn't, it's not.

The principle of contract generally involves "offer" and "acceptance". Acceptance can be either by saying "yes, thank you" or by continuing to work after the new rate of pay was said to come into effect.

Is it worth dying in a ditch for it? That's an entirely separate issue.

[Gretchen]

simon_harris said:

I would say it depends on who sent you the email, if they were not authorised to agree a pay rise you will be on a road to nowhere

Management and their Area Manager. The latter no longer the Manager of the area in question.

[Gretchen]

Panamax said:

Yes, it's a straightforward "contract" question.

If the pay rise became part of your contract it's enforceable. If it didn't, it's not.

The principle of contract generally involves "offer" and "acceptance". Acceptance can be either by saying "yes, thank you" or by continuing to work after the new rate of pay was said to come into effect.

Is it worth dying in a ditch for it? That's an entirely separate issue.

I found this from a Financial Times article



All done verbally initially, subsequently emails.

Dying in a ditch? It was worth turning down another job offer for at the time and taking on extra responsibilities in the current role. Hence the rise.

[Panamax]

Gretchen said:

It was worth turning down another job offer for at the time.

If that was part of the "contract" then it's very relevant indeed.

"I won't leave if you pay me me more money."

"OK, we'll pay you more money if you stay."

If you then stayed it cements the bargain.

There's no cut and dried answer. These things are always decided on their provable facts if you end up in court/tribunal.

[Type R Tom]

Gretchen said:

Dying in a ditch? It was worth turning down another job offer for at the time and taking on extra responsibilities in the current role. Hence the rise.

Not particularly helpful, but this seems to be the standard response relating to pay rises on PH recently "don't like it leave."

(sorry)

[Gretchen]

Type R Tom said:

Not particularly helpful, but this seems to be the standard response relating to pay rises on PH recently "don't like it leave."

(sorry)

And that’s exactly the sort of attitude that more people should be ‘willing to die in a ditch’. No one stands up for their rights anymore. Just bend over and take it, do as you’re told and shut up or get out.

It’s the principle of things.

[Type R Tom]

Gretchen said:

Type R Tom said:

Not particularly helpful, but this seems to be the standard response relating to pay rises on PH recently "don't like it leave."

(sorry)

And that’s exactly the sort of attitude that more people should be ‘willing to die in a ditch’. No one stands up for their rights anymore. Just bend over and take it, do as you’re told and shut up or get out.

It’s the principle of things.

Completely agree with you mate

[Countdown]

Gretchen said:

simon_harris said:

I would say it depends on who sent you the email, if they were not authorised to agree a pay rise you will be on a road to nowhere

Management and their Area Manager. The latter no longer the Manager of the area in question.

I don't think they're in a position to offer binding pay awards. I've always assumed an offer only becomes binding when HR send out the new Contract.

[Panamax]

Countdown said:

I've always assumed an offer only becomes binding when HR send out the new Contract.

Which brings us back to the contractual principle of offer and acceptance that I set out above. An enforceable acceptance can either be by some form of provable communication (i.e. not just verbal, unless there are witnesses) or by performance of the new contract. Something like turning down the other job offer - assuming that offer was given in writing and turned down in writing - would help. Again, it needs to be provable.

And yes, the "offer" needs to be made by someone who actually has real authority to make that offer or who might reasonably be thought to have the authority to make it. For instance, if you accepted a job offer made by CEO and HR subsequently tried to withdraw it could almost certainly continue to rely on what the CEO had done.

[dudleybloke]

Find another job then don't work your notice, you're not breaking any contract now.

[Gretchen]

Panamax said:

Countdown said:

I've always assumed an offer only becomes binding when HR send out the new Contract.

Which brings us back to the contractual principle of offer and acceptance that I set out above. An enforceable acceptance can either be by some form of provable communication (i.e. not just verbal, unless there are witnesses) or by performance of the new contract. Something like turning down the other job offer - assuming that offer was given in writing and turned down in writing - would help. Again, it needs to be provable.

And yes, the "offer" needs to be made by someone who actually has real authority to make that offer or who might reasonably be thought to have the authority to make it. For instance, if you accepted a job offer made by CEO and HR subsequently tried to withdraw it could almost certainly continue to rely on what the CEO had done.

Most helpful thank you. Evidence ranges from notes of a meeting signed by Manager and employee to subsequent emails chasing the rise being actioned. Assuming this is sufficient what would you suggest the next step is?

[Jasandjules]

What is your overall position? Would you leave if it is not upheld? Or will you just accept it? Your outcome and potential next steps have an impact upon what approach to take in my view...

[Gretchen]

Jasandjules said:

What is your overall position? Would you leave if it is not upheld? Or will you just accept it? Your outcome and potential next steps have an impact upon what approach to take in my view...

I think it good reason they’d possibly resign should the pay rise not be honoured. As is they’ve already worked five months believing they were on a higher rate.

[craigjm]

The next step is to make it official and raise a grievance.

[Jasandjules]

Gretchen said:

Jasandjules said:

What is your overall position? Would you leave if it is not upheld? Or will you just accept it? Your outcome and potential next steps have an impact upon what approach to take in my view...

I think it good reason they’d possibly resign should the pay rise not be honoured. As is they’ve already worked five months believing they were on a higher rate.

If they will resign then they need to make it clear that they do not accept the lack of pay rise and their continued working is not an acceptance of that failure which they consider fundamental. Then lodge a grievance and note the Grievance is lodged and they will continue to work pending the outcome of the grievance.

[Gretchen]

Jasandjules said:

Gretchen said:

Jasandjules said:

What is your overall position? Would you leave if it is not upheld? Or will you just accept it? Your outcome and potential next steps have an impact upon what approach to take in my view...

I think it good reason they’d possibly resign should the pay rise not be honoured. As is they’ve already worked five months believing they were on a higher rate.

If they will resign then they need to make it clear that they do not accept the lack of pay rise and their continued working is not an acceptance of that failure which they consider fundamental. Then lodge a grievance and note the Grievance is lodged and they will continue to work pending the outcome of the grievance.

Could you explain why please? Thank you

[Panamax]

There are various possible ways forward but none of them are particularly attractive. That's because all of them risk being labelled a trouble-maker. You might eventually win this pay increase but never see another pay increase or promotion again. And although employers are required to give a reference when you leave they still have considerable flexibility as to what they say in it.

IF the pay increase became part of your employment terms you can,

• Raise a grievance (what does your existing contract say?) and/or
• Sue for unpaid salary.

[Marcellus]

Countdown said:

I don't think they're in a position to offer binding pay awards. I've always assumed an offer only becomes binding when HR send out the new Contract.

IMO the manager once the has confirmed to the employee in email that they’re getting an x% or £x pay rise then that’s the offer.

Even if the manager has acted beyond the scope of their authority, that’s not the employees issue as the manager has acted with “apparent authority”.

In my experience (20years large corporate) HR had purely an administration when it came to confirmation letters, they created the manager then signed and sent their role was more to protect the company from litigation etc.

OP is the new management structure that you’re now a part of and HR aware of the offer emails you have from your former manager?

I would as a first step make sure they are, not just aware that there may be emails but show them the actual emails that clearly state you will get x%/£ effective from xyz date, not really going “fully grievance” yet but asking them to help clarify your confusion……. If the offer emails are as clear as you think then HR will look to protect the company, they’re not really concerned if it’s not in the budget etc etc