Umbrella obstructive for claiming business mileage

[DickP]

Hi,

First please bear with me as I have typed this on my phone.

I have been doing some temporary work between finishing one permanent role and starting another. The temp work has been sourced working for a client via an agency, with me employed by an umbrella company for the duration of the temporary work.

Contractual relationship is as follows:

Client
Agency
Umbrella Company
Employee (me)

I submit a timesheet to the agency for hours worked. This includes a mileage form. They claim these sums then from the client, and pass them to the umbrella for processing and ultimately payment to me.

I have to also submit mileage expense detail to the umbrella company otherwise they treat it as salary and tax it accordingly. Their website portal is very difficult to use and as I was very mobile for the work I have many entries to put in. I believe the system obstructive for claiming mileage it is that none user formerly and they will not accept an excel document detailing all information requested.

They will also, unless I explicitly state to them it differs, use the mileage that their portal calculates based on postcode therefore may be pocketing the money sent to them by the agency.

They will deduct mileage unless receipt is provided for the total fuel used. Working as an employee elsewhere they only needed a fuel receipt per claim for a VAT number. The umbrella has given the impression failure to do this means they pocket the rest if I can’t demonstrate total fuel used. Rate paid is 45 pence per mile.

Is there anything in law or HMRC which forces them to accept easy to digest info like excel spreadsheet clearly giving date, travel description, postcode start and end per journey and distance travelled? Do I have to give them fuel receipts that match or exceed their estimates for MPG even though they will have been paid the value of my claim by the agency?

For anyone wanting to know who they are, they share the same name as the UK currency.

I would be grateful for any guidance offered.

Thanks,

[Jordie Barretts sock]

They can ask for the information however they wish. If they want it in Latin, they can ask for it.

Obviously you have the common sense approach, but that doesn't mean that's how they want it. A lot of companies pay postcode to postcode for simplicity and because they don't trust their employees not to go the 'long way around'.

You have my sympathy, but there's nothing in law that forces them to accept what their employees want to give them.

[mikef]

An umbrella is a low-touch, low-cost operation, for the reason that their users (“employees”) want to minimize the monies that the umbrella withholds. Many won’t even deal with expenses, just treat it as additional salary and expect you to try to sort it out with HMRC at end of tax year. They will operate an expenses system that minimizes the admin that they need to do, so no you can’t require them to do otherwise

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DickP said:

Hi,

Is there anything in law or HMRC which forces them to accept easy to digest info like excel spreadsheet clearly giving date, travel description, postcode start and end per journey and distance travelled?

Afraid not.

DickP said:

Do I have to give them fuel receipts that match or exceed their estimates for MPG even though they will have been paid the value of my claim by the agency?

Given that they are an Umbrella that sounds like a p155take. I assume they are charging VAT on your costs to the end-client. the end -client pays the invoice and the Umbrella is supposed to hand over the VAT to HMRC. However it seems like the Umbrella is trying to reclaim the VAT that you have paid and keep it for themselves.

i.e. they charge the End-User £20 VAT. You provide receipts showing £10 VAT. of the £20 VAT they charged the end client they keep £10 and only hand over £10 to HMRC.

It's sneaky but I don't think it's technically illegal as you are an employee of the Umbrella company.

[DickP]

Thanks for the responses, appreciated and useful.

Yes they do appear to want to get the VAT back too, but I guess they wouldn't be in the business of being an umbrella company if they were not to maximise intake with every potential method available.

mikef said:

An umbrella is a low-touch, low-cost operation, for the reason that their users (“employees”) want to minimize the monies that the umbrella withholds. Many won’t even deal with expenses, just treat it as additional salary and expect you to try to sort it out with HMRC at end of tax year. They will operate an expenses system that minimizes the admin that they need to do, so no you can’t require them to do otherwise

I'm not sure how someone can recover the amount otherwise lost to tax? Say you lose 40% of your mileage claim value because it's been processed as salary, as far as I understand you can only get the tax (i.e. 40%) of the difference you've been paid against the 45 pence per mile rate?

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mikef said:

An umbrella is a low-touch, low-cost operation, for the reason that their users (“employees”) want to minimize the monies that the umbrella withholds. Many won’t even deal with expenses, just treat it as additional salary and expect you to try to sort it out with HMRC at end of tax year. They will operate an expenses system that minimizes the admin that they need to do, so no you can’t require them to do otherwise

Just in relation to this bit - it's not actually any more work for the UC to process the mileage as non-taxable. The mileage element is set up on the payroll system to ensure no tax or NI is deducted If they're taxing mileage then they are incompetent.

[DickP]

Update:

I have danced to the umbrella company's tune and spent an age submitting the mileage in the way they wanted it.

They have authorised most of my mileage claim but are withholding the last 41 miles because the fuel receipt provided, in their view, is insufficient to include this last 41 miles. i.e. they have decided that my car does x mpg and therefore my fuel receipt at x mpg will equate to y miles.

On this basis are they permitted to withhold my remaining mileage claim?

[dundarach]

IANAL

However I always track all my journeys with Google Maps on my phone. This clearly shows exactly where and when I've been.

Do you have this turned on, on your phone, could you show them this?

[DickP]

Unfortunately irrelevant as their software application / mileage input decides the journey distance by the shortest route, and they won't budge on it so am already losing out on some of the mileage paid by the client! i.e. umbrella may be pocketing this difference!