Leaving a company after they paid for your qualifications

[simons123]

I'm naturally a very loyal person normally. After university I worked in an industry I hated and stayed in the same job for several years....however nearly 2 years ago I moved to a different industry (career change) in my mid 30's and they agreed to pay for a 2 year degree conversion course (masters) whilst working full time and studying 1 day a week.

For a company to do this with me having no experience is pretty amazing and I'll be forever greatful.....however the job itself I'm really enjoying but they have put me at a client location that takes between 1 hour and 1 hour 20 mins a day to get to and the same coming home back to Manchester, I'm pretty much alone in my own office on a daily basis on the clients base and I miss speaking to people, having banter with a team, etc..there are other people here but they are the client who are not very welcoming despite me being very friendly and the atmosphere is pretty toxic there.

I have 6 months of my degree to go. I've checked my contract and can't see anywhere about paying the money back. Despite me being in my 30's it's an apprenticeship so assume the degree is ipaid by the apprenticeship levy as I'm working for a big company. As far as I know if it's funded by the apprenticeship levy it doesn't have to be paid back??? Ideally out of loyalty I feel I should stay...however the commute is doing my head in now (they won't allow hybrid working or working on a base closer to my house), I miss having a team around me and the toxic environment is a little unpleasant.

Would it be wrong of me to leave after I finish my degree? I could get a similar job for more money once I'm qualified closer to home and in an office with a team that's not the client with hybrid working allowed, but then they have done so much for me the other half of me things I owe them.

Edited by simons123 on Friday 9th December 09:28

Edited by simons123 on Friday 9th December 09:29

Edited by simons123 on Friday 9th December 09:35

[Sycamore]

Usually you'd sign a study support agreement separately to your contract.
It's what I had to do for them to pay for my degree.
I left and got had to repay accordingly.

If there's nothing in your contract then I'd go for it

[simons123]

Sycamore said:

Usually you'd sign a study support agreement separately to your contract.
It's what I had to do for them to pay for my degree.
I left and got had to repay accordingly.

If there's nothing in your contract then I'd go for it

Was yours funded by an apprenticeship levy or was this a private agreement with the company? I did sign a study agreement but was with the apprenticeship company.

[R56Cooper]

simons123 said:

Sycamore said:

Usually you'd sign a study support agreement separately to your contract.
It's what I had to do for them to pay for my degree.
I left and got had to repay accordingly.

If there's nothing in your contract then I'd go for it

Was yours funded by an apprenticeship levy or was this a private agreement with the company? I did sign a study agreement but was with the apprenticeship company.

Check what the study agreement says but as above poster says, unless you agreed a repayment clause with your employer you can leave without liability to repay it. There may be something in your contract of employment even if you didn't sign a separate training agreement so check that too.

If there's nothing about repayment, you can leave without liability.

Might be best to have a candid discussion with your manager first though. Outline the challenges you're experiencing and your expectations about how you would like the next few years to pan out. They've clearly seen something in you and if they have any sense, chances are they will be keen to retain you if they understand how you're feeling and what you're considering.

Just resigning without prior discussion may not go down well and I'm a big believer in not burning one's bridges, especially if the nature of industry means that you might cross paths in the future.

[bigandclever]

Reading between the lines are you working for Company A who farms you out to Company B? In which case, your first conversation is about being assigned away from Company B to somewhere else, since that seems to be your source of pain.

Also, an hour or so commute is sod all

[ReverendCounter]

simons123 said:

the job itself I'm really enjoying

Good!

simons123 said:

but they have put me at a client location that takes between 1 hour and 1 hour 20 mins a day to get to and the same coming home back to Manchester,

Bad

simons123 said:

I'm pretty much alone in my own office on a daily basis on the clients base and I miss speaking to people, having banter with a team, etc..

Bad

simons123 said:

there are other people here but they are the client who are not very welcoming despite me being very friendly and the atmosphere is pretty toxic there.

Bad

simons123 said:

the commute is doing my head in now (they won't allow hybrid working or working on a base closer to my house), I miss having a team around me and the toxic environment is a little unpleasant.

I would say one solution is:

Move closer to the job - less commute - theoretically possible
Extract yourself from the toxic environment - is this possible? can you do the job without being in their office? can you drop into their office once/twice a day for meetings?
Place yourself in a positive environment - theoretically possible, can you use another office near the client as a base to work from? It used to be a thing that start ups and other businesses used to rent out a desk if they had some space spare - maybe you could put this to your employer, see if they'll give you a budget to find a desk somewhere.

If no to the above, you have to work out why there is animosity + negativity from the client. Is it due to a bad relationship between your employer and the client? If so can you try to get them to see they're making it personal by freezing you out and making things unpleasant, that its not your fault - have you tried to get them to see it from your POV?

Have you perhaps just focused on trying to be friends, rather than trying to get them to see their attitude toward them is misplaced and that you're not responsible? Do they just resent having to have a representative there?

There may be a solution, but perhaps plan for an exit to a happier, friendlier work environment just in case.

[TwistingMyMelon]

Have a chat to your boss , they might not realize and be keen not to lose you

[Countdown]

simons123 said:

I'm naturally a very loyal person normally. After university I worked in an industry I hated and stayed in the same job for several years....however nearly 2 years ago I moved to a different industry (career change) in my mid 30's and they agreed to pay for a 2 year degree conversion course (masters) whilst working full time and studying 1 day a week.

For a company to do this with me having no experience is pretty amazing and I'll be forever greatful.....however the job itself I'm really enjoying but they have put me at a client location that takes between 1 hour and 1 hour 20 mins a day to get to and the same coming home back to Manchester, I'm pretty much alone in my own office on a daily basis on the clients base and I miss speaking to people, having banter with a team, etc..there are other people here but they are the client who are not very welcoming despite me being very friendly and the atmosphere is pretty toxic there.

I have 6 months of my degree to go. I've checked my contract and can't see anywhere about paying the money back. Despite me being in my 30's it's an apprenticeship so assume the degree is ipaid by the apprenticeship levy as I'm working for a big company. As far as I know if it's funded by the apprenticeship levy it doesn't have to be paid back??? Ideally out of loyalty I feel I should stay...however the commute is doing my head in now (they won't allow hybrid working or working on a base closer to my house), I miss having a team around me and the toxic environment is a little unpleasant.

Would it be wrong of me to leave after I finish my degree? I could get a similar job for more money once I'm qualified closer to home and in an office with a team that's not the client with hybrid working allowed, but then they have done so much for me the other half of me things I owe them.

Correct. Apprentices can leave at any time during or after their study period has completed and there's nothing to repay to the Employer. (It's not really the Employer's money once they have paid the Levy)

In terms of feeling obligated to the, I understand where you're coming from. Some people wouldn't give a toss. I've had people swear blind that they would see out their fixed term contract but leave half way through. If i was in your shoes I'd have a conversation with my Line Manager. No employer wants to keep somebody who doesnt want to be there.

ETA if you're an Apprentice are you getting your one day per week study leave?

[QJumper]

Have a word with the company that employs you, and see if there's anything they can do, they may be helpful. Otherwise check your contract and leave if you feel you have no option.

I understand where you're coming from regarding loyalty but, in my experience, large companies rarely show loyalty in return if they feel the need to lose people.

[CoupeKid]

Some organisations are just cliquey. There’s probably nothing much you can do about it. After a while you’ll find someone who’s less hostile to outsiders that you’ll get on with.

I’d say that rather than going out to try to get to know people, do the opposite. Be quiet and let them come to you. When you’ve been there a few months you’ll to be part of the furniture and they’ll forget why they saw you as a threat in the first place.

[Fat hippo]

I left part way through a training contract. It wasn’t easy finding another contract, and once qualified, The question as to why I moved came up on numerous interviews for years after so didn’t come across well.

I’d be having a word with the manager and trying to hold out for next 6 months. Once you’ve finished your course would be a better time to leave and most forms expect staff will leave for better prospects after gaining a qualification

[simons123]

R56Cooper said:

simons123 said:

Sycamore said:

Usually you'd sign a study support agreement separately to your contract.
It's what I had to do for them to pay for my degree.
I left and got had to repay accordingly.

If there's nothing in your contract then I'd go for it

Was yours funded by an apprenticeship levy or was this a private agreement with the company? I did sign a study agreement but was with the apprenticeship company.

Check what the study agreement says but as above poster says, unless you agreed a repayment clause with your employer you can leave without liability to repay it. There may be something in your contract of employment even if you didn't sign a separate training agreement so check that too.

If there's nothing about repayment, you can leave without liability.

Might be best to have a candid discussion with your manager first though. Outline the challenges you're experiencing and your expectations about how you would like the next few years to pan out. They've clearly seen something in you and if they have any sense, chances are they will be keen to retain you if they understand how you're feeling and what you're considering.

Just resigning without prior discussion may not go down well and I'm a big believer in not burning one's bridges, especially if the nature of industry means that you might cross paths in the future.

You are right but if I mention the commute and the unhappy environment to them now with just over 6 months to go they might just stop funding,.so personally think it be best for me to stay quiet about the issue until I'm in a better position once qualified

[simons123]

bigandclever said:

Reading between the lines are you working for Company A who farms you out to Company B? In which case, your first conversation is about being assigned away from Company B to somewhere else, since that seems to be your source of pain.

Also, an hour or so commute is sod all

Company B is a long term contract and there isn't any other nearer contracts to my location at this time....1 hour sod all?! Personally think its a crazy commute doing a minimum 2 hours a day lol

[simons123]

ReverendCounter said:

simons123 said:

the job itself I'm really enjoying

Good!

simons123 said:

but they have put me at a client location that takes between 1 hour and 1 hour 20 mins a day to get to and the same coming home back to Manchester,

Bad

simons123 said:

I'm pretty much alone in my own office on a daily basis on the clients base and I miss speaking to people, having banter with a team, etc..

Bad

simons123 said:

there are other people here but they are the client who are not very welcoming despite me being very friendly and the atmosphere is pretty toxic there.

Bad

simons123 said:

the commute is doing my head in now (they won't allow hybrid working or working on a base closer to my house), I miss having a team around me and the toxic environment is a little unpleasant.

I would say one solution is:

Move closer to the job - less commute - theoretically possible
Extract yourself from the toxic environment - is this possible? can you do the job without being in their office? can you drop into their office once/twice a day for meetings?
Place yourself in a positive environment - theoretically possible, can you use another office near the client as a base to work from? It used to be a thing that start ups and other businesses used to rent out a desk if they had some space spare - maybe you could put this to your employer, see if they'll give you a budget to find a desk somewhere.

If no to the above, you have to work out why there is animosity + negativity from the client. Is it due to a bad relationship between your employer and the client? If so can you try to get them to see they're making it personal by freezing you out and making things unpleasant, that its not your fault - have you tried to get them to see it from your POV?

Have you perhaps just focused on trying to be friends, rather than trying to get them to see their attitude toward them is misplaced and that you're not responsible? Do they just resent having to have a representative there?

There may be a solution, but perhaps plan for an exit to a happier, friendlier work environment just in case.

For whatever reason they are very anti working from home despite being a big company, also as other people in similar roles are doing the same as me based at clients office and it's been like it for years, I just don't think they will make exceptions just for me....I'm actually an outgoing, friendly guy, I've tried but they are the moodiest, quietest bunch of people you can meet. Does get quite lonely tbh sitting in my office on my own. Be bliss for some but not for me.

[simons123]

Another reason as well I'm wondering whether it be best to move on is fortunately it's a booming sector and I get at least 2 job offers a week on LinkedIn offering hybrid working, closer to home locations and slightly more money despite my lack of experience.

I was super loyal to companies who gave me zero progression in my 20's. Now I'm mid 30's I'm thinking Im already 5 years behind career wise so wondering if I need to be ruthless and grab as many opportunities as I can once qualified and try different sectors in the same role....however it's against my character to be disloyal especially as they have been so good to me...really tough dilemma in all honesty.

[bigandclever]

simons123 said:

bigandclever said:

Reading between the lines are you working for Company A who farms you out to Company B? In which case, your first conversation is about being assigned away from Company B to somewhere else, since that seems to be your source of pain.

Also, an hour or so commute is sod all

Company B is a long term contract and there isn't any other nearer contracts to my location at this time....1 hour sod all?! Personally think its a crazy commute doing a minimum 2 hours a day lol

Oh, it is on a personal level (which is all that matters, really) But the average UK commute is just under an hour, so it’s nothing special. ETA Actually, that’s probably a pre-covid stat.

[ReverendCounter]

simons123 said:

... it's a booming sector and I get at least 2 job offers a week on LinkedIn offering hybrid working, closer to home locations and slightly more money despite my lack of experience.

Then I think it's time you laid your cards out to your current employer and tell them how unhappy you are, despite loving the job.

If they counter with a pay rise, that isn't going to make you happier - you've still got that commute and the toxic environment.

If they don't put something in place to remove those, then it's time to look after yourself if they won't look after you.

I don't even know if this is the done thing, but could you consider paying them back for the cost of study, so you can walk away with a free conscience and into a new job?

[Mojooo]

Look after number 1
See what contract says about repayment

I would probably hold out for 6 months unless you can find another organisation that will carry on your funding. If not. hold out for 6 months.

[R56Cooper]

simons123 said:

R56Cooper said:

simons123 said:

Sycamore said:

Usually you'd sign a study support agreement separately to your contract.
It's what I had to do for them to pay for my degree.
I left and got had to repay accordingly.

If there's nothing in your contract then I'd go for it

Was yours funded by an apprenticeship levy or was this a private agreement with the company? I did sign a study agreement but was with the apprenticeship company.

Check what the study agreement says but as above poster says, unless you agreed a repayment clause with your employer you can leave without liability to repay it. There may be something in your contract of employment even if you didn't sign a separate training agreement so check that too.

If there's nothing about repayment, you can leave without liability.

Might be best to have a candid discussion with your manager first though. Outline the challenges you're experiencing and your expectations about how you would like the next few years to pan out. They've clearly seen something in you and if they have any sense, chances are they will be keen to retain you if they understand how you're feeling and what you're considering.

Just resigning without prior discussion may not go down well and I'm a big believer in not burning one's bridges, especially if the nature of industry means that you might cross paths in the future.

You are right but if I mention the commute and the unhappy environment to them now with just over 6 months to go they might just stop funding,.so personally think it be best for me to stay quiet about the issue until I'm in a better position once qualified

Ah I see, sorry don't think I read it properly.

I had a similar dilemma as a trainee solicitor. Was part way through my qualification period and was basically earning minimum wage, treated like st, expected to stay late and work etc. Had to just suck it up until I qualified, following which I promptly resigned and got another job with a massive payrise.

[Jefferson Steelflex]

You say you've checked the contract and can't see anything about paying money back. If that's the case, then what's stopping you?

But most importantly, loyalty doesn't pay the bills and gets you nowhere. It's a common misconception when you're young that your employer has done you a favour and looked after you. Sure, there is some of that but every successful person generally gets where they are with a bit of selfishness. Your employer, if they wanted/needed to would get rid of you in a heartbeat.

Loyalty and guilt are 'good' emotions, but keep them in perspective and put yourself first. Speak to your boss, tell him that the commute and working environment are not ideal and can he give you assurance what the next x months will look like. Then base your decision on that response. You should also look at the other roles you are being asked about, it will take a month to get an interview and another 2-3 to get a firm offer.