Internships

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Discussion

BoRED S2upid

Original Poster:

20,346 posts

247 months

Wednesday 5th October 2022
quotequote all
Can anyone recommend employers who offer decent internships? Subjects - law, maths, sciences. Or scholarships although both as valuable as each other. Anything that will ensure a very bright student gets the best jobs out there after they graduate with a first.

Thanks.

Gargamel

15,217 posts

268 months

Wednesday 5th October 2022
quotequote all
BoRED S2upid said:
Can anyone recommend employers who offer decent internships? Subjects - law, maths, sciences. Or scholarships although both as valuable as each other. Anything that will ensure a very bright student gets the best jobs out there after they graduate with a first.

Thanks.
https://www.ratemyplacement.co.uk/best-student-employers

This will help - ''science" is quite a broad category.

BoRED S2upid

Original Poster:

20,346 posts

247 months

Wednesday 5th October 2022
quotequote all
Thanks, spotted that, investment banking they seem to specialise in internships. I want to think wider than just banking.

z4RRSchris

11,518 posts

186 months

Wednesday 5th October 2022
quotequote all
100% of the time at our place its the son / daughter of a staff member or client

Countdown

42,039 posts

203 months

Wednesday 5th October 2022
quotequote all
BoRED S2upid said:
Can anyone recommend employers who offer decent internships? Subjects - law, maths, sciences. Or scholarships although both as valuable as each other. Anything that will ensure a very bright student gets the best jobs out there after they graduate with a first.

Thanks.
For Law try applying to one of the Magic Circle firms in London. For maths/science it depends significantly on which industry/sector they want to be working in after they leave.

Countdown

42,039 posts

203 months

Wednesday 5th October 2022
quotequote all
z4RRSchris said:
100% of the time at our place its the son / daughter of a staff member or client
I did the same with my nephews/nieces. However when its a member of staff it's usually unpaid (unless they're filling a vacancy).

z4RRSchris

11,518 posts

186 months

Wednesday 5th October 2022
quotequote all
doubt you'll get a paid intership for a few weeks during the holidays!

Any of the larger "city" jobs will have schemes you need to apply for but they are usually for uni kids, not pre uni.

law - good luck getting an internship Pre Uni at a magic circle firm unless you know a partner. During Unit they have very competitive schemes which you need to apply for and are fought over tooth and nail.


BoRED S2upid

Original Poster:

20,346 posts

247 months

Wednesday 5th October 2022
quotequote all
z4RRSchris said:
doubt you'll get a paid intership for a few weeks during the holidays!

Any of the larger "city" jobs will have schemes you need to apply for but they are usually for uni kids, not pre uni.

law - good luck getting an internship Pre Uni at a magic circle firm unless you know a partner. During Unit they have very competitive schemes which you need to apply for and are fought over tooth and nail.
That’s what we need paid internship during Uni summer hols. Doesn’t matter how competitive it is life is competitive.

z4RRSchris

11,518 posts

186 months

Wednesday 5th October 2022
quotequote all
ah ok much easier:

all the big accountants, lawyers, banks, traders, insurance, property agents etc etc will have formal schemes - look on their websites and apply, also attend as many fairs where you know grad recruitment teams will be and get your name known etc.

it’s dog eat dog out there. good luck. you’ll stand a 10x better chance at law / IB grad schemes if you’ve done 3 x summer internships and 3 x winter ones.

BoRED S2upid

Original Poster:

20,346 posts

247 months

Wednesday 5th October 2022
quotequote all
z4RRSchris said:
ah ok much easier:

all the big accountants, lawyers, banks, traders, insurance, property agents etc etc will have formal schemes - look on their websites and apply, also attend as many fairs where you know grad recruitment teams will be and get your name known etc.

it’s dog eat dog out there. good luck. you’ll stand a 10x better chance at law / IB grad schemes if you’ve done 3 x summer internships and 3 x winter ones.
Thank you that’s a valuable insight and gives us some research to do. Not for me I’m far too old for such things.

PaulWoof

1,651 posts

162 months

Wednesday 5th October 2022
quotequote all
Unsure on the case for different internships specifically across what seems a variety of fields. But to add also look out for Spring weeks. From when I was on my internship alot had been on a "spring week" previously, which I had no idea existed. Basically an internship for an internship.
So when it came to graduate programs it wasnt uncommon to find people who had been on spring week -> Internship -> Grad programme and only faced 1 actual interview as they got invited into the next one.

Applications for internships seem to open earlier and earlier each year with all the companies competing for the same grads and trying to lock down the best earlier. Most big companies at least on the finance side open applications end of september/october for internships starting July the following year.


BoRED S2upid

Original Poster:

20,346 posts

247 months

Wednesday 5th October 2022
quotequote all
brickwall said:
Ok. Basically there are three big ones:

Investment Banking
Front office advisory, or markets/trading. Companies like Goldman, Morgan Stanley, JPMorgan, BAML, Citi.
- These schemes are comparatively large - often 50-100 interns a year in London for each bank
- Typically 10 weeks long, done in the summer between penultimate and final year of university.
- Typically leave with a full-time job offer to take up after finishing uni. This forms the backbone of the graduate intake for the banks, much fewer places available straight into a grad job (and typically they go to individuals who did internships at other banks)
- Ultra competitive. Grades, uni course and CV need to be top notch. Expect a battery of tests and interviews.
- Pay typically £12-15k for the 10-week summer scheme.
- Expect to work 100-hour weeks, especially on the advisory side
- Applications close around now.

Top-tier consulting
There are only 3 companies in this bracket: McKinsey, Bain & Company, and Boston Consulting Group. Oliver Wyman, Accenture, et al are materially lower grade.
- Very similar structure and calendar to the IB internships - 8-10 weeks long, done in summer between penultimate and final year at uni, expectation of a full-time job offer at the end
- If anything more competitive than the investment banking schemes, because they’re much smaller (there are maybe 50 spaces available across all three top firms). You have to be seriously impressive.
- Pay perhaps slightly less (maybe £10k for the summer), but the hours are typically a bit easier too and the work more exciting (there’s a decent chance you’ll be getting on a plane)
- Application cycle is typically a little later (applications open now, but often don’t close until the new year)

Law
Magic Circle firms: Slaughter & May, Allen & Overy, Clifford Chance, Freshfields, Linklaters; plus the top American firms like White & Case, Skadden, Kirkland & Ellis, etc.
- Often referred to as “vacation schemes” they are typically shorter, and less well paid.
- Not the same expectation of a job offer at the end - though often a different track for the subsequent full-time application cycle.
Thanks.

I’m guessing for any of these you have to be at a top Uni Russell Group minimum?

Ezra

629 posts

34 months

Wednesday 5th October 2022
quotequote all
BoRED S2upid said:
brickwall said:
Ok. Basically there are three big ones:

Investment Banking
Front office advisory, or markets/trading. Companies like Goldman, Morgan Stanley, JPMorgan, BAML, Citi.
- These schemes are comparatively large - often 50-100 interns a year in London for each bank
- Typically 10 weeks long, done in the summer between penultimate and final year of university.
- Typically leave with a full-time job offer to take up after finishing uni. This forms the backbone of the graduate intake for the banks, much fewer places available straight into a grad job (and typically they go to individuals who did internships at other banks)
- Ultra competitive. Grades, uni course and CV need to be top notch. Expect a battery of tests and interviews.
- Pay typically £12-15k for the 10-week summer scheme.
- Expect to work 100-hour weeks, especially on the advisory side
- Applications close around now.

Top-tier consulting
There are only 3 companies in this bracket: McKinsey, Bain & Company, and Boston Consulting Group. Oliver Wyman, Accenture, et al are materially lower grade.
- Very similar structure and calendar to the IB internships - 8-10 weeks long, done in summer between penultimate and final year at uni, expectation of a full-time job offer at the end
- If anything more competitive than the investment banking schemes, because they’re much smaller (there are maybe 50 spaces available across all three top firms). You have to be seriously impressive.
- Pay perhaps slightly less (maybe £10k for the summer), but the hours are typically a bit easier too and the work more exciting (there’s a decent chance you’ll be getting on a plane)
- Application cycle is typically a little later (applications open now, but often don’t close until the new year)

Law
Magic Circle firms: Slaughter & May, Allen & Overy, Clifford Chance, Freshfields, Linklaters; plus the top American firms like White & Case, Skadden, Kirkland & Ellis, etc.
- Often referred to as “vacation schemes” they are typically shorter, and less well paid.
- Not the same expectation of a job offer at the end - though often a different track for the subsequent full-time application cycle.
Thanks.

I’m guessing for any of these you have to be at a top Uni Russell Group minimum?
Wouldn't disagree with anything in the above, but would add that some of these jobs are more than torturous for a grad, even 2, 3, 4 yrs out of uni. For those that stay the course, for sure there can be large rewards/big jobs. But a lot don't - I've got 35 yrs experience with a major Swiss bank and seen many, many really top grads drop out of the schemes.

There are alternate routes and very big jobs outside the main IB's, Consultancies and Law firms for top grads. My son is a bit of a numbers geek and graduated in 2017 with a first in Maths from Warwick. Never did any internships, travelled during summer vacs, dossed at home in other hols. Got a steady job straight from uni, via milk round type process, as a general recruit with an actuarial consultant, did a good job, networked etc and then moved after 12 mths and joined, ironically, another major Swiss bank as a general recruit. Again, did a good job, worked hard (deffo not ridiculous hours tho), networked, kept in touch with recruiters/headhunters and moved just before Covid. Joined London office of a niche US based hedge fund, as a general recruit.....did good job/worked hard/made a v good impression. So, he's now 25, on the verge of being promoted to fund manager, earns a frankly obscene base salary (well into 6 figs!) and 100%+ bonus and.....has a nice work / life balance.

I say all this to illustrate such an alternate route. Also, it's not just about being bright and getting a first in a traditional subject degree from a good uni. To really climb the greasy pole you've also gotta be competitive, street wise, in the right place at right time, be willing to put yourself about, be flexible, grasp every opportunity offered, avoid social media (or at least make sure there's not anything whatsoever thats even remotely unsavoury on your electronic footprint), know how to negotiate, know when to speak your mind, know when to shut up, etc, etc, etc.

Good luck to your offspring. Let them enjoy uni and being a student, travel in the summer, etc and not worry too much about internships etc. If they are the right calibre, cream always rises to the top.

z4RRSchris

11,518 posts

186 months

Thursday 6th October 2022
quotequote all
All the PE firms also have intern routes, Bain, Oaktree, KKR, Terra Firma etc etc, The hours are brutal.

the internship route is much easier I still think than the grafting route. I did the latter (PERE fund)

RizzoTheRat

26,003 posts

199 months

Thursday 6th October 2022
quotequote all
Possibly more interesting than being a photocopy operator for a big London law form, quite a few international organisations offer internships related to Law. The first 3 in The Hague and NATO in several locations around Europe.

The International Criminal Court https://www.icc-cpi.int/jobs/interns-eligibility

Permenant Court of Arbitration https://pca-cpa.org/en/about/employment/internship...

Eurojust https://www.eurojust.europa.eu/about-us/jobs/train...

NATO https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/71157.htm

Edited by RizzoTheRat on Thursday 6th October 10:11

zbc

899 posts

158 months

Thursday 6th October 2022
quotequote all
Alternate suggestion - Amazon. All sorts of internships available and looks good on the CV

z4RRSchris

11,518 posts

186 months

Thursday 6th October 2022
quotequote all
watch series 1 of industry on BBC - pretty much like that except without the parties and drugs, just more working instead.

h0b0

8,182 posts

203 months

Thursday 6th October 2022
quotequote all
z4RRSchris said:
watch series 1 of industry on BBC - pretty much like that except without the parties and drugs, just more working instead.
The series hit a lot of cultural points but I was amazed the writers had worked in the industry. It felt like they had interviewed a couple of people who were and they had jotted down some key points.


z4RRSchris

11,518 posts

186 months

Thursday 6th October 2022
quotequote all
its just a dramatized version of events, as the reality of pulling 18 hour days writing decks that don't get used and you will get zero credit for, and building models only to get them ripped apart by a VP isn't that exciting, you don't talk to clients, you don't go on lunches etc etc.




z4RRSchris

11,518 posts

186 months

Thursday 6th October 2022
quotequote all
brickwall said:
Agree.
Though the schemes are quite small (even at the large funds), as a lot of the investment and portfolio teams join after doing a couple of years in IB or MBB consulting.
one of the lads i work with:

Business school, scholarship for masters, 3.93gpa
Internships during Uni: Deloitte, KPMG, Merrill, Blackrock, JPM, B&C
Analyst at JPM
Then into PE