Should I say something or not?
Discussion
HI All,
Some years ago, I obtained a job in a private school as a member of the Support Staff. I joined (what was then) the pension scheme - a Final salary pension. About 5 years after this, they closed the scheme to new and future members of staff - but those already on the Final salary scheme stayed on it.
As the years have progressed, I'm the only member of the Support Staff left who was enrolled on the FS scheme.
I had a Departmental meeting yesterday and my Line Manager (ill-advisedly) commented "you are in a brilliant final salary pension scheme" - this was said in front of another co-worker. In a sense, I can understand resentment from my fellow workers that I'm in a better pension scheme than them.
My point is, I'm annoyed that my pension arrangements should have been brought to light - I've certainly never mentioned them to anyone - and why should I have to defend myself, when I only took what was provided at the time?
Shouldn't information such as pension arrangements be confidential ? What reasons might the school's Finance Department have, to divulge this information to anyone else?
My Line Manager (who couldn't have known otherwise) must have been given details of my pension arrangement by someone in the Finance Department - but what possible justification could there be for this? Our department is IT, so why should my line manager have been given this information - it has no bearing on the tasks that I do within the parameters of my role.
I'm not happy that my pension should be a topic of discussion amongst other members of staff. {I can't help but wonder, if having such a pension has been a reason to curtail salary increases}.
The obvious problem with making a complaint, is that if/when the person responsible receives a reprimand, it'll just cause more resentment - I'll still have to come into contact with them.
Should I have a word with the School Bursar ?, or should I keep quiet about it, on the basis that I've only a few years until retirement?
Some years ago, I obtained a job in a private school as a member of the Support Staff. I joined (what was then) the pension scheme - a Final salary pension. About 5 years after this, they closed the scheme to new and future members of staff - but those already on the Final salary scheme stayed on it.
As the years have progressed, I'm the only member of the Support Staff left who was enrolled on the FS scheme.
I had a Departmental meeting yesterday and my Line Manager (ill-advisedly) commented "you are in a brilliant final salary pension scheme" - this was said in front of another co-worker. In a sense, I can understand resentment from my fellow workers that I'm in a better pension scheme than them.
My point is, I'm annoyed that my pension arrangements should have been brought to light - I've certainly never mentioned them to anyone - and why should I have to defend myself, when I only took what was provided at the time?
Shouldn't information such as pension arrangements be confidential ? What reasons might the school's Finance Department have, to divulge this information to anyone else?
My Line Manager (who couldn't have known otherwise) must have been given details of my pension arrangement by someone in the Finance Department - but what possible justification could there be for this? Our department is IT, so why should my line manager have been given this information - it has no bearing on the tasks that I do within the parameters of my role.
I'm not happy that my pension should be a topic of discussion amongst other members of staff. {I can't help but wonder, if having such a pension has been a reason to curtail salary increases}.
The obvious problem with making a complaint, is that if/when the person responsible receives a reprimand, it'll just cause more resentment - I'll still have to come into contact with them.
Should I have a word with the School Bursar ?, or should I keep quiet about it, on the basis that I've only a few years until retirement?
Edited by pubrunner on Friday 23 September 08:33
Did your colleague actually express any resentment towards finding out that you have more lucrative pension terms? Or are you speculating they are? Final Salary Pensions are a thing of the past in most industries and everyone knows this; I would say there is nothing to be resentful about working with someone who has grandfathered terms just because they've worked with the same employer for a long time.
I suspect your line manager will have access to your (and any other direct reports) monthly earnings, costs, total cash etc, for budgetary reasons? Your pension contributions probably look very different to everyone and they've deducted (or asked and found out) the reason why is because you're on a FSP. Of course if your manager doesn't hold any budgetary responsibilities they have obviously found out through another means, but why/how may not be as malicious as you think. I do agree it was ill advised to bring it up in conversation though.
IMO I think you might be over-thinking this whole situation, but then personally I don't care about other people knowing that kind of thing. If you think there has been foul play, it may be worth pursuing in the form of a formal grievance.
I suspect your line manager will have access to your (and any other direct reports) monthly earnings, costs, total cash etc, for budgetary reasons? Your pension contributions probably look very different to everyone and they've deducted (or asked and found out) the reason why is because you're on a FSP. Of course if your manager doesn't hold any budgetary responsibilities they have obviously found out through another means, but why/how may not be as malicious as you think. I do agree it was ill advised to bring it up in conversation though.
IMO I think you might be over-thinking this whole situation, but then personally I don't care about other people knowing that kind of thing. If you think there has been foul play, it may be worth pursuing in the form of a formal grievance.
You haven't provided the context as to why that comment was made. It can't have come out of the blue.
Anyone who knows that the scheme existed would be able to work out you were on it. There must be some underlying tension that is causing you to take umbrage to it.
GDPR has nothing to do with it, and I can't see how it is a internal policy breach issue. The most you can expect for is a "Sorry, I didn't realise it was a contentious comment". But I can't see this helping your relationship with LM or colleagues.
Anyone who knows that the scheme existed would be able to work out you were on it. There must be some underlying tension that is causing you to take umbrage to it.
GDPR has nothing to do with it, and I can't see how it is a internal policy breach issue. The most you can expect for is a "Sorry, I didn't realise it was a contentious comment". But I can't see this helping your relationship with LM or colleagues.
If they knew how long you had worked there and when the final salary stuff was stopped they would know what pension you were on. No one has been disclosing your info they just worked it out as its no doubt public info when the scheme closed. Leave it and get on with your life in the knowledge that they haven't stopped your pension benefits (yet).
parabolica said:
Did your colleague actually express any resentment towards finding out that you have more lucrative pension terms? Or are you speculating they are? Final Salary Pensions are a thing of the past in most industries and everyone knows this; I would say there is nothing to be resentful about working with someone who has grandfathered terms just because they've worked with the same employer for a long time.
Agreed. In the past I have worked with people still on Final Salary and they were very quick to let people know they were on it, but there was no resentment. They were also very quick to tell me off for not opting in myself, but I was young and naive and was just focused on what I was taking home each month 
parabolica said:
I suspect your line manager will have access to your (and any other direct reports) monthly earnings, costs, total cash etc, for budgetary reasons? Your pension contributions probably look very different to everyone and they've deducted (or asked and found out) the reason why is because you're on a FSP. Of course if your manager doesn't hold any budgetary responsibilities they have obviously found out through another means, but why/how may not be as malicious as you think. I do agree it was ill advised to bring it up in conversation though.
pubrunner said:
why should I have to defend myself, when I only took what was provided at the time?
Why do you feel the need to defend yourself with other co-workers?You benefits are your business - if your co-workers feel aggrieved about theirs, they need to take it up with their superiors, not you.
Should your line manager have disclosed this? No. I would be a bit narked about that in terms of the principle of my benefits package being shared with others. I would therefore voice my irritation with my line manager accordingly.
But, frankly, I think he or she has created more of a rock for their back rather than yours and they are the ones that will have to deal with anyone else who isn't happy about it.
SmithCorona said:
Anyone who knows that the scheme existed would be able to work out you were on it.
No-one knew it existed - the scheme closed 20 years ago. I didn't really see the need to it discuss with anyone, especially as they've only been working here a few years. Whilst they are brilliant at IT, my colleagues have no idea of what FS pensions are - until someone from the Finance department told them.parabolica said:
I suspect your line manager will have access to your (and any other direct reports) monthly earnings, costs, total cash etc, for budgetary reasons?
My Line manager does not have access for budgetary reasons; his financial concerns are related only to IT equipment - hardware and software.I'm of an age where I've never discussed anything financial with anyone else - apart from SWMBO.
The comment was made as a way of 'letting me know how well I'm doing'.
Just before hand, he'd let me and my colleague know 'how well we are doing' by saying that 'we'd done well to get a 3% pay increase'. I should mention, that he has no say in what we are paid or what the pay increases should be. I mentioned that it was well below inflation, when he then made his comment.
Having reflected on it, I'll try to forget about the matter - after all, not many years to go before retirement. I'll go home tonight and have a glass or two and focus on the good things in my life.
Oh yes, thank you all for the responses - always good to have a neutral opinion - which is what makes this forum so good - there's always sound advice available.
Edited by pubrunner on Friday 23 September 10:36
Personally, I think it needs to be raised, as pay and conditions are a sensitive topic that should be kept confidential. If this manager doesn't understand that, they might not see any issue with discussing other confidential issues, like medical problems.
I'd have no issue with your immediate line manager knowing what your terms are, but it's not on for them to disclose that to others.
Perhaps a quiet word to your line manager is in order. If they react badly or can't see what they've done is wrong, you can go over their head and raise a formal grievance.
I'd have no issue with your immediate line manager knowing what your terms are, but it's not on for them to disclose that to others.
Perhaps a quiet word to your line manager is in order. If they react badly or can't see what they've done is wrong, you can go over their head and raise a formal grievance.
R56Cooper said:
Personally, I think it needs to be raised, as pay and conditions are a sensitive topic that should be kept confidential. If this manager doesn't understand that, they might not see any issue with discussing other confidential issues, like medical problems.
I'd have no issue with your immediate line manager knowing what your terms are, but it's not on for them to disclose that to others.
Perhaps a quiet word to your line manager is in order. If they react badly or can't see what they've done is wrong, you can go over their head and raise a formal grievance.
I agree with you, but on reflection, I think it would only cause more resentment; if I raise the matter I don't see that it would benefit me in any way. I think that I'd probably be marked down as being difficult or contrary. In my experience, most of those younger than me (most people) freely discuss such issues and see no problems with this . . . but that's no the way I like to do things.I'd have no issue with your immediate line manager knowing what your terms are, but it's not on for them to disclose that to others.
Perhaps a quiet word to your line manager is in order. If they react badly or can't see what they've done is wrong, you can go over their head and raise a formal grievance.
R56Cooper said:
Personally, I think it needs to be raised, as pay and conditions are a sensitive topic that [b]should be kept confidential.[\b] If this manager doesn't understand that, they might not see any issue with discussing other confidential issues, like medical problems.
I'd have no issue with your immediate line manager knowing what your terms are, but it's not on for them to disclose that to others.
Perhaps a quiet word to your line manager is in order. If they react badly or can't see what they've done is wrong, you can go over their head and raise a formal grievance.
Why? Why should they be kept confidential? Who benefits from that? I'd have no issue with your immediate line manager knowing what your terms are, but it's not on for them to disclose that to others.
Perhaps a quiet word to your line manager is in order. If they react badly or can't see what they've done is wrong, you can go over their head and raise a formal grievance.
ARHarh said:
If they knew how long you had worked there and when the final salary stuff was stopped they would know what pension you were on. No one has been disclosing your info they just worked it out as its no doubt public info when the scheme closed. Leave it and get on with your life in the knowledge that they haven't stopped your pension benefits (yet).
Most likely this.Personally I think letting it go is probably the right decision.
If you’re this close to retirement, maximise enjoyment and quality of relationships at work. Don’t turn work into a stressful place, which any sort of escalation is likely to do.
Last thing you want to do is kick of a chain of events that puts you in a stressful situation. It’s bad for health to hang onto a job for a few years in a toxic environment, unable to leave as you need to stay for the pension…… an own goal over something that is unlikely to benefit you in any way. Recompense for missed raises etc…? very very unlikely & this is court level stuff. What’s the point over a few K this close to a comfy retirement?
If you have a good working relationship with your manager you could say something like;
“Off the record, I just wanted to give you some feedback on the meeting the other day. I was surprised when you disclosed my pension arrangements with other members of staff.
I realised you raised it trying to give me a positive message, but from my perspective disclosing that could create a bit of resentment in the team. I’d prefer not have to worry about that kind of stuff, which is one of the reasons why I have always chosen to keep my finances private.
What’s done is done and we can’t take it back.
There is nothing we can do about it now, but Im letting you know this so you’re more careful if you’re ever in a similar situations in the future. Be vigilant to keep personnel’s confidential information confidential, if you don’t, you actually expose yourself to the risk of formal complaint!
As I say, end of the matter for me. What’s done is done, but I just wanted to let you know how I felt and to give positively intended feedback to be more guarded in the future. I think we have a great relationship and want you to continue being a trusted people leader, not just to me, but to everyone in your team. “
Something like that if the leader is good will probably be well received and give you some goodwill. If the manger is an idiot, I’d probably not mention it and keep head down if rest of job is good.
Sorry you have to deal with this. Never nice. But does sound like a good gig you have, so protect the good stuff and enjoy life
If you’re this close to retirement, maximise enjoyment and quality of relationships at work. Don’t turn work into a stressful place, which any sort of escalation is likely to do.
Last thing you want to do is kick of a chain of events that puts you in a stressful situation. It’s bad for health to hang onto a job for a few years in a toxic environment, unable to leave as you need to stay for the pension…… an own goal over something that is unlikely to benefit you in any way. Recompense for missed raises etc…? very very unlikely & this is court level stuff. What’s the point over a few K this close to a comfy retirement?
If you have a good working relationship with your manager you could say something like;
“Off the record, I just wanted to give you some feedback on the meeting the other day. I was surprised when you disclosed my pension arrangements with other members of staff.
I realised you raised it trying to give me a positive message, but from my perspective disclosing that could create a bit of resentment in the team. I’d prefer not have to worry about that kind of stuff, which is one of the reasons why I have always chosen to keep my finances private.
What’s done is done and we can’t take it back.
There is nothing we can do about it now, but Im letting you know this so you’re more careful if you’re ever in a similar situations in the future. Be vigilant to keep personnel’s confidential information confidential, if you don’t, you actually expose yourself to the risk of formal complaint!
As I say, end of the matter for me. What’s done is done, but I just wanted to let you know how I felt and to give positively intended feedback to be more guarded in the future. I think we have a great relationship and want you to continue being a trusted people leader, not just to me, but to everyone in your team. “
Something like that if the leader is good will probably be well received and give you some goodwill. If the manger is an idiot, I’d probably not mention it and keep head down if rest of job is good.
Sorry you have to deal with this. Never nice. But does sound like a good gig you have, so protect the good stuff and enjoy life
pubrunner said:
Shouldn't information such as pension arrangements be confidential ?
I think that's a tricky questions - most places, yes, but some jobs (e.g. NHS) have a public payscale where jobs and bands are intertwined so everyone knows how much everyone else gets paid.It depends more on the culture, and also the contract of employment (some explicitly prohibit discussion of remuneration, whether that's enforceable or not is a different matter but it shows intent).
pubrunner said:
I can't help but wonder, if having such a pension has been a reason to curtail salary increases
Isn't the answer to that "obviously"?Your final salary pension, and any other perks or benefits are part of your total remuneration package, they have a cost to the company and you can't just ignore those when thinking about salary increases.
Not quite the same thing but recently my LM mentioned on a project team call that I was off sick with COVID. Now there is nothing sensitive in that and I have no issue with people knowing. However I did mention it to him on the basis that I or someone else might have an issue with that being disclosed. My LM was very grateful that I mentioned it and promised to give more thought to such messages in the future.
Completely depends on the culture and your relationship with the LM in my opinion, but I would always call out a "slip of the tongue" that might make someone feel uncomfortable to stop it happening again.
Completely depends on the culture and your relationship with the LM in my opinion, but I would always call out a "slip of the tongue" that might make someone feel uncomfortable to stop it happening again.
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