Discussion
Bit of a rambling rant here!
So any other electrical engineers on here? I’m really loosing any interest I have in the area. For background I have a reasonably safe job in a semi state utility mainly working in powerstations. The role involves a lot of travel, pay is very poor I think for the calls /decisions we have to make and we seem to loose engineers every day of the week.
Recently got chartered status and also getting landed with some direct reports, graduate engineers. There is no pay increase for either of those additions to my role.
I’m 36, have enough savings to build a house and a GF who’s a nurse and realises I’m not happy at the moment.
I used to be an electrician and in Ireland the take home for that is around 50k….I’m not getting a lot more than that. I left that due to loss of work in the last recession and went back to Uni.
Thinking back there was little responsibility, go in to work get what you could done in the day and no one annoying you about 101 different things. I’ve really lost all motivation at this point in time. It’s an endless list of driving about the country staying in crap hotels or else stuck in a home office writing reports. I’ve no really hoboes as such and have little to do when work is over.
I guess I’m thinking of self employment in some shape or form, I’ve lots of other skills in addition to the degrees/trade, excavator driving, artic licence etc. is anyone else completely fed up with “Engineering”.
So any other electrical engineers on here? I’m really loosing any interest I have in the area. For background I have a reasonably safe job in a semi state utility mainly working in powerstations. The role involves a lot of travel, pay is very poor I think for the calls /decisions we have to make and we seem to loose engineers every day of the week.
Recently got chartered status and also getting landed with some direct reports, graduate engineers. There is no pay increase for either of those additions to my role.
I’m 36, have enough savings to build a house and a GF who’s a nurse and realises I’m not happy at the moment.
I used to be an electrician and in Ireland the take home for that is around 50k….I’m not getting a lot more than that. I left that due to loss of work in the last recession and went back to Uni.
Thinking back there was little responsibility, go in to work get what you could done in the day and no one annoying you about 101 different things. I’ve really lost all motivation at this point in time. It’s an endless list of driving about the country staying in crap hotels or else stuck in a home office writing reports. I’ve no really hoboes as such and have little to do when work is over.
I guess I’m thinking of self employment in some shape or form, I’ve lots of other skills in addition to the degrees/trade, excavator driving, artic licence etc. is anyone else completely fed up with “Engineering”.
On the pay point, I'm finding that it isn't really increasing much in my field (manufacturing/production engineering), despite all the talk in the media of pay increases in employment generally. Some places in the East Mids are advertising jobs with salary ranges starting at sub-£30k! I've seen warehouse jobs in the area offering £26k (and that's not even the night shift).
Think some firms want the talent, but aren't prepared to pay for it.
Think some firms want the talent, but aren't prepared to pay for it.
Pay in the company is a a strange one. There is older staff on unbelievable salaries as the old solution to any IR issues was pay the staff more to keep them quiet.
The terms and conditions changed then about 10 years ago and have swung the other way.
Hard to bite when your doing more work than someone getting paid three-four times more than you. But that’s life and fair play to them for getting there.
Yes there is better salaries in the private sector but I think it’s just the whole electrical power engineering area I’ve fallen out of love with. It’s either going to be writing reports or siting in a site role arguing with sub contractors about progress/quality issues etc. or if your with a private company being on the other side of the table and the client getting on to you about progress/quality issues.
As for design it’s all substations, switchgear, cables,transformers so there is no reinventing the wheel going on so no real options in that area that interest me.
Could be time for a third career change.
The terms and conditions changed then about 10 years ago and have swung the other way.
Hard to bite when your doing more work than someone getting paid three-four times more than you. But that’s life and fair play to them for getting there.
Yes there is better salaries in the private sector but I think it’s just the whole electrical power engineering area I’ve fallen out of love with. It’s either going to be writing reports or siting in a site role arguing with sub contractors about progress/quality issues etc. or if your with a private company being on the other side of the table and the client getting on to you about progress/quality issues.
As for design it’s all substations, switchgear, cables,transformers so there is no reinventing the wheel going on so no real options in that area that interest me.
Could be time for a third career change.
Edited by d8666 on Sunday 14th August 13:02
It sounds like you've decided what you need to do, you just need to do it! Believe me, I know how easy it is to become comfortable and disillusioned and just stick with it anyway.
The industry I work in uses scales for pay that mean that everyone in the same job is on very different pay. New starters with minimal experience come in on much more than the staff that have been there a while. You either accept your lot or you jump ship and seek out better pay.
For you it sounds like the money really isn't the motivation, it's the lack of job satisfaction. Hope you find something better
The industry I work in uses scales for pay that mean that everyone in the same job is on very different pay. New starters with minimal experience come in on much more than the staff that have been there a while. You either accept your lot or you jump ship and seek out better pay.
For you it sounds like the money really isn't the motivation, it's the lack of job satisfaction. Hope you find something better
Electrical engineering is an interesting one
I am one of 4 mechanicals (and the most senior because I’m chartered) in a team of 80 electricals. We are switching quite large amounts of power – 800+ MW
Big electrical engineering has been done, as you say, switches, cables, transformers. If you had to buy any of that kit new, it’s highly likely it comes from abroad. We are just keeping old kit going until it fails/gets decommissioned.
We have electricians starting here as staff, because they don’t want to run their own business, go out quoting, faff around in people’s lofts, and increasingly so, not deal with property maintenance companies who seem to do the darndest to stitch them up. The pay isn’t great, but its 8 to 4:30, a nice office, interesting work. But - If you are chartered, you are nowhere near electrician level.
We (the UK) have to start investing in new power hardware as the differences in power generation start coming through.. That’s why the National Grid has a £54B new hardware budget to spend. But it’s not beyond the wit of man to see this as copy/paste operation for the foreseeable.
Staying in hotels and writing reports sounds absolute mind numbing, well it is – I’ve done it.
Fed up with engineering? In a word – for me- yes And its for all the standard reasons.
Pay has been gradually reducing pro rata by about 1% for around 50 years now.
At the risk of thrashing a dead horse, there’s the job status issue.
I’m convinced the institutions (especially the mechanicals) are part of the cause not the solution.
The paperwork is at least double what it was when I started in ’86, and that’s not just me climbing the tree and coming into contact with more of it.
There isn’t enough demarcation between draughtsman, designer, engineer, and a principal engineer. I suspect HR has their sticky fingers over this one…
To get paid more money in a lot of organisations, a thoroughly brilliant engineer has to become a manager, a role they may be terrible at, and not actually enjoy. Why not just pay them more?
In an engineering company, being a genuinely senior engineer (or an engineering manager) means a huge amount of responsibility and decision making arrives on your desk daily. I am comfortable with the amount of responsibility related to engineering issues but was feeling uncomfortable with the amount of responsibility I was talking in relation to not-quite-engineering related issues. This was due to that sales department incapable of assessing priority, so its gets done for them.
The annoying part is, we are going to see some massive changes, and its engineers to the fore.
A nuclear build program which needs a massive kick up the bum to get going. This winter should prove interesting…. Let’s hope it’s a cold one!
Integration of solar and wind into the grid, and one hopes another 2 or 3 Dinorwics which will keep me busy for the foreseeable 15-20 years.
The demise of gas and coal burning and what we do in the meantime.
More EVs on the road
The above National grid spend to connect it up to what we have now.
The only way to solve the pay issue is to leave.
I am one of 4 mechanicals (and the most senior because I’m chartered) in a team of 80 electricals. We are switching quite large amounts of power – 800+ MW
Big electrical engineering has been done, as you say, switches, cables, transformers. If you had to buy any of that kit new, it’s highly likely it comes from abroad. We are just keeping old kit going until it fails/gets decommissioned.
We have electricians starting here as staff, because they don’t want to run their own business, go out quoting, faff around in people’s lofts, and increasingly so, not deal with property maintenance companies who seem to do the darndest to stitch them up. The pay isn’t great, but its 8 to 4:30, a nice office, interesting work. But - If you are chartered, you are nowhere near electrician level.
We (the UK) have to start investing in new power hardware as the differences in power generation start coming through.. That’s why the National Grid has a £54B new hardware budget to spend. But it’s not beyond the wit of man to see this as copy/paste operation for the foreseeable.
Staying in hotels and writing reports sounds absolute mind numbing, well it is – I’ve done it.
Fed up with engineering? In a word – for me- yes And its for all the standard reasons.
Pay has been gradually reducing pro rata by about 1% for around 50 years now.
At the risk of thrashing a dead horse, there’s the job status issue.
I’m convinced the institutions (especially the mechanicals) are part of the cause not the solution.
The paperwork is at least double what it was when I started in ’86, and that’s not just me climbing the tree and coming into contact with more of it.
There isn’t enough demarcation between draughtsman, designer, engineer, and a principal engineer. I suspect HR has their sticky fingers over this one…
To get paid more money in a lot of organisations, a thoroughly brilliant engineer has to become a manager, a role they may be terrible at, and not actually enjoy. Why not just pay them more?
In an engineering company, being a genuinely senior engineer (or an engineering manager) means a huge amount of responsibility and decision making arrives on your desk daily. I am comfortable with the amount of responsibility related to engineering issues but was feeling uncomfortable with the amount of responsibility I was talking in relation to not-quite-engineering related issues. This was due to that sales department incapable of assessing priority, so its gets done for them.
The annoying part is, we are going to see some massive changes, and its engineers to the fore.
A nuclear build program which needs a massive kick up the bum to get going. This winter should prove interesting…. Let’s hope it’s a cold one!
Integration of solar and wind into the grid, and one hopes another 2 or 3 Dinorwics which will keep me busy for the foreseeable 15-20 years.
The demise of gas and coal burning and what we do in the meantime.
More EVs on the road
The above National grid spend to connect it up to what we have now.
The only way to solve the pay issue is to leave.
You have transferable skill sets. Depending on where you are based. The defence industry has some pretty exciting projects on the go at the moment, firms like BAE etc are crying out for staff. That said at 50k+ salary you would be looking at principle engineer roles or project management roles. If you are willing to take a lower salary, you may be able to earn more with less responsibility if there is shiftwork and overtime available. Also stuff like hs2, but it is all location dependent.
Rob_125 said:
You have transferable skill sets. Depending on where you are based. The defence industry has some pretty exciting projects on the go at the moment, firms like BAE etc are crying out for staff. That said at 50k+ salary you would be looking at principle engineer roles or project management roles. If you are willing to take a lower salary, you may be able to earn more with less responsibility if there is shiftwork and overtime available. Also stuff like hs2, but it is all location dependent.
'take home'=50k....d8666 said:
Bit of a rambling rant here!
So any other electrical engineers on here? I’m really loosing any interest I have in the area. For background I have a reasonably safe job in a semi state utility mainly working in powerstations. The role involves a lot of travel, pay is very poor I think for the calls /decisions we have to make and we seem to loose engineers every day of the week.
Recently got chartered status and also getting landed with some direct reports, graduate engineers. There is no pay increase for either of those additions to my role.
I’m 36, have enough savings to build a house and a GF who’s a nurse and realises I’m not happy at the moment.
I used to be an electrician and in Ireland the take home for that is around 50k….I’m not getting a lot more than that. I left that due to loss of work in the last recession and went back to Uni.
Thinking back there was little responsibility, go in to work get what you could done in the day and no one annoying you about 101 different things. I’ve really lost all motivation at this point in time. It’s an endless list of driving about the country staying in crap hotels or else stuck in a home office writing reports. I’ve no really hoboes as such and have little to do when work is over.
I guess I’m thinking of self employment in some shape or form, I’ve lots of other skills in addition to the degrees/trade, excavator driving, artic licence etc. is anyone else completely fed up with “Engineering”.
Mechanical by degree. So any other electrical engineers on here? I’m really loosing any interest I have in the area. For background I have a reasonably safe job in a semi state utility mainly working in powerstations. The role involves a lot of travel, pay is very poor I think for the calls /decisions we have to make and we seem to loose engineers every day of the week.
Recently got chartered status and also getting landed with some direct reports, graduate engineers. There is no pay increase for either of those additions to my role.
I’m 36, have enough savings to build a house and a GF who’s a nurse and realises I’m not happy at the moment.
I used to be an electrician and in Ireland the take home for that is around 50k….I’m not getting a lot more than that. I left that due to loss of work in the last recession and went back to Uni.
Thinking back there was little responsibility, go in to work get what you could done in the day and no one annoying you about 101 different things. I’ve really lost all motivation at this point in time. It’s an endless list of driving about the country staying in crap hotels or else stuck in a home office writing reports. I’ve no really hoboes as such and have little to do when work is over.
I guess I’m thinking of self employment in some shape or form, I’ve lots of other skills in addition to the degrees/trade, excavator driving, artic licence etc. is anyone else completely fed up with “Engineering”.
I think I fell into the wrong sectors early on which clouded my judgement somewhat as there's definitely some well paid Mechanical Engineers lurking about these forums.
After being made redundant in the last recession I joined the Army. Did use my degree a little bit as a REME Officer but TBH that was the worst bit of the job, they're obsessed with Chartership and the word EngO Viva gives me the shudders now. I quickly decided that was generally for billy bulls
tters that could talk a good game. I now drive trains and despite setting the alarm for 0340 this morning have never been happier work wise (well outside captaining various Army ski teams all season, best job in the world
).I'll never go back to an Engineering job, well no one would pay me enough to consider it.
Edited by ChocolateFrog on Monday 15th August 08:53
Can you design resi/commercial installations?
Or if you can't design them, do you know how they all work?
Do you know how much they would cost or could you learn it from the information/contacts you have?
If you can design them, I would be talking to M&E consultants in the construction industry. If you have any get up and go you will do very well. Even if you don't do 'building' stuff, the big consultancies will doing work for power companies/government and will also be eyeing up how they can cash in on the upgrading of the network for EV etc.
Remember that the people/clients making the decisions or managing it all won't have the first idea of how it all works; they need somebody to tell them and will pay for it. Or if they do understand it, they need somebody to make it happen for them.
If you don't fancy designing stuff but understand how it works, then the big QS firms desperate for people with M&E experience. Nobody in construction understands the 'dark art' and whilst QS's are great at counting bricks they only benchmark M&E costs against other schemes. They will pay very handsomely for someone who can look at a M&E subbie price, break it down, challenge it and save a Client money.
It's unusual for people to go from tools to management/consultancy but that's mainly down to personal barriers. You have the knowledge, do you have the confidence/skills to work in a 'clean' professional environment, in teams and deal with Clients?
Sorry, a bit of a ramble, more aimed at providing a different perspective to help (or maybe complicate!) your thinking. Basically don't limit yourself and thinking to what you're doing now (which you don't like) and your comfort zones. Think about how your knowledge and expertise can be used elsewhere.
Mid thirties is a tough time in your career - done it long enough to be an 'expert', done it long enough to be bored and need a fresh challenge. Good luck
Or if you can't design them, do you know how they all work?
Do you know how much they would cost or could you learn it from the information/contacts you have?
If you can design them, I would be talking to M&E consultants in the construction industry. If you have any get up and go you will do very well. Even if you don't do 'building' stuff, the big consultancies will doing work for power companies/government and will also be eyeing up how they can cash in on the upgrading of the network for EV etc.
Remember that the people/clients making the decisions or managing it all won't have the first idea of how it all works; they need somebody to tell them and will pay for it. Or if they do understand it, they need somebody to make it happen for them.
If you don't fancy designing stuff but understand how it works, then the big QS firms desperate for people with M&E experience. Nobody in construction understands the 'dark art' and whilst QS's are great at counting bricks they only benchmark M&E costs against other schemes. They will pay very handsomely for someone who can look at a M&E subbie price, break it down, challenge it and save a Client money.
It's unusual for people to go from tools to management/consultancy but that's mainly down to personal barriers. You have the knowledge, do you have the confidence/skills to work in a 'clean' professional environment, in teams and deal with Clients?
Sorry, a bit of a ramble, more aimed at providing a different perspective to help (or maybe complicate!) your thinking. Basically don't limit yourself and thinking to what you're doing now (which you don't like) and your comfort zones. Think about how your knowledge and expertise can be used elsewhere.
Mid thirties is a tough time in your career - done it long enough to be an 'expert', done it long enough to be bored and need a fresh challenge. Good luck
I'm a chartered chemical engineer I moved into projects as the pay progression was better, sometimes I miss being hands on out on the plants but I can always go back.
You could look at roles which your skills are transferable. Few Electrical Engineers that I know are in a mixture of commissioning and projects roles. I can say in my industry (Nuclear) you should be looking at starting of 60-75K.
You could look at roles which your skills are transferable. Few Electrical Engineers that I know are in a mixture of commissioning and projects roles. I can say in my industry (Nuclear) you should be looking at starting of 60-75K.
a311 said:
I'm a chartered chemical engineer I moved into projects as the pay progression was better, sometimes I miss being hands on out on the plants but I can always go back.
You could look at roles which your skills are transferable. Few Electrical Engineers that I know are in a mixture of commissioning and projects roles. I can say in my industry (Nuclear) you should be looking at starting of 60-75K.
Was going to suggest nuclear myself. You could look at roles which your skills are transferable. Few Electrical Engineers that I know are in a mixture of commissioning and projects roles. I can say in my industry (Nuclear) you should be looking at starting of 60-75K.
Salaries are significantly higher.
Plenty of interesting stuff, from power, decommissioning, subs and weapons.
Then you have all the advanced nuke projects starting up.
You could go licensee, prime contract emoyee, independent contractor or regulator routes.
Rates can be well over a thousand per diem contract. I was paying that for one of my contracts last year.
TGCOTF-dewey said:
a311 said:
I'm a chartered chemical engineer I moved into projects as the pay progression was better, sometimes I miss being hands on out on the plants but I can always go back.
You could look at roles which your skills are transferable. Few Electrical Engineers that I know are in a mixture of commissioning and projects roles. I can say in my industry (Nuclear) you should be looking at starting of 60-75K.
Was going to suggest nuclear myself. You could look at roles which your skills are transferable. Few Electrical Engineers that I know are in a mixture of commissioning and projects roles. I can say in my industry (Nuclear) you should be looking at starting of 60-75K.
Salaries are significantly higher.
Plenty of interesting stuff, from power, decommissioning, subs and weapons.
Then you have all the advanced nuke projects starting up.
You could go licensee, prime contract emoyee, independent contractor or regulator routes.
Rates can be well over a thousand per diem contract. I was paying that for one of my contracts last year.
TGCOTF-dewey said:
Was going to suggest nuclear myself.
Salaries are significantly higher.
Plenty of interesting stuff, from power, decommissioning, subs and weapons.
Then you have all the advanced nuke projects starting up.
I wouldn't recommend it myself.Salaries are significantly higher.
Plenty of interesting stuff, from power, decommissioning, subs and weapons.
Then you have all the advanced nuke projects starting up.
Each to their own and all that, and it may well excite some people, but it is typically very slow and frustrating.
You may be lucky to join a project at the "correct" time or you may very well work on something for years that is never completed, after going around the design review loop many, many times with increasingly innane comments.
Woodrow Wilson said:
TGCOTF-dewey said:
Was going to suggest nuclear myself.
Salaries are significantly higher.
Plenty of interesting stuff, from power, decommissioning, subs and weapons.
Then you have all the advanced nuke projects starting up.
I wouldn't recommend it myself.Salaries are significantly higher.
Plenty of interesting stuff, from power, decommissioning, subs and weapons.
Then you have all the advanced nuke projects starting up.
Each to their own and all that, and it may well excite some people, but it is typically very slow and frustrating.
You may be lucky to join a project at the "correct" time or you may very well work on something for years that is never completed, after going around the design review loop many, many times with increasingly innane comments.
But, it's not that hard to steer your career towards the more interesting projects once you got some useful and pertinent experience.
TGCOTF-dewey said:
That's a fair point... And I have experienced that. Anyone who has sat in a HAZOP for weeks finds them self praying for the sweet release of unconsciousness
But, it's not that hard to steer your career towards the more interesting projects once you got some useful and pertinent experience.
I would say that it is good for those who like to count down the days to retirement, having achieved very little of substance in their working life.But, it's not that hard to steer your career towards the more interesting projects once you got some useful and pertinent experience.
Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff