Automotive Engineer or Mechanical Engineers in OEMs

[161BMW]

Hi

I am looking for some advice, help or tips on how to get into an OEM as an automotive engineer or mechanical engineer. I want to work for an OEM as i have a passion for cars and the automotive industry and would love to be involved whether that is in design, R&D, testing, handling and dynamics or aftersales potentially if it got me a foot in the door. I also do have an appreciation and love for classic cars too mainly from having owned / driven a classic car as a daily for nearly 10 years.

My previous background is in financial services with a degree in Maths but my passion for cars is too big to just get joy from owning and driving them and i wanted it to be deeper than that and involved in the industry working for an OEM.

Can you explain how you got in such as degree / uni then trajectory etc ?
What are the typical hours like ? What is the corporate culture like ?
Do employers prefer people to be CEng ?
What are the typical pay brackets ?
Do people eventually go into contracting or stay with the OEM but move around in different positions or departments ?
Any tips for getting a summer placement or industrial placement etc ?

Thank you so much in advance.

Edited by 161BMW on Sunday 14th August 16:38

Edited by 161BMW on Sunday 14th August 16:38

[Fusion777]

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Made a thread a while ago answering some of those questions. I'm a manufacturing engineer rather than design, but some of it should still be relevant. Ask away if you've any q's.

[mk2driver]

You might not have to study again - especially if you are willing to join a graduate scheme

Hours are variable but standard days something like 0730-16.30, it does depend where you work

CEng isn’t needed and frankly isn’t that important in this industry (I’m chartered and applying for fellowship but this is a personal ambition)

Salaries again are really variable depending on where you are working and specialism but broadly starting out anywhere between 30-40k, lead engineer role 40-50k, management then is higher

[161BMW]

Thanks. How long typically out of interest does it take to go from graduate to lead engineer ?

I did look at doing a postgrad at Cranfield in Automotive Engineering (MSc) as it is highly regarded and goes through most of the topics in the road car industry although not so much in aerodynamics. However, i did not think i could learn engineering in 1 year as well as someone who spent 4 years doing it in a MEng. I am currently a mature student doing Mech Eng (MEng) at one of the top engineering schools in UK. I successfully passed the first year with a good grade and did alright. Would love to do a summer placement or industrial placement in an OEM to find out more about what it is like and get the foot in the door and would help towards graduate roles.

[K is King]

Also consider that the majority of the engineering isn’t actually done by the OEM. (styling being an obvious exception). All of the components are engineered by the tier suppliers against OEM standards.

I have been in the Tier 1 business for 20 years now. I worked my way up from what was essentially an entry level engineering role to learn the product (after graduating in Automotive Engineering) and am now in global management.

However these days it seems any Tom Dick or Harry is made a ‘lead engineer’ with little to no knowledge of the product they are responsible for. This is mostly due to a severe lack of people with the required skills and an ever increasing work load in my particular field.

I would agree chartered status is over rated these days and there is little need in the automotive world.

Oh and the money is certainly better in the tier supply base!

Contracting was once an absolute gravy train but it’s no longer as lucrative as it was. IR35, COVID and the semi conductor shortage but stop to that.

One thing I would say from a personal perspective is that once you work in the industry you soon realise how badly engineered cars are and how, irrespective of the OEM badge or sales price they are all fundamentally the same, with the same parts designed & manufactured by the same tier suppliers all assembled together in the same way.

It took the ‘shine’ off cars for me…

Edited by K is King on Sunday 14th August 17:49

Edited by K is King on Sunday 14th August 17:51

Edited by K is King on Sunday 14th August 17:53

[MG CHRIS]

If you have a passion for cars one sure way of killing that is by joining the motor trade. After 13 years in the industry last thing I want to do is play with cars on the weekend. It's not an easy industry or as well paying as you think also long hours.

[Largechris]

All the above really. You aren’t going to be designing cars as such at an OEM, or at a tier one for that matter. Maybe a door handle or an air vent. Not trying to put you off, but a love of classic cars isn’t going to help your enjoyment of working at a big employer.

Maybe investigate a much smaller company, I saw something about Gordon Murray recruiting recently.

[Ryan_T]

To echo what others have said, it may / may not not be as you expect. I personally wouldn’t do any further study for that reason, but join a grad scheme with your maths degree, through that you’ll do several placements around the organisation in different disciplines which’ll tell you if it’s for you or not and you can decide to take on further education if you want too and if you think it’ll pay off. I’d imagine as a ‘mature’ entrant, lead engineer should be achievable 3-5 years off the grad scheme?

[161BMW]

Ryan_T said:

To echo what others have said, it may / may not not be as you expect. I personally wouldn’t do any further study for that reason, but join a grad scheme with your maths degree, through that you’ll do several placements around the organisation in different disciplines which’ll tell you if it’s for you or not and you can decide to take on further education if you want too and if you think it’ll pay off. I’d imagine as a ‘mature’ entrant, lead engineer should be achievable 3-5 years off the grad scheme?

how can i possibly be a lead engineer with a maths degree ? They are seperate disciplines.

Thing is if i left Mech Eng now i wouldnt be able to get a place back there.
Also even with maths degree it is still tough to get a place on graduate scheme. May not even be eligible because graduated 15 years ago. I always fancied being an engineer designing parts on road cars or maybe in R&D or being in vehicle evaluation. Going back to school has been tough. Work load was high in first year. However, got through with decent grades despite being oldest in the cohort by a big margin. Would love to go Germany and work for an OEM but maybe i am being too ambitious.

[Fusion777]

161BMW said:

how can i possibly be a lead engineer with a maths degree ? They are seperate disciplines.

Engineers come from all sorts of backgrounds. Some have maths degrees, some physics, some engineering, some have come the apprentice route.

[blank]

If you have a maths degree already don't bother with any further degree level stuff.

Just apply for some engineer roles. Don't bother with grad schemes.

I work in the testing side and we have quite a few engineers without the traditional automotive/mechanical engineering degrees

Where do you want to work geographically? The West Midlands is the main area (JLR, Aston etc) but the Oxford to Cambridge belt also has a few options.


Also don't get too hung up on working for an OEM. Lots of roles are incredibly specific and therefore boring. Suppliers and "partner" type companies will give you a much more varied and interesting life!

Edited by blank on Saturday 27th August 22:17

[Pit Pony]

161BMW said:

Thanks. How long typically out of interest does it take to go from graduate to lead engineer ?

I did look at doing a postgrad at Cranfield in Automotive Engineering (MSc) as it is highly regarded and goes through most of the topics in the road car industry although not so much in aerodynamics. However, i did not think i could learn engineering in 1 year as well as someone who spent 4 years doing it in a MEng. I am currently a mature student doing Mech Eng (MEng) at one of the top engineering schools in UK. I successfully passed the first year with a good grade and did alright. Would love to do a summer placement or industrial placement in an OEM to find out more about what it is like and get the foot in the door and would help towards graduate roles.

Might I ask why you want to do this ? Automotive does not pay enough. The money in Engineering, is in Aerospace, defence and nuclear.

I went to a Polytechnic in.the West Midlands in.the 1980s, BEng(Hons) in production engineering, chartered in 1996 but it was 2009 before I earnt enough to.not worry every month.
Currently working in.the Hydraulics Manufacturing world, as a 6 sigma black belt and change champion.
The pay is okay, but not as good as when I spent 12 years contractng..

[blank]

The automotive engineering industry is not about pay.

It's about doing something actually enjoyable while still being paid a reasonable amount. I've been paid to do all sorts of things that I would happily do for free in my spare time, in fact many people would pay money to do them!

I have no interest in aviation (although there is some crossover with auto so it may not be too bad), nuclear etc. So if it was just about money I'd probably move to something finance based and get out of engineering altogether.

[mk2driver]

161BMW said:

how can i possibly be a lead engineer with a maths degree ? They are seperate disciplines.

Thing is if i left Mech Eng now i wouldnt be able to get a place back there.
Also even with maths degree it is still tough to get a place on graduate scheme. May not even be eligible because graduated 15 years ago. I always fancied being an engineer designing parts on road cars or maybe in R&D or being in vehicle evaluation. Going back to school has been tough. Work load was high in first year. However, got through with decent grades despite being oldest in the cohort by a big margin. Would love to go Germany and work for an OEM but maybe i am being too ambitious.

By applying yourself well and proving your capability - there are loads of lead engineers in automotive who don’t have an engineering degree

However I will say this - your attitude in this post would be a red flag to me rather than your degree. I’m saying this as a senior manager in an OEM who funnily enough has just taken a Maths graduate into my team

Edited by mk2driver on Monday 29th August 07:11

[161BMW]

mk2driver said:

161BMW said:

how can i possibly be a lead engineer with a maths degree ? They are seperate disciplines.

Thing is if i left Mech Eng now i wouldnt be able to get a place back there.
Also even with maths degree it is still tough to get a place on graduate scheme. May not even be eligible because graduated 15 years ago. I always fancied being an engineer designing parts on road cars or maybe in R&D or being in vehicle evaluation. Going back to school has been tough. Work load was high in first year. However, got through with decent grades despite being oldest in the cohort by a big margin. Would love to go Germany and work for an OEM but maybe i am being too ambitious.

By applying yourself well and proving your capability - there are loads of lead engineers in automotive who don’t have an engineering degree

However I will say this - your attitude in this post would be a red flag to me rather than your degree. I’m saying this as a senior manager in an OEM who funnily enough has just taken a Maths graduate into my team

Edited by mk2driver on Monday 29th August 07:11

What i meant in this post was that my understanding to be a Mechanical Engineer and CEng by IMechE is to either have MEng or BEng + MSc or possibly time-served or equivelent verified training. While the word "Engineer" is not protected in the UK so anyone can call themselves one where as "Chartered Engineer" is. Going in with a Maths degree, maybe the job title would be " xxxx Engineer" but i think i would be quite limited in the roles i could apply for in Automotive where as with Mech Eng you could work in a variety of roles and have the skills and knowledge to do this. With maths i would be surprised if i could actually work in actual design.

With respect to CEng while it importance as mentioned by some posters is less so in UK it may help if you wanted to work abroad etc or even in the UK as demonstrates you have met The Engineering Council requirements of 4 yrs education and 4 yrs work experience of actual engineering which is peer reviewed etc.

Also what was the issue to you with the post you quoted ?

Thanks.

[161BMW]

blank said:

If you have a maths degree already don't bother with any further degree level stuff.

Just apply for some engineer roles. Don't bother with grad schemes.

I work in the testing side and we have quite a few engineers without the traditional automotive/mechanical engineering degrees

Where do you want to work geographically? The West Midlands is the main area (JLR, Aston etc) but the Oxford to Cambridge belt also has a few options.


Also don't get too hung up on working for an OEM. Lots of roles are incredibly specific and therefore boring. Suppliers and "partner" type companies will give you a much more varied and interesting life!

Edited by blank on Saturday 27th August 22:17

Hi I would mostly likely be in West Midlands, Oxfordshire, Surrey, Hampshire, Chicester those regions for automotive. From looking at people's profiles some i have seen alot tend to stay with the OEMs or stay with an OEM but move through the ranks.

[161BMW]

Pit Pony said:

161BMW said:

Thanks. How long typically out of interest does it take to go from graduate to lead engineer ?

I did look at doing a postgrad at Cranfield in Automotive Engineering (MSc) as it is highly regarded and goes through most of the topics in the road car industry although not so much in aerodynamics. However, i did not think i could learn engineering in 1 year as well as someone who spent 4 years doing it in a MEng. I am currently a mature student doing Mech Eng (MEng) at one of the top engineering schools in UK. I successfully passed the first year with a good grade and did alright. Would love to do a summer placement or industrial placement in an OEM to find out more about what it is like and get the foot in the door and would help towards graduate roles.

Might I ask why you want to do this ? Automotive does not pay enough. The money in Engineering, is in Aerospace, defence and nuclear.

I went to a Polytechnic in.the West Midlands in.the 1980s, BEng(Hons) in production engineering, chartered in 1996 but it was 2009 before I earnt enough to.not worry every month.
Currently working in.the Hydraulics Manufacturing world, as a 6 sigma black belt and change champion.
The pay is okay, but not as good as when I spent 12 years contractng..

I have always loved cars and been fascinated by how they work and want to be in the industry. Like someone else said it is an industry where you can do something fulfilling and rewarding yet be paid a decent amount to live on. If i was just after money then i would not even attempt to change career to this.

[mk2driver]

161BMW said:

What i meant in this post was that my understanding to be a Mechanical Engineer and CEng by IMechE is to either have MEng or BEng + MSc or possibly time-served or equivelent verified training. While the word "Engineer" is not protected in the UK so anyone can call themselves one where as "Chartered Engineer" is. Going in with a Maths degree, maybe the job title would be " xxxx Engineer" but i think i would be quite limited in the roles i could apply for in Automotive where as with Mech Eng you could work in a variety of roles and have the skills and knowledge to do this. With maths i would be surprised if i could actually work in actual design.

With respect to CEng while it importance as mentioned by some posters is less so in UK it may help if you wanted to work abroad etc or even in the UK as demonstrates you have met The Engineering Council requirements of 4 yrs education and 4 yrs work experience of actual engineering which is peer reviewed etc.

Also what was the issue to you with the post you quoted ?

Thanks.

Yes to be chartered by the IMechE you require an accredited masters degree and relevant professional experience or accredited bachelors and masters level learning plus experience

However I do feel you are putting chartership and career progression together and in automotive they are simply not linked

I have been promoted 4 times in my 9 year OEM career and not one of those have involved a discussion about chartership

What is wrong with your last post and this one I’d your dismissive attitude and ability to find problems not solutions

I’m an experienced mechanical engineer in an OEM as are others on this thread who have pretty much all told you you are better off entering the industry with your Maths degree and applying yourself but you dismiss us and proceed with your opinion

When I hire internally I don’t even look what degree people have and externally I simply look to see if it is relevant and I consider any science/Maths/engineering degree ok

In my team at the moment I have by degree physicists, mathematicians, computer scientists, mechanical engineers, electric engineers, chemical engineers, manufacturing engineers and multiple people with no degree at all but real practical experience in manufacturing or vehicle repair

We are all within an automotive OEM focused on improving the quality of our products

Before this I worked in a design and development department with almost exactly the same variety of skills as above and it’s all the better for it

Edited by mk2driver on Monday 29th August 17:27

Edited by mk2driver on Monday 29th August 17:28

[blank]

mk2driver said:

161BMW said:

What i meant in this post was that my understanding to be a Mechanical Engineer and CEng by IMechE is to either have MEng or BEng + MSc or possibly time-served or equivelent verified training. While the word "Engineer" is not protected in the UK so anyone can call themselves one where as "Chartered Engineer" is. Going in with a Maths degree, maybe the job title would be " xxxx Engineer" but i think i would be quite limited in the roles i could apply for in Automotive where as with Mech Eng you could work in a variety of roles and have the skills and knowledge to do this. With maths i would be surprised if i could actually work in actual design.

With respect to CEng while it importance as mentioned by some posters is less so in UK it may help if you wanted to work abroad etc or even in the UK as demonstrates you have met The Engineering Council requirements of 4 yrs education and 4 yrs work experience of actual engineering which is peer reviewed etc.

Also what was the issue to you with the post you quoted ?

Thanks.

Yes to be chartered by the IMechE you require an accredited masters degree and relevant professional experience or accredited bachelors and masters level learning plus experience

However I do feel you are putting chartership and career progression together and in automotive they are simply not linked

I have been promised 4 times in my 9 year OEM career and not one of those have involved a discussion about chartership

What is wrong with your last post and this one I’d your dismissive attitude and ability to find problems not solutions

I’m an experienced mechanical engineer in an OEM as are others on this thread who have pretty much all told you you are better off entering the industry with your Maths degree and applying yourself but you dismiss us and proceed with your opinion

When I hire internally I don’t even look what degree people have and externally I simply look to see if it is relevant and I consider any science/Maths/engineering degree ok

In my team at the moment I have by degree physicists, mathematicians, computer scientists, mechanical engineers, electric engineers, chemical engineers, manufacturing engineers and multiple people with no degree at all but real practical experience in manufacturing or vehicle repair

We all with at an automotive OEM focused on improving the quality of our products

Before this I worked in a design and development department with almost exactly the same variety of skills as above and it’s all the better for it

Agree with all this.

I'm not with an OEM (although have done stints) but I am a "group" manager at an OEM supplier and it's pretty much the same for me. A maths grad with a keen interest in cars would be better for me than a mech eng grad without. Maths is probably an advantage for any roles that might involve data processing and analysis.

I'm chartered but no-one cares in automotive. I did it because the company pay / paid for it.
We ocassionally roll out lists of chartered engineers to prove we have SQEP and that's about it.

Have you actually tried applying anywhere yet? Unless your CV was somehow terrible then a petrol head maths grad looking for a career change from finance would definitely get a telephone interview for anything "engineer" level. Probably not senior or principal.

[GroundEffect]

I've got 11 years of experience now at a large OEM as an engineer.

Studied Mechanical Engineering BEng (Hons). Studied Aerospace Engineering PGDip. Now CEng MIMechE.

What are the typical hours like ? What is the corporate culture like ?

It's more about what you make of it. Some roles will be really hard work, with a huge amount of exposure and stress, and some you'll be twiddling your thumbs. Typical large corporate inefficiency. I work in EV design and as you can imagine, it's hectic, especially as I am now a subject matter expert - your attention is pulled 400 different ways. I typically do 10 hours over my 37.5 a week. Some are paid. It's not an easy life, generally.

Do employers prefer people to be CEng ?

They don't care. I did it for myself.

What are the typical pay brackets ?

Depends on location, and seniority. You can get up to around £60k before being management if you're well placed.

Do people eventually go into contracting or stay with the OEM but move around in different positions or departments ?

I've worked in 4 different departments. Started out as a contractor but wanted permie.

Any tips for getting a summer placement or industrial placement etc ?

No idea.

Honestly, the care for cars isn't the important thing - it's more about your attention to detail, your ability to communicate and ability to handle A LOT of tasks at once. If anything, working in the automotive industry can destroy a love of cars. Yes, I get to work on things that won't be seen by customers for up to 5 years, but it's really stressful and distant from the actual product for several years.