16 year old gardener, legal position?

[Enut]

We have a gardener who has done half a day a week for us for the last few years, sadly last week he had a heart attack and will probably be out of action for a few months (luckily I was there when it happened and after CPR and paramedics arriving really quickly and a few attempts at shocking him he is now in hospital, doing well and awaiting surgery hopefully later today.)

Anyway we have advertised for a temporary gardener for a few weeks and have been contacted by a 16 year old who is happy to work (makes a change!) However I am concerned about him using power tools etc (strimmers, mowers, possibly even chainsaws, although unlikely). It never bothered me with our normal gardener as he knows what he's doing, but would I have any additional things to worry about with a youngster? Would we be liable for any injuries whilst he's working here.

For clarification he would be self employed.

Thanks in anticipation.

[Eric Mc]

I think the expression "loco parentis" might apply.

[The Leaper]

Just a comment.

We've recently hired a labourer/gardener for the first time. He has told us he cannot start until September because he's getting his website, liability insurances etc into place before he can start his work. Seems reasonable, and we assume we don't need any special insurance to cover anything should it occur at our premises.

R.

[Far Cough]

If he is self employed and starting his own business who you are then using , surely it's upto the new company to have satisfactory qualifications and insurance in place.

Different story if it's a mates son who is doing you a favour for cash.

[lrdisco]

Do not allow him to use any power tools on your property unless you are competent to supervise him.
You may be held criminally responsible for him if he hurts himself.

[Enut]

Thanks all, I think we'll give him a miss then. It's a shame as it's quite rare to find 16 year olds willing to work!

[sjc]

You’re not going to give the lad a chance based on 3 opinions on the internet ??
Why not speak to him,assess him,give him a trial day,find out who’s equipment he’ll be using etc etc ?

[Enut]

sjc said:

You’re not going to give the lad a chance based on 3 opinions on the internet ??
Why not speak to him,assess him,give him a trial day,find out who’s equipment he’ll be using etc etc ?

No based on the chance that those opinions might be right and we'd open ourselves up to a huge amount of potential liability, it also turns out he would need to get a train here and walk from the station (about a mile) or we'd need to taxi him around. Too much hassle for a part time, temporary, job I'm afraid.

[Eric Mc]

There is nothing to stop a 16 year old running his own self employed business. However, if you are going to engage him, just ensure that he is legitimately set up (registered with HMRC etc) and has his own business insurance in place.

The days of letting a youngster do the odd small job about the house are probably over. I think the scouts get some sort of exemption for their "Bob a Job" week - if it still happens.

And youngsters still do baby sitting, don't they?

[R56Cooper]

Hi OP sounds like you've made your mind up and I have to say, I totally agree with you and think that the right decision is to find someone else.

One adverse scenario is that he lops a few fingers off and has a permanent disability. You then face an occupier's liability claim, potentially also an employer's liability claim. The label "self-employed" won't prevent a lawyer arguing that he was actually engaged under a contract of employment as he would likely be working under a very high degree of control and supervision.

As your home insurance policy is unlikely to cover such claims, it would fall to you personally and any claim is against your personal assets.

As always, it might be all fine but I have dealt with many similar scenarios where all was perfectly well until suddenly something happens that turns everyone's world upside down, best well avoided.

[Eric Mc]

Curiosity got the better of me regarding my comment on the Scouts' "bob-a-job" week so I did a bit of on-line research.

In its original form, it came to an end in 1992 amid fears of health and safety and other risks associated with young boys knocking on total strangers' front doors offering to do work in and around the house.

A modified version is now in place where scouts do volunteer work in the community - usually for legitimate employers of some sort. I have seen them at my local supermarket helping people fill their grocery bags at supermarket checkouts, for example.

[Driveeasy]

Eric Mc said:

I think the expression "loco parentis" might apply.

I’m no legal expert but doesn’t that apply to education establishments and not people who have contracted works completed by self employed people who are allowed to be self employed and work with an NI number at 16?

[Eric Mc]

I wouldn’t know for sure my expectation is that matters could be interpreted that way by a court if there was evidence of recklessness or carelessness by the person who hired the individual.