Any PH lawyers working on a Saturday? :D

Any PH lawyers working on a Saturday? :D

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V8mate

Original Poster:

45,899 posts

196 months

Saturday 2nd July 2022
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(Typically, the day I need them, my two employment lawyer friends are both on holiday abroad!)

A company is defending a civil case which will be heard in the High Court next week.
An employee of that company has been told to appear as a witness to their defence.

He doesn't want to go as:
1. He is currently signed off sick with stress and other mental health related issues; and
2. To defend his employer, he will have to be 'economical with the truth'. i.e. he believes the claimant is in the right.

He told his employer yesterday that he does not want to attend court. They have told him that he has to, and that they will issue a summons if he does not.

Is this right? Can an employee (or, indeed, anyone) be forced to appear as a witness to the defence in a civil matter?

I know in criminal cases you can be summonsed, but that's because the Crown is one of the parties.

Austin_Metro

1,309 posts

55 months

Saturday 2nd July 2022
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The short answer is if he gets a summons he must attend.

If he tells his employer (that is issuing the summons, I understand) what he is going to say then it seems unlikely they would continue.

Presumably he was asked to provide a witness statement and didn’t? Or did he give one in support and now doesn’t want to attend / give that same evidence?


V8mate

Original Poster:

45,899 posts

196 months

Saturday 2nd July 2022
quotequote all
Austin_Metro said:
The short answer is if he gets a summons he must attend.

If he tells his employer (that is issuing the summons, I understand) what he is going to say then it seems unlikely they would continue.

Presumably he was asked to provide a witness statement and didn’t? Or did he give one in support and now doesn’t want to attend / give that same evidence?
He has provided a witness statement, yes. Has jumped through all the preparatory hoops with counsel etc. But is reluctant to have that evidence tested in court.

Does being signed off sick carry no weight?

Mr Pointy

11,855 posts

166 months

Saturday 2nd July 2022
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V8mate said:
He has provided a witness statement, yes. Has jumped through all the preparatory hoops with counsel etc. But is reluctant to have that evidence tested in court.

Does being signed off sick carry no weight?
Are you saying his Witness Statement was not the truth, the whole truth & nothing but the truth?

V8mate

Original Poster:

45,899 posts

196 months

Saturday 2nd July 2022
quotequote all
Mr Pointy said:
Are you saying his Witness Statement was not the truth, the whole truth & nothing but the truth?
I don't know. I haven't been involved and I don't work for that company. Very much just a mate trying to help a mate.

I guess all I needed to have asked was: can you be compelled to attend a civil hearing?

Seems outrageous that you can be forced to take part in a private dispute.

CooperS

4,542 posts

226 months

Saturday 2nd July 2022
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So they have been economical with what's happened to appease the company that provides them an income but now don't want to be tested on it in front of others for fear of the whole truth coming out.

Think it's a little to late - are they now at this point all in with the offending company.




Monkeylegend

27,213 posts

238 months

Saturday 2nd July 2022
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Sounds like he is going to get caught out with a less than truthful witness statement.

Jasandjules

70,505 posts

236 months

Saturday 2nd July 2022
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Yes he can be compelled to attend. However at some stage he will be asked if he stands by the evidence and/or is there anything he needs to change. He can then do so......

V8mate

Original Poster:

45,899 posts

196 months

Saturday 2nd July 2022
quotequote all
Jasandjules said:
Yes he can be compelled to attend. However at some stage he will be asked if he stands by the evidence and/or is there anything he needs to change. He can then do so......
Thank you.

Austin_Metro

1,309 posts

55 months

Saturday 2nd July 2022
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I’ve had a quick look and can’t see anything in the CPR that provides an exception for illness of the witness.

However, I would take a careful look at the summons and see if there is any information on non attendance.

Non attendance is serious - county court it’s a fine - high court it could be worse - so your mate would be wise to have medical evidence to justify his non attendance and should share that with the court and his company.

anonymous-user

61 months

Saturday 2nd July 2022
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Jasandjules said:
Yes he can be compelled to attend. However at some stage he will be asked if he stands by the evidence and/or is there anything he needs to change. He can then do so......
Quite.

If he decides to explain that his witness statement is not accurate in material aspects and that he wishes to correct it, he should give some thought to what his answer to the question “why?” is.

Voluntarily making a false witness statement is a different kettle of fish to being persuaded to do so, but either way he is likely to take some flak for having signed something he knew to be false.

Funky Squirrel

390 posts

79 months

Saturday 2nd July 2022
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Could he attend and do a 'I cannot recall' in the court? Would that be a get out for him?

V8mate

Original Poster:

45,899 posts

196 months

Saturday 2nd July 2022
quotequote all
Austin_Metro said:
I’ve had a quick look and can’t see anything in the CPR that provides an exception for illness of the witness.

However, I would take a careful look at the summons and see if there is any information on non attendance.

Non attendance is serious - county court it’s a fine - high court it could be worse - so your mate would be wise to have medical evidence to justify his non attendance and should share that with the court and his company.
Thanks for looking; appreciate it.

I think a summons needs to be arranged at least 7 days in advance of the appearance, which leaves insufficient time for that.

I've been trying to get him to stop over-thinking it and just get it done. I think the generally bad place he's in is negatively influencing his view of the proceedings. His employer's counsel has certainly influenced what did and didn't appear in witness statements, but I still think there's a way he can avoid displeasing his employer without perjuring himself.

V8mate

Original Poster:

45,899 posts

196 months

Saturday 2nd July 2022
quotequote all
BlackWidow13 said:
Quite.

If he decides to explain that his witness statement is not accurate in material aspects and that he wishes to correct it, he should give some thought to what his answer to the question “why?” is.

Voluntarily making a false witness statement is a different kettle of fish to being persuaded to do so, but either way he is likely to take some flak for having signed something he knew to be false.
He hasn't made any false statements. Just a lawyer-led version which suits his employer. He's rightly nervous about being cross-examined as he feels that his employer behaved badly towards the other company.

Collectingbrass

2,393 posts

202 months

Saturday 2nd July 2022
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V8mate said:
BlackWidow13 said:
Quite.

If he decides to explain that his witness statement is not accurate in material aspects and that he wishes to correct it, he should give some thought to what his answer to the question “why?” is.

Voluntarily making a false witness statement is a different kettle of fish to being persuaded to do so, but either way he is likely to take some flak for having signed something he knew to be false.
He hasn't made any false statements. Just a lawyer-led version which suits his employer. He's rightly nervous about being cross-examined as he feels that his employer behaved badly towards the other company.
Witnesses are there to help the court deicde the case. One side or other may call them because they think the witness makes their case stronger, but that's immaterial. He needs to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but etc, perjury is treated v harshly for a reason. He also needs to consider hsi actions if (when? they don't sound too tasteful...) his employer make him a scape goat internally. Time to document everything and polish his CV - hard to get a new job from jail for perjury though...

surveyor

18,143 posts

191 months

Sunday 3rd July 2022
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Having had some witness of fact training in the last few weeks, then my own advice would be, to tell the truth and not tell the story.

As part of the training, we were given a scenario to learn, where obviously you had to have a 'story' as it was not our scenario. It was quickly demonstrated in a number of ways how a barrister can make mince meat out of you.