Vocational licence suspended

Author
Discussion

Tyre Smoke

Original Poster:

23,018 posts

268 months

Thursday 30th June 2022
quotequote all
I have a moral and financial dilemma.

One of my drivers has been diagnosed with T2 diabetes. As a side effect they are suffering from intermittent blurred vision. They have been signed off work for a number of weeks by their GP.

As a taxi driver, they are obliged by their licence conditions to inform the local authority. Generally what happens is they suspend their badge until they are fit to drive again (if ever).

This driver is employed by my business, full PAYE, pension, sick pay, the whole nine yards. They have been employed by us for 11 months. Currently they are being paid sick pay.

My question is, what happens if their licence is suspended? Do I keep a driver on sick pay indefinitely when they are unable to drive - obviously critical to their job? What if they are never passed fit to drive again, or for months and months?

Obviously I want to do the right thing, but I have no other jobs they can do, and I can't keep a non driver on as a driver. What are my options?

Neddy Sea Goon

240 posts

55 months

Thursday 30th June 2022
quotequote all
Don't sweat this

Statutory Sick Pay, then claim back from Government

Whilst you want to be a good boss/person, your company probably can't support a non-productive member of staff

If you're feeling benevolent, have him in the yard washing cars for a bit

Sounds harsh, but you have to keep the business running

Tyre Smoke

Original Poster:

23,018 posts

268 months

Thursday 30th June 2022
quotequote all
Yes but SSP only lasts 26 weeks. Plus during that time they will be racking up holiday entitlement. Like I said, I want to do the right thing, but we are a small business and every financial drain needs examining in fine detail right now.

Alex Z

1,513 posts

83 months

Thursday 30th June 2022
quotequote all
What is their contractual entitlement to sick pay?
Normally it would specify a certain number of weeks on full or part pay before dropping to Statutory Sick Pay, so you either stick to that or exceed it if you can and want to.

If it’s not specified then that’s a mistake, and you’ll need to decide what to do, but be careful paying less than what has been customarily done for other workers.

As an alternative, is there another role they can cover while unable to drive? It might not be ideal but is better than getting no work done.

wildoliver

8,996 posts

223 months

Thursday 30th June 2022
quotequote all
Pretty much as above really. In my past life this was a fairly common issue with staff, hopefully you have a proper contract in place which details sick pay.

A usual sick pay scheme for a good company is full pay for a while dropping down to SSP either gradually or in steps and quickly or slowly. Sometimes first few days off sick not paid.

What pretty much no company has in place though is a permanent sick pay. It's also quite common for full benefits like this not to come in to play for a while after employment, 11 months you say, that suggests full benefits either from start or after 3/6 months. That's quite quick. Presumably they are still in probationary period........

I'm drawing a lot of conclusions here, but from the questions your asking I suspect you aren't that clued up on employment law and there may not be a contract in place. Taking advice from on here leaves you open to future issues too, my advice for instance is based on experience but also subject to memory lapses as it was a few years back.

A few quid spent with an employment specialist to produce proper contracts and put an employment handbook together with probationary periods, sick/holiday/maternity etc. All laid out clearly as well as disciplinary procedures can save you a lot of money if it all goes wrong. Plus staff know what their responsibilities to you are and where the boundaries are.

Tyre Smoke

Original Poster:

23,018 posts

268 months

Thursday 30th June 2022
quotequote all
There is a contract in place. We don't pay sick pay other than SSP which is clear in the contract. Hours of work, notice periods, holiday entitlement, etc are all comprehensively covered.

I'm asking the question because it's unfamiliar territory for me. I've laid out the facts as they are, but there is no other work for them to do. Since Covid we have cut back on staff. Natural wastage, staff left and we have not replaced them unless we have no choice.

edc

9,315 posts

258 months

Thursday 30th June 2022
quotequote all
There are specific reasons for a valid dismissal. It sounds like this situation could fit the capability route or the statutory illegality route or last resort some other substantial reason.

Tyre Smoke

Original Poster:

23,018 posts

268 months

Thursday 30th June 2022
quotequote all
That's the crux of it I suppose. If the driver is off for a substantial period of time, then there has to come a point where we part company. Just when and how do you define that point?

MickC

1,041 posts

265 months

Thursday 30th June 2022
quotequote all
Tyre Smoke said:
That's the crux of it I suppose. If the driver is off for a substantial period of time, then there has to come a point where we part company. Just when and how do you define that point?
I guess you need a conversation with him about how his Diabetes is being treated. If he's just been diagnosed, then its likely that the blurred vision is caused by temporary high sugar levels and that any treatment, either diet or tablets, will sort out blurred vision quite quickly, and keep it controlled. Type 2 is not like Type 1 where there is a risk of hypo's and blackouts during driving, but obviously there will be different rules for professional drivers than normal driving, where Type 2 would not stop you driving at all unless symptoms become very serious. If he's had type 2 for a while and its retinopathy causing the sight loss, then that's more long term/permanent but there are treatments available for that too.

If you have 26 weeks of SSP, I'd expect his blurred vision to be sorted well within that, unless he has actually had Type 2 for years and its all coming to a head now. Only him and his Dr would know, and he doesn't have to discuss it with his employer if he doesn't want to, but if he doesn't, then he risks being dismissed on capacity grounds. Presumably DVLA would send him for an eye test to confirm he is ok to drive again once the Dr says he can, that's the procedure for non-professionals who have to stop driving due to diabetes induced retinopathy and have it treated subsequently.

Tyre Smoke

Original Poster:

23,018 posts

268 months

Thursday 30th June 2022
quotequote all
Yes, I'd agree with all that. Thanks for confirming what I was thinking.

They are signed off until August 1st, so we will see what happens then.


OutInTheShed

9,381 posts

33 months

Thursday 30th June 2022
quotequote all
Tyre Smoke said:
That's the crux of it I suppose. If the driver is off for a substantial period of time, then there has to come a point where we part company. Just when and how do you define that point?
When it's clear there is no possibility of him returning to his job?

In the long run, what this former driver needs is a new career compatible with his medical status.
Anything you can do to facilitate that might be good.
Term starts September if there's retraining to be done.

Are you in the FSB or similar, I think they can give good advice?

Tyre Smoke

Original Poster:

23,018 posts

268 months

Thursday 30th June 2022
quotequote all
Was in the FSB a long time ago. Felt it was (and is) a waste of money (local to me anyway).

I have a slight niggle in the back of my mind that they threatened their former employer with a tribunal for unfair dismissal and won a wedge of money in an out of court settlement. Part if me (the cynical part) tells me they are going to milk this for a while while they have a chunk of cash to live off and the weather is nice. The rational side of me says it's costing me very little at the moment, just accrued holiday, so see how it pans out.

OutInTheShed

9,381 posts

33 months

Thursday 30th June 2022
quotequote all
Tyre Smoke said:
Was in the FSB a long time ago. Felt it was (and is) a waste of money (local to me anyway).

I have a slight niggle in the back of my mind that they threatened their former employer with a tribunal for unfair dismissal and won a wedge of money in an out of court settlement. Part if me (the cynical part) tells me they are going to milk this for a while while they have a chunk of cash to live off and the weather is nice. The rational side of me says it's costing me very little at the moment, just accrued holiday, so see how it pans out.
Personally in your position, I'd be very careful, pay for advice even.


Tyre Smoke

Original Poster:

23,018 posts

268 months

Thursday 30th June 2022
quotequote all
Yes, I may well do that.

carinatauk

1,435 posts

259 months

Thursday 30th June 2022
quotequote all
It is very wise to be cautious regarding this, as you are, and really sensible to get proper advice.

My understanding is that diabetes is termed as a "unseen disability" under the Equality Act. It has been tested in Employment Tribunal and Employment Appeal Tribunal, however I am sure that there are many nuances to those tests.

Alex Z

1,513 posts

83 months

Thursday 30th June 2022
quotequote all
Tyre Smoke said:
That's the crux of it I suppose. If the driver is off for a substantial period of time, then there has to come a point where we part company. Just when and how do you define that point?
By taking legal advice from HR professionals. It’s the safest way to avoid an expensive tribunal.
It does sound like there’s a good chance he’ll be back to normal before it gets to that point though.

Tyre Smoke

Original Poster:

23,018 posts

268 months

Thursday 30th June 2022
quotequote all
I sincerely hope so.

Although I haven't mentioned what gender the driver is. wink

Sy1441

1,204 posts

167 months

Monday 4th July 2022
quotequote all
I'd like to think that if you're employing people as drivers part of their employment contract would cover that they must have a valid driving licence?

Tyre Smoke

Original Poster:

23,018 posts

268 months

Monday 4th July 2022
quotequote all
There is. But that isn't what I was asking.