Negotiating a probationary period

[bedonde]

Has anyone done this successfully? Looking over an employment contract for a recent job offer and it comes with a six month probation period, during which they can give me just one week’s notice whereas I have to give them one month. Leaving a secure job (which initially had a 3 month probation period) for another where I have v little security (notwithstanding limited rights within first two yrs) is giving me slight jitters.
Planning on going back to them and asking for it to be reduced to 3 months with a one month notice period. I guess the worst they can do is say no, in which case it’ll be a helpful indicator of how much they want me on board.

[Mogul]

Do they require you to go through a +/- 6 month training program / induction / sign off process?

How will your performance be measured?

There are some jobs when its reasonable for an employer to run with a longer probation period, but if they are proposing something outside of your industry-norms, then you could tell them that its only 3 months at X, at Y and at Z, and ask them why its 6 with them?

[Welshbeef]

As it happens we have long term been 3 months probation but this has increased to 6 months not sure why

[Driver101]

My work was three months, but upped it to six months. There was people not making the grade after three months, but improved with time. Some people were already getting their probation period extended when it was three months. If a firm decision was made at the end of three months then more wouldn't have been kept on.

I don't think a longer probationary period is too bad.

[67Dino]

No harm in asking. Few thoughts on negotiating strategy.

- I would first ask if they have 6 months across all roles in the company or if this one is different? If they have a range, then it gives you a basis for your challenge. If they don’t, then unlikely to budge anyway.

- If they do have a range but won’t change it then you could still challenge the disparity in notice. If they have one week notice to give so should you. Only fair.

- With this established, you could then go back and see if they are more open to compromise on the overall period, as now it would have some benefit to them to then shorten it.

Good luck.

[anonymous-user]

I wouldn’t have an issue with the probation period, but I would with the difference in notice periods.

[V8mate]

67Dino said:

No harm in asking. Few thoughts on negotiating strategy.

- I would first ask if they have 6 months across all roles in the company or if this one is different? If they have a range, then it gives you a basis for your challenge. If they don’t, then unlikely to budge anyway.

- If they do have a range but won’t change it then you could still challenge the disparity in notice. If they have one week notice to give so should you. Only fair.

- With this established, you could then go back and see if they are more open to compromise on the overall period, as now it would have some benefit to them to then shorten it.

Good luck.

A candidate I offered a job to throwing that lot at me before starting would instantly gain a reputation as 'trouble'.

Unless you have a track record of being a dick, or think that the company is flaky and might need to shed jobs in the short term, the probationary period shouldn't be a source of consternation.

[Welshbeef]

V8mate said:

67Dino said:

No harm in asking. Few thoughts on negotiating strategy.

- I would first ask if they have 6 months across all roles in the company or if this one is different? If they have a range, then it gives you a basis for your challenge. If they don’t, then unlikely to budge anyway.

- If they do have a range but won’t change it then you could still challenge the disparity in notice. If they have one week notice to give so should you. Only fair.

- With this established, you could then go back and see if they are more open to compromise on the overall period, as now it would have some benefit to them to then shorten it.

Good luck.

A candidate I offered a job to throwing that lot at me before starting would instantly gain a reputation as 'trouble'.

Unless you have a track record of being a dick, or think that the company is flaky and might need to shed jobs in the short term, the probationary period shouldn't be a source of consternation.

Well a reason for concern would be mortgage application/remortgaging I’m not sure it’s so easy if you are in probationary periods. Might be wrong but the risk is max 1 weeks notice v 1/3/6/9/12 months paid notice

[bedonde]

V8mate said:

A candidate I offered a job to throwing that lot at me before starting would instantly gain a reputation as 'trouble'.

Unless you have a track record of being a dick, or think that the company is flaky and might need to shed jobs in the short term, the probationary period shouldn't be a source of consternation.

Thanks for the replies.

V8Mate - not sure I have a track record of being a 'dick', but this is the only opportunity I have to possibly negotiate and push back any terms which are tipped too heavily in favour of the company. I think equality of notice period during probation is a fair thing to ask for without being seen as 'trouble'. It's more about doing dome due diligence about what I'm signing up for.

[bucksmanuk]

garyhun said:

I wouldn’t have an issue with the probation period, but I would with the difference in notice periods.

I'll second this point

[Previous]

bucksmanuk said:

I'll second this point

I'll third it.

6 months is fairly common.

[Welshbeef]

bedonde said:

V8mate said:

A candidate I offered a job to throwing that lot at me before starting would instantly gain a reputation as 'trouble'.

Unless you have a track record of being a dick, or think that the company is flaky and might need to shed jobs in the short term, the probationary period shouldn't be a source of consternation.

Thanks for the replies.

V8Mate - not sure I have a track record of being a 'dick', but this is the only opportunity I have to possibly negotiate and push back any terms which are tipped too heavily in favour of the company. I think equality of notice period during probation is a fair thing to ask for without being seen as 'trouble'. It's more about doing dome due diligence about what I'm signing up for.

You will not see bespoke terms - for say probation period it is a company standard.

Remember it is you applying to them for a role not them headhunting you.

[bedonde]

67Dino said:

No harm in asking. Few thoughts on negotiating strategy.

- I would first ask if they have 6 months across all roles in the company or if this one is different? If they have a range, then it gives you a basis for your challenge. If they don’t, then unlikely to budge anyway.

- If they do have a range but won’t change it then you could still challenge the disparity in notice. If they have one week notice to give so should you. Only fair.

- With this established, you could then go back and see if they are more open to compromise on the overall period, as now it would have some benefit to them to then shorten it.

Good luck.

Thanks - I think the most sensible approach is to ask them to equalise notice periods.

[bedonde]

Welshbeef said:

You will not see bespoke terms - for say probation period it is a company standard.

Remember it is you applying to them for a role not them headhunting you.

I've already got some bespoke terms in the contract which aren't standard, so it is entirely possible.

[Welshbeef]

bedonde said:

Welshbeef said:

You will not see bespoke terms - for say probation period it is a company standard.

Remember it is you applying to them for a role not them headhunting you.

I've already got some bespoke terms in the contract which aren't standard, so it is entirely possible.

I’ve just personally never heard of bespoke probationary periods (as in shorter than company standard) IF the individual applies for the role not the other way round.

But probationary period downsides is
Not part of bonus scheme until after it clears
Not part of the pension scheme until after it clears
1 weeks notice

But it is what it is - I’d be wanting to negotiate long term terms ie holiday allowance company pension contribution max bonus % etc

[67Dino]

V8mate said:

67Dino said:

No harm in asking. Few thoughts on negotiating strategy.

- ….
- With this established, you could then go back and see if they are more open to compromise on the overall period, as now it would have some benefit to them to then shorten it.

Good luck.

A candidate I offered a job to throwing that lot at me before starting would instantly gain a reputation as 'trouble'.

Unless you have a track record of being a dick, or think that the company is flaky and might need to shed jobs in the short term, the probationary period shouldn't be a source of consternation.

Think V8mate makes a fair point here. There’s always a balance to be achieved between a perfectly reasonable to and fro to get the terms right - I’d actually have a few doubts about a candidate who got an offer and didn’t question anything at all - and being seen as difficult before you start.

Two further thoughts:

- I didn’t ask, but it there are other terms you are also negotiating, you may not want to lead with this one (it is easier to challenge since it implies you are not 100% confident you’ll make it through probation, vs so good they’ll want to keep you)

- the style in which any questions are raised is critical. All emails/calls should have the feel of working together to get a shared result you both want. After all, they want to hire you, you want to work for them, so there is a shared goal. If it feels adversarial something has gone wrong.

[Scrump]

Welshbeef said:

But probationary period downsides is
Not part of bonus scheme until after it clears
Not part of the pension scheme until after it clears
1 weeks notice

That may be true with your employer but is not true for all employers.

[sociopath]

garyhun said:

I wouldn’t have an issue with the probation period, but I would with the difference in notice periods.

Me too. I've often in the past pushed back to get equivalent notice periods.

If they reject that, then it says a lot about employer/employee balance imho

[Muzzer79]

bucksmanuk said:

garyhun said:

I wouldn’t have an issue with the probation period, but I would with the difference in notice periods.

I'll second this point

Yes, I'm in this camp too.

You have to back yourself to succeed. Changing jobs always carries an element of risk in losing job security, but there are rewards on the flipside.

[R56Cooper]

Previous said:

bucksmanuk said:

I'll second this point

I'll third it.

6 months is fairly common.

Yep, some employers just don't seem to care that these type of notice arrangements leave the employee incredibly exposed. Perfectly legal to do it this way of course but I would certainly look to negotiate.

As ever, all comes down to relative bargaining power and how much they need you. From what I hear in the current recruitment climate good staff are hard to come by.