Employer wants proof of operation for 1 week sick leave
Discussion
My employer has 800 employees and as such it’s a bit bureaucratic but overall a good place to work.
I’ve been with them for three years and have only had four sick days (COVID).
I am on the NHS waiting list for a minor operation in February next year, being proactive I thought I’d put it in our holiday system early so everyone in the team knows well in advance.
This has triggered a response from HR asking for; the name of the operation, the reason it's needed, and a letter from the hospital confirming this.
I’ve found this demand a bit shocking, and while I can provide a copy of my admission letter, I’m a bit disappointed at the tone of the email.
A quick google suggests I don’t need to provide evidence for less than 7 days sick, so while I’m not looking to aggravate them, they’re not actually in a position to ask? Is this the doing of an overzealous HR admin?
For the record, I'm not on any kind of performance review and I've never had a disciplinary etc.
I’ve been with them for three years and have only had four sick days (COVID).
I am on the NHS waiting list for a minor operation in February next year, being proactive I thought I’d put it in our holiday system early so everyone in the team knows well in advance.
This has triggered a response from HR asking for; the name of the operation, the reason it's needed, and a letter from the hospital confirming this.
I’ve found this demand a bit shocking, and while I can provide a copy of my admission letter, I’m a bit disappointed at the tone of the email.
A quick google suggests I don’t need to provide evidence for less than 7 days sick, so while I’m not looking to aggravate them, they’re not actually in a position to ask? Is this the doing of an overzealous HR admin?
For the record, I'm not on any kind of performance review and I've never had a disciplinary etc.
egomeister said:
I have no idea on the legalities or anything like that, but do you think they have reacted this way as it is so far in advance and suspect you've actually booked a holiday?
I'd have no idea where that cynical assumption would come from. I've still got 14 holidays to use this year, then I get 25 on January 1st...Edit to add: this is my first interaction with HR, besides when I joined the company. I have also checked the company handbook and it says fit notes are only needed after 7 days.
Edited by 3xAAA on Sunday 29th May 21:27
3xAAA said:
egomeister said:
I have no idea on the legalities or anything like that, but do you think they have reacted this way as it is so far in advance and suspect you've actually booked a holiday?
I'd have no idea where that cynical assumption would come from. I've still got 14 holidays to use this year, then I get 25 on January 1st...I was only throwing it out there as an idea, it's not something I have had to deal with for years since I freelance - no work no money!
egomeister said:
I have no idea on the legalities or anything like that, but do you think they have reacted this way as it is so far in advance and suspect you've actually booked a holiday?
This. It's clearly nothing you have done, but likely the old chestnut of some people 'spoiling it for everyone else'. They have probably had people taking the piss in the past by booking a week off work claiming a 'hospital appointment' when the reality is they are getting drunk in Zante with their friends, but don't want to use any more holiday allowance to do it.
If it was me, I would show them a copy of the the appointment letter.
yourself to blame in part, a bit optimistic to actually tell your employer a minor op is pencilled in for Feb 2023, this is the NHS, cancellations are very common, why not wait for a definite date ?
my bro-in-law had his hip op cancelled 3 times, then got a call one morning two
weeks ago to say the op was 10 am the next day.
you are right, you can be absent for up to 7 consecutive days without needing a doctor's line.
obviously you should keep your employer informed as to your reason for absence and when
you will return
my bro-in-law had his hip op cancelled 3 times, then got a call one morning two
weeks ago to say the op was 10 am the next day.
you are right, you can be absent for up to 7 consecutive days without needing a doctor's line.
obviously you should keep your employer informed as to your reason for absence and when
you will return
They probably want to know so they can assess krbrefer you to OH if needed for any potential on going absence. Also if it's to treat an existing condition they may be concerned whether the condition limits your woeking ability or have concerns that it's bad enough to have an operation. In any event, if those are the possible concerns a chat or a better worded letter would have been much better.
They need to be careful asking that kind of question as it may be really personal eg a cancer op (a diagnosis of cancer puts the patient in the category of protected disability https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/copi...
And having worked with people with cancer, I know that it would seriously p
s off some patience.
It also suggests that they don't trust you which eats away at that professional relationship.
On a lighter note, I thought they wanted to see the scar.
And having worked with people with cancer, I know that it would seriously p
s off some patience.It also suggests that they don't trust you which eats away at that professional relationship.
On a lighter note, I thought they wanted to see the scar.
I'd not have any particular problem with telling them what it was about and letting them see the appointment letter, plus advise them that the realities of the NHS means it may end up being bumped to another date anyway.
I'd expect them to go away satisfied, if not, well, they can go away dissatisfied instead.
I'd expect them to go away satisfied, if not, well, they can go away dissatisfied instead.
Alex Z said:
Presumably they want to know that it’s not elective surgery that wouldn’t be covered by sick pay, so it seems reasonable to me.
That’s the kind of situation where I wouldn’t just submit the request, but instead have a chat to my manager and give them the heads up.
I did actually speak with my manager, but they haven't communicated anything to HR obviously, or maybe they did! That’s the kind of situation where I wouldn’t just submit the request, but instead have a chat to my manager and give them the heads up.
Also not to be pedantic (this is PH
) but elective surgery can still be necessary, but not urgent. I assume you are referring to cosmetic surgery.Whats on Second said:
yourself to blame in part, a bit optimistic to actually tell your employer a minor op is pencilled in for Feb 2023, this is the NHS, cancellations are very common, why not wait for a definite date ?
my bro-in-law had his hip op cancelled 3 times, then got a call one morning two
weeks ago to say the op was 10 am the next day.
you are right, you can be absent for up to 7 consecutive days without needing a doctor's line.
obviously you should keep your employer informed as to your reason for absence and when
you will return
I have a definitive date, whether or not it gets brought forward or pushed back is another matter. my bro-in-law had his hip op cancelled 3 times, then got a call one morning two
weeks ago to say the op was 10 am the next day.
you are right, you can be absent for up to 7 consecutive days without needing a doctor's line.
obviously you should keep your employer informed as to your reason for absence and when
you will return
OP, personally I find it intrusive and a violation of privacy that HR (i.e. someone trying to be somebody, because let's face it: nobody wakes up one day as a schoolchild and says they want to work in HR when they grow up) is demanding the ins and outs of someone's operation in a manner, as it would appear, to get you to justify your own health.
Obviously, as ever, the old saying "HR is not your friend" applies. They're there to protect the company and not the employee. It could therefore be that they're trying to see if they need to make any reasonable adjustments if need be, or how to 'help' you as an employee so that they don't get into trouble later on if it can be argued that they did not do so.
You shouldn't need to use your annual leave for sick leave either and you can self-certify as being unable to work for a maximum number of days. Thereafter you'd need a medical note.
In this instance, at this stage I would be minded to either get a medical professional to confirm the appointment minus all the juicy private details, or provide the appointment letter but redact the juicy private details.
If it's not good enough for HR then I'd be minded to ask how and why they need any further details, who will see it etc, before you set about giving away personal information to a bunch of jumped-up nobodies who will turn it into gossip and divulge it, whilst all the while pretending to be trustworthy and committed to upholding their duty of confidentiality and safeguarding your privacy.
https://www.gov.uk/taking-sick-leave
Obviously, as ever, the old saying "HR is not your friend" applies. They're there to protect the company and not the employee. It could therefore be that they're trying to see if they need to make any reasonable adjustments if need be, or how to 'help' you as an employee so that they don't get into trouble later on if it can be argued that they did not do so.
You shouldn't need to use your annual leave for sick leave either and you can self-certify as being unable to work for a maximum number of days. Thereafter you'd need a medical note.
In this instance, at this stage I would be minded to either get a medical professional to confirm the appointment minus all the juicy private details, or provide the appointment letter but redact the juicy private details.
If it's not good enough for HR then I'd be minded to ask how and why they need any further details, who will see it etc, before you set about giving away personal information to a bunch of jumped-up nobodies who will turn it into gossip and divulge it, whilst all the while pretending to be trustworthy and committed to upholding their duty of confidentiality and safeguarding your privacy.
https://www.gov.uk/taking-sick-leave
Piersman2 said:
Tell them it's a gender re-assignment operation.
ETA: and to mind their own fecking business!
Whilst it's widely acceptable you can getaway with the deaths of upto 8 grandparents (divorce, eh?), How many times can you use gender reassignment surgery? I reckon three is a fair effort.ETA: and to mind their own fecking business!
Hoofy said:
They need to be careful asking that kind of question as it may be really personal eg a cancer op (a diagnosis of cancer puts the patient in the category of protected disability https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/copi...
And having worked with people with cancer, I know that it would seriously ps off some patience.
It also suggests that they don't trust you which eats away at that professional relationship.
On a lighter note, I thought they wanted to see the scar.
And having worked with people with cancer, I know that it would seriously p
s off some patience.It also suggests that they don't trust you which eats away at that professional relationship.
On a lighter note, I thought they wanted to see the scar.
I was in the hospital walking back down the corridor from 'the canteen' to my late wifes bedside when her manager rang to arrange 'the 3 month review' 
I told him not to worry to much as she would be unlikely to be returning. To be fair it was the 'civil service' so they were more slightly understanding than some of the stories I've heard about the disgraceful treatment of cancer patients in the private sector undergoing treatment where they were expected to be 'back on the production line' the same afternoon as their chemotherapy to keep them alive
lornemalvo said:
4 days sickness in 3 years is outstanding, in my opinion. What a miserable lack of trust and respect. Tell him you'll show him the scars after the op, hopefully when he's having lunch
I didn't think companies counted Covid absences as sick leave. My work doesn't and most people I've spoken to have said similar. I'm curious how there was only four day absent with Covid? If the OP had it or had to isolate it would be longer? Shift pattern?
Ignoring Covid I wouldn't say four days off in three years is outstanding.
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