Weighing up move from private to public sector

[dfm]

I'm writing this to organise my thoughts:

Last summer I interviewed for a couple of civil service roles. One of the ones I didn't get has now become available and there's an offer on the table. I'm struggling to decide whether to make the jump. I have been at my current employer for almost 10 years and in this role for 8. Good employer, lovely team and a very flexible WFH setup. The new job would be the same role but looking at a different subject area in the public sector.

Pros of civil service job
Slight salary bump - just under 10%
Civil service pension
Much larger organisation than current private sector employer so room to grow experience/switch role in the future
New challenge to get teeth into/energising

Cons
Risky - may not enjoy culture
Vulnerable until two year mark
I have approx 15 years of experience/understanding of the current market I work in - Should I jettison this?
Lose the soft benefits of current employer e.g. paid for socials
I would likely opt for a home based contract so limited face to face with colleagues

Part of me thinks just go for it for a new experience.

Are there any other considerations I have missed?

[shouldbworking]

Find some people already in that bit of it to get the reality on culture etc.

The civil service is too large to tar with one brush. Some bits are awesome, some bits just need to be taken out and shot

[Previous]

Which field is your expertise, and what would the new job be doing?

I've had the privilege of being seconded into part of the civil service in the past, and landed with an excellent team. The remit of that role did include breaking processes and rebuilding them.

I've also worked with various departments over the years. As above some are awesome, and filled with motivated and knowledgeable people. Others are in the middle, and some seem to be trying their best to meet the stereotype.....

[mikef]

Pro’s
- serving your country
Con’s
- Rees-Mogg
- working with (a minority of) people who wouldn’t be employable anywhere else

[sociopath]

Pros
CS pension

Cons
You'll never achieve anything ever again

[anonymous-user]

MYOB said:

In 20 years I worked in employment, agriculture, international trade, small business support, energy and so on. I moved on every couple of years.

Does that make you a jack of all trades and a master of none ?
A generalist as they like to call it

[shouldbworking]

Personally I was always cautious of the generalists. There's moving job every two years to gain a rounded perspective, and there's moving job every two years because your total lack of ability has caught up with you.

Hoping the earlier poster is an exception!

[p4cks]

sociopath said:

Pros
CS pension

Cons
You'll never achieve anything ever again

This was largely my experience too

[psi310398]

Nothing much to add to the convo above but I’d challenge some of the assumptions.

Why is the CS pension listed as a pro? The new schemes (rather than the PCSPS) are not final salary-based, and are not notably generous in terms of employer contribution.

The annual leave offer for new entrants is generally nothing to write home about, either.

The key issue is what department and what team you are joining. Some bits of the CS are world class on any measure and others, erm, less so.

[fridaypassion]

My best mate went into the NHS in IT and the level of wastage and the culture almost ruined him. He went into a bit of a depression. 3 years at a project management level. He was back out into the real world as quickly as possible!

[psi310398]

fridaypassion said:

My best mate went into the NHS in IT and the level of wastage and the culture almost ruined him. He went into a bit of a depression. 3 years at a project management level. He was back out into the real world as quickly as possible!

I was about to make a related point about pubsec specialists.

As a specialist, having been a generalist, I’d say that the generalists I have worked with have been, on the whole, brighter, harder working and more motivated than the specialists, many of whom are only there because CS pay rates and employment flexibilities historically have not allowed the CS to recruit or retain top tier staff. Obviously, not all; there are, and always have been, excellent specialists in the CS.

This is changing with bespoke pay agreements and other recognitions that the employment landscape has changed both before and after covid.

The generalists, these days, are often paid less and, pound for pound, are probably graded lower, and are often there for reasons other than money e.g. a varied and interesting career with a degree of altruism. Again, that is not to say that many specialists are not similarly motivated. But there is a suspicion that some are still there because nobody else will employ them…

[21TonyK]

My experience contracting was very different to that as an employee. Contracting I was working for a proactive manager, very positive, no real politics or financial constraints.

Polar opposite as an employee. Sucks any life out of you, its a machine which is largely broken kept limping along by a few people who actually know what they are doing the rest are along for the ride.

[StevieBee]

I've provided services to the public sector at regional and national levels for the best part of 25 years. There's a few observations I'd make that you may find useful.

The dynamic agility you tend to find in the private sector does not exist in the public sector anywhere or at any level. For some, this can be highly restrictive and frustrating but I guess is something you get used to.

Linked to the above is the increase in bureaucracy you will encounter, a lot of which is needless serving little other than providing employment for others though (IMO) is mainly to remove ownership of decisions from individuals. This means that when mistakes are made, nobody is to blame but the system. This can be comforting to some.

You can fill your day with the most amazing work, do really good things and go over the call of duty. Or you can just do what you're asked to do. Either way, on the 25th of each month your wages get paid and rarely is the former recognised in anyway other than perhaps a word of thanks from your line manager. This is why the Civil Service is filled with highly competent people just doing what they're paid to do and little else. Again, this works fine for some people.

And you will become institutionalised. I've offered jobs to several Civil Servants over the years, all of whom told me stories of woe, frustration and a need to break the shackles. We have offered them significantly higher salaries and better terms, opportunities, etc. Not one of them accepted the offer and I know that most of them are still in the same job 10 years on.

All that said and proving these and the other points made on this thread you can navigate around, there is, from what I can see, some fulfilment to be had and a level of career, personal support you'll rarely find in the private sector.

[gangzoom]

psi310398 said:

Why is the CS pension listed as a pro? The new schemes (rather than the PCSPS) are not final salary-based, and are not notably generous in terms of employer contribution.

Is it anything like the NHS scheme? Even though the new NHS scheme isn't final salary if your salary is already high than the accura rate is still very good.

Add in a guaranteed CPI+1.5% addtional growth, which if CPI hits 9% will be 10% seems still pretty amazing, especially with no work needed from the employee?

[The Leaper]

MYOB said:

fridaypassion said:

My best mate went into the NHS in IT and the level of wastage and the culture almost ruined him. He went into a bit of a depression. 3 years at a project management level. He was back out into the real world as quickly as possible!

The NHS is not the Civil Service and is not comparable.

Still relevant though. This thread is about the public sector of which CS and NHS are both.

R.

[Countdown]

Depending on which department or sector you work in you'll have the chance to work with committed, talented, and experienced people who actually want to make a difference to peoples' lives. (I'm speaking from experience of working in the NHS, Education, Criminal Justice, Housing)

Depending on what level you are there is a reasonable salary/work/life balance. (Once you get above £40k the salary/perks in the Private sector are far far better - I'm talking about small things such as Ipads/laptops/per diems, up to the size of potential bonuses).

The downsides are that the Public Sector is very risk averse so changing stuff and implementing new things can be quite a challenge

[bucksmanuk]

StevieBee said:

I've provided services to the public sector at regional and national levels for the best part of 25 years. There's a few observations I'd make that you may find useful.

The dynamic agility you tend to find in the private sector does not exist in the public sector anywhere or at any level. For some, this can be highly restrictive and frustrating but I guess is something you get used to.

Linked to the above is the increase in bureaucracy you will encounter, a lot of which is needless serving little other than providing employment for others though (IMO) is mainly to remove ownership of decisions from individuals. This means that when mistakes are made, nobody is to blame but the system. This can be comforting to some.

You can fill your day with the most amazing work, do really good things and go over the call of duty. Or you can just do what you're asked to do. Either way, on the 25th of each month your wages get paid and rarely is the former recognised in anyway other than perhaps a word of thanks from your line manager. This is why the Civil Service is filled with highly competent people just doing what they're paid to do and little else. Again, this works fine for some people.

And you will become institutionalised. I've offered jobs to several Civil Servants over the years, all of whom told me stories of woe, frustration and a need to break the shackles. We have offered them significantly higher salaries and better terms, opportunities, etc. Not one of them accepted the offer and I know that most of them are still in the same job 10 years on.

All that said and proving these and the other points made on this thread you can navigate around, there is, from what I can see, some fulfilment to be had and a level of career, personal support you'll rarely find in the private sector.

I'm a contract mechanical engineer and I’ve worked in civil service environments for the last 5 years. The above is true, and no doubt there are teams who are dynamic and get things done, but they are rare.
The bureaucracy is never ending, duplicated and seems to try and absolve people of responsibility for their decisions, so any decision can be made! Or more likely NOT made.

[shouldbworking]

Bizarre how common some of the issues are, makes me wonder if posters were all in the same bit!

I did stuff like this but for things the armed forces actually wanted rather than stuff that's currently popular in the media

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk...

[sociopath]

fridaypassion said:

My best mate went into the NHS in IT and the level of wastage and the culture almost ruined him. He went into a bit of a depression. 3 years at a project management level. He was back out into the real world as quickly as possible!

Contracted in the NHS several times, never been fun. The worst place? I knew it was going to be horrific on day one, when I found out the Head of IT had his emails printed out by his PA everyday so he could read them, and write his responses long hand, for her to type up and send.

It didn't get better

[anonymous-user]

dfm said:

.....
Cons
Vulnerable until two year mark

That con made me chuckle, if you think there is a chance of that happening then start doing the lottery.

Many many years ago I worked in the CS. There were some exceptionally good people who cared and did their best to make things happen. There were many complete wastes of space whose default position is to do as little as possible. You get some of the latter in the private sector but in most companies they are rooted out quickly as they let the team down.

I would encourage people from the private sector joining the CS and showing them their agility and decision making abilities, work ethic etc as an example. Same the other way around too really.

However remember that a lot of private employers are sceptical of recruiting people from the CS as they are known to be 9-5 sticklers that doesn't sit well with deadlines in the private sector, so when looking to move out again it will be more difficult than moving in.