Engineering/sci degree/career if you're a bit un-coordinated
Discussion
Just looking for some sort of advice (not sure if this is the right forum, but).
My son is doing his A Levels, the usual stuff Maths, More Maths, Physics, Chemistry, Philosophy (AS). He's quite obsessed with fast cars & has an interest in them.
So ok, go to work for Ferrari or McLaren or whatever.
BUT the problem is he's got my mechanical skills (i.e. none), and doesn't seem to have much interest in things like modelling, repairing things, and he's quite bad on the sort of drawing side of things (awful diagrams, again like mine).
So I'm not sure if this is a good fit if you want to design cars or whatever.
He is quite interested in astrophysics, which I suppose is more abstract less likely to need someone who can use a lathe or whatever.
Any thoughts what sort of things to be looking at?
My son is doing his A Levels, the usual stuff Maths, More Maths, Physics, Chemistry, Philosophy (AS). He's quite obsessed with fast cars & has an interest in them.
So ok, go to work for Ferrari or McLaren or whatever.
BUT the problem is he's got my mechanical skills (i.e. none), and doesn't seem to have much interest in things like modelling, repairing things, and he's quite bad on the sort of drawing side of things (awful diagrams, again like mine).
So I'm not sure if this is a good fit if you want to design cars or whatever.
He is quite interested in astrophysics, which I suppose is more abstract less likely to need someone who can use a lathe or whatever.
Any thoughts what sort of things to be looking at?
thelawnet1 said:
Just looking for some sort of advice (not sure if this is the right forum, but).
My son is doing his A Levels, the usual stuff Maths, More Maths, Physics, Chemistry, Philosophy (AS). He's quite obsessed with fast cars & has an interest in them.
So ok, go to work for Ferrari or McLaren or whatever.
Why is he any different to any other spotty oik car companies are likely to see? I'm asking as a potential employer, he's got time to do so something different to create a stand out but he needs to think about thatMy son is doing his A Levels, the usual stuff Maths, More Maths, Physics, Chemistry, Philosophy (AS). He's quite obsessed with fast cars & has an interest in them.
So ok, go to work for Ferrari or McLaren or whatever.
thelawnet1 said:
BUT the problem is he's got my mechanical skills (i.e. none), and doesn't seem to have much interest in things like modelling, repairing things, and he's quite bad on the sort of drawing side of things (awful diagrams, again like mine).
So I'm not sure if this is a good fit if you want to design cars or whatever.
He is quite interested in astrophysics, which I suppose is more abstract less likely to need someone who can use a lathe or whatever.
Any thoughts what sort of things to be looking at?
I know plenty of white collar engineers who don't know one end of a screw driver from another, never mind a lathe! I do automated material handling systems now and its all about logical thinking, which his A Levels will start him on the path towards, and software & controls for automation. If he can crack that he'll be made. So I'm not sure if this is a good fit if you want to design cars or whatever.
He is quite interested in astrophysics, which I suppose is more abstract less likely to need someone who can use a lathe or whatever.
Any thoughts what sort of things to be looking at?
Just on the drawing side, while he will need to crack it most of his drawing will be in Powerpoint & Visio eventually. As long as he can get better at sketching (which he will to do to crack Maths & Physics) he'll be ok. Tell him to use the whole page to sketch the problems he's working through for homework. All that said, it would be worth looking at his learning style; is he Visual, Auditory or Kinesthetic in his learning style? See here for more detail
https://personalitymax.com/learning-styles/ - which I post as the first Google hit and no other reason.
I wouldn't say he has to do something different per se.
He just needs to have a solid base from which to be moulded by a company.
He also needs to show good levels of determination and enthusiasm to succeed at a career. This is something engineering companies tend to really look out for.
Most engineering companies like to look for young people to take existing work loads off of experienced engineers. So its a case of being good at the basics and being able to learn within the company to become experienced.
We get a lot of youngsters who tend to exaggerate their CVs, often along the lines that they are the one that's going to change the world etc.
But that's not generally what most companies are looking for. Unless of course the company is involved in leading edge new innovation technologies etc.
So a good degree is always one of the traditional BEng degrees. Such as Mechanical engineering, Structures Engineering etc.
If he goes down the line of being too specialised, say for example a motorsport engineering course, then this obviously would see him go second place in to others in a non-motorsport company.
But of course, if its McLaren or such like he is aiming for then something like a motorsport engineering degree would be a bonus.
Motorsport companies tend to look for problem solving skills and mental juggling of numbers and also visualising issue spatial in the mind before they are on CAD or paper.
There are plenty of websites that can help with becoming more co-ordinated and keeping the mind fresh with physics and maths.
For example try out www.Brilliant.org website.
He just needs to have a solid base from which to be moulded by a company.
He also needs to show good levels of determination and enthusiasm to succeed at a career. This is something engineering companies tend to really look out for.
Most engineering companies like to look for young people to take existing work loads off of experienced engineers. So its a case of being good at the basics and being able to learn within the company to become experienced.
We get a lot of youngsters who tend to exaggerate their CVs, often along the lines that they are the one that's going to change the world etc.
But that's not generally what most companies are looking for. Unless of course the company is involved in leading edge new innovation technologies etc.
So a good degree is always one of the traditional BEng degrees. Such as Mechanical engineering, Structures Engineering etc.
If he goes down the line of being too specialised, say for example a motorsport engineering course, then this obviously would see him go second place in to others in a non-motorsport company.
But of course, if its McLaren or such like he is aiming for then something like a motorsport engineering degree would be a bonus.
Motorsport companies tend to look for problem solving skills and mental juggling of numbers and also visualising issue spatial in the mind before they are on CAD or paper.
There are plenty of websites that can help with becoming more co-ordinated and keeping the mind fresh with physics and maths.
For example try out www.Brilliant.org website.
Atomic12C said:
There are plenty of websites that can help with becoming more co-ordinated and keeping the mind fresh with physics and maths.
For example try out www.Brilliant.org website.
Hmm? I'm talking practical/physical co-ordination, the sort of 'why is this not working and how can I fix it', I don't think websites will give you too much with that.For example try out www.Brilliant.org website.
I think there's a 'mechanical mind' in that sense, obviously much is learned but some of it seems to be more intrinsic.
--
I suppose a more data-based/analytical approach might suit him more, he is autistic, and he likes statistics, so perhaps something along the lines of Mathematics & Physics as a degree
Edited by thelawnet1 on Wednesday 30th January 23:25
FFT, horrible b
d things. Laplace, not so bad once you get your head around them.
My advice would be automotive engineering apprenticeship. Many companies do level 3+ apprenticeships for school leavers, often incorporating practical skills like spannering and machining with theoretical study. Most also do post-grad schemes where they can use their theoretical knowledge and apply it in a live environment if the practical thing doesn't appeal.
d things. Laplace, not so bad once you get your head around them. My advice would be automotive engineering apprenticeship. Many companies do level 3+ apprenticeships for school leavers, often incorporating practical skills like spannering and machining with theoretical study. Most also do post-grad schemes where they can use their theoretical knowledge and apply it in a live environment if the practical thing doesn't appeal.
As others have said, you don't need manual skills to be a good engineer.
Some may disagree but I'd say, if he's got the ability to get a good degree then he is unlikely to be getting his hands dirty. I'm reasonably good with my hands but am sat in an office doing design/analysis work all day. I'm old enough to have learnt drafting on a drawing board but there's no need for that nowadays and many designers I know can't sketch for toffee. Yet put them in front of CATIA and they're awesome.
If he goes down the apprentiship route then I work with many who have spent 3-6 months in the machine shop but then spend the rest of it in the office. Depending on their interest/aptitude they may never see a workshop or use manual tools ever again.
By the sound of it, he's doing the right A levels for engineering (with the exception of philosophy) so just needs to concentrate on getting some decent grades and also getting an internship somewhere.
If he's into astrophysics then why not look at the space industry? I'm not sure where you're located but there's a reasonable amount going on but mostly around Oxford, Surrey, Hertfordshire.
Some may disagree but I'd say, if he's got the ability to get a good degree then he is unlikely to be getting his hands dirty. I'm reasonably good with my hands but am sat in an office doing design/analysis work all day. I'm old enough to have learnt drafting on a drawing board but there's no need for that nowadays and many designers I know can't sketch for toffee. Yet put them in front of CATIA and they're awesome.
If he goes down the apprentiship route then I work with many who have spent 3-6 months in the machine shop but then spend the rest of it in the office. Depending on their interest/aptitude they may never see a workshop or use manual tools ever again.
By the sound of it, he's doing the right A levels for engineering (with the exception of philosophy) so just needs to concentrate on getting some decent grades and also getting an internship somewhere.
If he's into astrophysics then why not look at the space industry? I'm not sure where you're located but there's a reasonable amount going on but mostly around Oxford, Surrey, Hertfordshire.
To be good at engineering, he needs a strong interest/desire to really understand how stuff works/or why it doesn't (along with the tenacity/perseverance to keep digging until he does), along with good maths and physics.
Interest and a genuine passion in a particular sector (eg automotive, aero, civil etc) helps focus/drive that.
He sounds little different from the 50% of my engineering degree grad course 20 years ago (some were very practical, some not).
Note that engineering degree courses are not easy.. 90%maths (or they were), get DFT, laplace, finite element analysis, etc etc (have a look at Kreizigs Engineering Mathematics for a taster of we had to learn (mid 90's), not sure what is used now).
Interest and a genuine passion in a particular sector (eg automotive, aero, civil etc) helps focus/drive that.
He sounds little different from the 50% of my engineering degree grad course 20 years ago (some were very practical, some not).
Note that engineering degree courses are not easy.. 90%maths (or they were), get DFT, laplace, finite element analysis, etc etc (have a look at Kreizigs Engineering Mathematics for a taster of we had to learn (mid 90's), not sure what is used now).
Some of your son's missing skills passed me by as well - even my stick men look about as sticky and man-y as an oiled up Alan Carr, can't solder worth a damn.
I've been an electronics engineer man and boy (!).
DIY skills of a blind man.
Although I do have some of the more usual engineer traits - fixing and building stuff.
Nonetheless agree with other posters that engineers can go a long way in the virtual domain.
But philosophy, that's an odd one?
I've been an electronics engineer man and boy (!).
DIY skills of a blind man.
Although I do have some of the more usual engineer traits - fixing and building stuff.
Nonetheless agree with other posters that engineers can go a long way in the virtual domain.
But philosophy, that's an odd one?
I'm an engineer with an engineering degree. I rebuild old bikes and cars in my spare time. I have to do it in my spare time because there are no requirements to do it in my day-job. It will of course help, but if you can think logically (if I push this here, it will bend there..." you should be OK. That's including a couple of years at Lotus (albeit as a programme planner/proposal writer).
Evanivitch said:
There's plenty of engineering computational modelling he can make good money in.
And he sounds like every Finite Element Analysis boffin that I've ever met.
There are ever more opportunities in engineering where you never need to get your hands dirty, although an appreciation of the oily bits never harms. I model suspension systems on computers then develop them into full vehicle models. These have been very important for the last 20 years+, but becoming even more important now with the increases in control systems that are leading to self driving vehicles. There's a lot of simulation to be done to stop things going wrong before they are let out on the road.And he sounds like every Finite Element Analysis boffin that I've ever met.
Like a previous poster I only deal with real dirty bits in my own time.
crofty1984 said:
I'm an engineer with an engineering degree. I rebuild old bikes and cars in my spare time. I have to do it in my spare time because there are no requirements to do it in my day-job. It will of course help, but if you can think logically (if I push this here, it will bend there..." you should be OK.
Similar here, if I'm messing about with something physically, it's probably one of my hobbies. I spend most of my paid time digging through paperwork and specifications. To be contraire, it often matters little what his interests are now. He has no exposure, hasn't tried new things. Are you guilty (because you want to be a good parent) at attempting to plan his life? Liking fast cars doesn't mean it should be his career. Often, hobbies are destroyed because they become jobs.
Being good at narrow school subjects, like maths and sciences, doesn't mean you want to be an engineer or scientist. Some of the most creative people in the world are also brilliant at maths (and they could be engineers or designers or artists too). Schooling and education today is out of kilter more than ever with the working world and kids are asked to specialise far too early - leading to a miserable career, a feeling of being boxed in.
If I were 18, I would work shadow people, I would join clubs/societies of things I'm interested in (in the community, out of town - loads of stuff in London, send him on a train, or the millions of communities online), I'd ask my dad and his friends and my uncles to see if they can get me to shadow some of their projects. What do people do at work? I'd look at online courses and do some basement coding of an application, or just use low code to mess around with stuff. Or open a small online business - sell stuff on Amazon marketplace, source it from abroad for a few hundred quid and see where I go? Offer to improve digital metrics of local business online through Google SEO? I'd try these things for a few weeks, see if there is enough there for me to continue, then move on the next opportunity.
I'd volunteer time, I'd probably work and travel the world a bit too. I'd take a gap year or two do this before going university - as long as you can evidence your experiences, universities don't care. They just want to know you haven't been in prison during that time, and your academic skills are still sharp. "I created a website for local mechanics to share knowledge and pool resources" sounds like a compelling personal statement to university admissions even if it didn't take off.
Until you hit your mid/late 20's, you should focus on experimenting and widening your field of view. You can figure out what interests you, what motivates you - what you can look and say "i need to double down on that." Life gets serious after your mid 20's - all the horribleness of feeling "consciously incompetent" at work (if you're not unemployed for long periods which most of today's graduates are), relationships getting serious and prickly, not being able to afford a house or feeling truly independent - and having that solid base and adaptable attitude will set you up for life.
I'm a parent of a 14 and 16 year old and my job is to give them the ability to stand up on their own, find their own way when things don't work out. Providing basic guardrails. It isn't to point and shoot them in a direction, but set them up with opportunities where they can experience and do new stuff.
Being good at narrow school subjects, like maths and sciences, doesn't mean you want to be an engineer or scientist. Some of the most creative people in the world are also brilliant at maths (and they could be engineers or designers or artists too). Schooling and education today is out of kilter more than ever with the working world and kids are asked to specialise far too early - leading to a miserable career, a feeling of being boxed in.
If I were 18, I would work shadow people, I would join clubs/societies of things I'm interested in (in the community, out of town - loads of stuff in London, send him on a train, or the millions of communities online), I'd ask my dad and his friends and my uncles to see if they can get me to shadow some of their projects. What do people do at work? I'd look at online courses and do some basement coding of an application, or just use low code to mess around with stuff. Or open a small online business - sell stuff on Amazon marketplace, source it from abroad for a few hundred quid and see where I go? Offer to improve digital metrics of local business online through Google SEO? I'd try these things for a few weeks, see if there is enough there for me to continue, then move on the next opportunity.
I'd volunteer time, I'd probably work and travel the world a bit too. I'd take a gap year or two do this before going university - as long as you can evidence your experiences, universities don't care. They just want to know you haven't been in prison during that time, and your academic skills are still sharp. "I created a website for local mechanics to share knowledge and pool resources" sounds like a compelling personal statement to university admissions even if it didn't take off.
Until you hit your mid/late 20's, you should focus on experimenting and widening your field of view. You can figure out what interests you, what motivates you - what you can look and say "i need to double down on that." Life gets serious after your mid 20's - all the horribleness of feeling "consciously incompetent" at work (if you're not unemployed for long periods which most of today's graduates are), relationships getting serious and prickly, not being able to afford a house or feeling truly independent - and having that solid base and adaptable attitude will set you up for life.
I'm a parent of a 14 and 16 year old and my job is to give them the ability to stand up on their own, find their own way when things don't work out. Providing basic guardrails. It isn't to point and shoot them in a direction, but set them up with opportunities where they can experience and do new stuff.
Edited by silent ninja on Saturday 2nd February 13:52
silent ninja said:
To be contraire, it often matters little what his interests are now. He has no exposure, hasn't tried new things. Are you guilty (because you want to be a good parent) at attempting to plan his life? Liking fast cars doesn't mean it should be his career. Often, hobbies are destroyed because they become jobs.
Being good at narrow school subjects, like maths and sciences, doesn't mean you want to be an engineer or scientist. Some of the most creative people in the world are also brilliant at maths (and they could be engineers or designers or artists too). Schooling and education today is out of kilter more than ever with the working world and kids are asked to specialise far too early - leading to a miserable career, a feeling of being boxed in.
If I were 18, I would work shadow people, I would join clubs/societies of things I'm interested in (in the community, out of town - loads of stuff in London, send him on a train, or the millions of communities online), I'd ask my dad and his friends and my uncles to see if they can get me to shadow some of their projects. What do people do at work? I'd look at online courses and do some basement coding of an application, or just use low code to mess around with stuff. Or open a small online business - sell stuff on Amazon marketplace, source it from abroad for a few hundred quid and see where you go? Offer to improve digital metrics of local business online through Google SEO? I'd try these things for a few weeks, see if there is enough there for me to continue, then move on the next opportunity.
I'd volunteer time, I'd probably work and travel the world a bit too. Maybe take a gap year or two before going university - as long as you can evidence your experiences, universities don't care. They just want to know you haven't been in prison during that time, and your academic skills are still sharp. "I created a website for local mechanics to share knowledge and pool resources" sounds like a compelling personal statement to university admissions.
Until you hit your mid/late 20's, you should focus on experimenting and widening your field of view. You can figure out what interests you, what motivates you - what you can look and say "i need to double down on that." Life gets serious after your mid 20's - all the horribleness of feeling "consciously incompetent" at work (if you're not unemployed for long periods which most of today's graduates are), relationships getting serious and prickly, not being able to afford a house or feeling truly independent - and having that solid base and adaptable attitude will set you up for life.
I'm a parent of a 14 and 16 year old and my job is to give them the ability to stand up on their own, find their own way when things don't work out. Providing basic guardrails. It isn't to point and shoot them in a direction, but set them up with opportunities where they can experience and do new stuff.
I don't know if you tried to hit every cliche, but you did! Fair play.Being good at narrow school subjects, like maths and sciences, doesn't mean you want to be an engineer or scientist. Some of the most creative people in the world are also brilliant at maths (and they could be engineers or designers or artists too). Schooling and education today is out of kilter more than ever with the working world and kids are asked to specialise far too early - leading to a miserable career, a feeling of being boxed in.
If I were 18, I would work shadow people, I would join clubs/societies of things I'm interested in (in the community, out of town - loads of stuff in London, send him on a train, or the millions of communities online), I'd ask my dad and his friends and my uncles to see if they can get me to shadow some of their projects. What do people do at work? I'd look at online courses and do some basement coding of an application, or just use low code to mess around with stuff. Or open a small online business - sell stuff on Amazon marketplace, source it from abroad for a few hundred quid and see where you go? Offer to improve digital metrics of local business online through Google SEO? I'd try these things for a few weeks, see if there is enough there for me to continue, then move on the next opportunity.
I'd volunteer time, I'd probably work and travel the world a bit too. Maybe take a gap year or two before going university - as long as you can evidence your experiences, universities don't care. They just want to know you haven't been in prison during that time, and your academic skills are still sharp. "I created a website for local mechanics to share knowledge and pool resources" sounds like a compelling personal statement to university admissions.
Until you hit your mid/late 20's, you should focus on experimenting and widening your field of view. You can figure out what interests you, what motivates you - what you can look and say "i need to double down on that." Life gets serious after your mid 20's - all the horribleness of feeling "consciously incompetent" at work (if you're not unemployed for long periods which most of today's graduates are), relationships getting serious and prickly, not being able to afford a house or feeling truly independent - and having that solid base and adaptable attitude will set you up for life.
I'm a parent of a 14 and 16 year old and my job is to give them the ability to stand up on their own, find their own way when things don't work out. Providing basic guardrails. It isn't to point and shoot them in a direction, but set them up with opportunities where they can experience and do new stuff.
Edited by silent ninja on Saturday 2nd February 13:33
Evanivitch said:
I don't know if you tried to hit every cliche, but you did! Fair play.
Maybe you're guilty of being cynical. I suggested a wide range of stuff, much of it I've done or tried myself. I joined a stand up comedy group just so I could get better at public speaking, for example. I actually got my first professional job because of a piece of work I volunteered to do for our IT department (a team I didn't work for, I spent my spare time there). I was good at maths, physics, chemistry and biology at A level, but that's not the type of career I've now landed in to. I worked at a dentist for 1 month and hated it, for example. You will be surprised how many opportunities come about because of being in the right time and right place and trying new things.Having an entrepreneurial mindset isn't learned from doing an academic degree. School no longer provides you a successful career path - if anyone believes this, they are still living in the 80's. It just doesn't work - look at the massive number of unemployed graduates. I know several - they're just not resourceful, just don't try stuff, too scared. They think doing A, B then C will mean they get a job and live happily ever after. The bubble bursts quickly and it's disillusioning.
I think going to do a degree in something where you don't have the feintest idea what it's about or the type of job it leads to (has an 18 year old seen the inside of a company?) is a high risk, ill informed and stupid bet.
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