Employment tribunal - who's been?
Discussion
Anyone been an employee and taken a company to tribunal?
Long story short:
Technically I'm still employed with the said firm.
Incident was on march 12th I was chucked in a smokers truck, asthma attack was caused, hospitalised.
Visited office on 13th verbally suspended with no pay, told to provide a fit for work note.
Note provided on 16th stating I was fit to work under controlled conditions as managed previously by the firm.(driving the same vehicle I had been for the last year)
Informal meeting held on 27/3, they stated that they weren't happy with the fit note and as such I would remain on SSP.
Nothing until i forwarded a solicitors letter on 24/4
They requested another informal meeting, which I requested it as written confirmation. They refused and made it a formal meeting.
Formal meeting on 17/5 they refused to bring me back to my original job role. Stating that my medical report was inconclusive.
I appealed the grievance as they didn't find grounds for it (surprise surprise)
Grievance hearing no.2 commenced 20/7 between managing director and myself, and 2 witnesses.
Grievance not upheld, minutes from the meeting cherry picked to make me look bad and fabricated stuff that wasn't even said.
I contacted ACAS to use the free conciliation, they rejected and refused to do anything outside of tribunal.
I received a letter today from them, stating they hadn't received any correspondence from myself, and if they didn't receive anything by 16/9 they would call a meeting that I must attend of which my contract may be terminated.
The main reason I'm taking it so far, is I have been signed fit for work, yet they are refusing to return me to my original job role. And then placing me on long term sick. I'm not sick, I have presented myself fit And willing for work, as has my medical professional. So I believe I have been suspended, and therefore am entitled to my full salary.
They have offered me alternative work, but it is substantially changed my role and pay scale. But it is unsuitable due to my health.
Long story short:
Technically I'm still employed with the said firm.
Incident was on march 12th I was chucked in a smokers truck, asthma attack was caused, hospitalised.
Visited office on 13th verbally suspended with no pay, told to provide a fit for work note.
Note provided on 16th stating I was fit to work under controlled conditions as managed previously by the firm.(driving the same vehicle I had been for the last year)
Informal meeting held on 27/3, they stated that they weren't happy with the fit note and as such I would remain on SSP.
Nothing until i forwarded a solicitors letter on 24/4
They requested another informal meeting, which I requested it as written confirmation. They refused and made it a formal meeting.
Formal meeting on 17/5 they refused to bring me back to my original job role. Stating that my medical report was inconclusive.
I appealed the grievance as they didn't find grounds for it (surprise surprise)
Grievance hearing no.2 commenced 20/7 between managing director and myself, and 2 witnesses.
Grievance not upheld, minutes from the meeting cherry picked to make me look bad and fabricated stuff that wasn't even said.
I contacted ACAS to use the free conciliation, they rejected and refused to do anything outside of tribunal.
I received a letter today from them, stating they hadn't received any correspondence from myself, and if they didn't receive anything by 16/9 they would call a meeting that I must attend of which my contract may be terminated.
The main reason I'm taking it so far, is I have been signed fit for work, yet they are refusing to return me to my original job role. And then placing me on long term sick. I'm not sick, I have presented myself fit And willing for work, as has my medical professional. So I believe I have been suspended, and therefore am entitled to my full salary.
They have offered me alternative work, but it is substantially changed my role and pay scale. But it is unsuitable due to my health.
Yes, I've been to one and you can certainly represent yourself.
From what you have said I would ssy the employer not acting appropriately.
First, smoking in a commercial vehicle is unlawfull so you would have a claim against them for putting you in a vehicle where they allowed smoking.
Second, they appear not to have requested you undertake any medical examination for the purpose of their decision. Therefore they have no medical basis to refuse your GP fit for work confirmation.
Now, you state you only want your previous job back. Does this mean you have refused reasonable alternatives they have offered you?
From what you have said I would ssy the employer not acting appropriately.
First, smoking in a commercial vehicle is unlawfull so you would have a claim against them for putting you in a vehicle where they allowed smoking.
Second, they appear not to have requested you undertake any medical examination for the purpose of their decision. Therefore they have no medical basis to refuse your GP fit for work confirmation.
Now, you state you only want your previous job back. Does this mean you have refused reasonable alternatives they have offered you?
Sorry, I did have a quick look and didn't see the employment section. My apologies.
My witness has also said the minutes were not of a true representation of the meeting. I recorded the meeting and forwarded it onto them to adjust them. No such thing happened.
They claim they cannot police people smoking in vehicles. I'm sorry but people like DHL manage it!
I have refused other work, on the basis that:
- they cannot guarantee me a smoke free vehicle (they said they'd valet one, but couldn't guarantee I would be the sole user)
- I'm a night artic driver, they wanted me to go onto days, doing multi-drop in a rigid and would cut my wages to that of the day drivers
- doing multi-drop would involve alot more physical work, which isn't suited to my asthma.
I have asked why I have not been asked to see their medical professional, they said that they wanted the opinion of my medical professional who sees me more often.
I know they have already hired someone in my place(although when confronted about this, they claim they have got busier and need him. They haven't, they still use the same amount of trucks at night as before.)
I'm in no doubt if I went back, I wouldn't last, they'd find something to sack me for.
My witness has also said the minutes were not of a true representation of the meeting. I recorded the meeting and forwarded it onto them to adjust them. No such thing happened.
They claim they cannot police people smoking in vehicles. I'm sorry but people like DHL manage it!
I have refused other work, on the basis that:
- they cannot guarantee me a smoke free vehicle (they said they'd valet one, but couldn't guarantee I would be the sole user)
- I'm a night artic driver, they wanted me to go onto days, doing multi-drop in a rigid and would cut my wages to that of the day drivers
- doing multi-drop would involve alot more physical work, which isn't suited to my asthma.
I have asked why I have not been asked to see their medical professional, they said that they wanted the opinion of my medical professional who sees me more often.
I know they have already hired someone in my place(although when confronted about this, they claim they have got busier and need him. They haven't, they still use the same amount of trucks at night as before.)
I'm in no doubt if I went back, I wouldn't last, they'd find something to sack me for.
The employer must comply with the smoking laws. If they fail to they can be prosecuted.
They appear to be on a hiding to nothing over the medical evidence. They insisted on a report from your GP and then promptly ignore it!
Given that your GP has certified you fit for work then if the employer wishes to offer you an alternative position then it should be on similar terms and conditions as your previous position, a significant decrease in wages and increased workload does not appear similar to me.
Another thing, are they paying you SSP which they are claiming from HMRC? If so, as you are not certified unfit for work it would appear a fraudulent claim on their part.
I would suggest you insist on your job back and and if they refuse tell them you will consider it constructive dismissal and will take them to the employment tribunal. The tribunal has the power to reinstate you but is more likely to just order financial compensation if you win.
They appear to be on a hiding to nothing over the medical evidence. They insisted on a report from your GP and then promptly ignore it!
Given that your GP has certified you fit for work then if the employer wishes to offer you an alternative position then it should be on similar terms and conditions as your previous position, a significant decrease in wages and increased workload does not appear similar to me.
Another thing, are they paying you SSP which they are claiming from HMRC? If so, as you are not certified unfit for work it would appear a fraudulent claim on their part.
I would suggest you insist on your job back and and if they refuse tell them you will consider it constructive dismissal and will take them to the employment tribunal. The tribunal has the power to reinstate you but is more likely to just order financial compensation if you win.
This is my thoughts. They have stated in the latest letter "I will once again reiterate that the offer of alternative work (immediately) would be on no less favourable terms (e.g Pay and benefits) and the company would be willing to pay you the higher artic day rate for the day job until a resolution is agreed and we can seek further medical information to confirm it is safe for me to drive the class 1 artic vehicle"
Now, day drivers are on circa £370 a week, as a night driver I was earning £505/week, the day drivers have upto 26 drops a day, including more manual handling (pallet trucks/handballing etc) pallets upto and over 1000kg, where as a night driver I had 1 drop only.
I have insisted in returning to work on my old role, but they have refused as per the above.
I can only assume they are claiming it from the HMRC.
I have threatened it being constructive dismissal but that didn't get anywhere. I think it'll have to get tribunal started before they realise I'm not bluffing. They have a habit of just bullying their way forward.
Now, day drivers are on circa £370 a week, as a night driver I was earning £505/week, the day drivers have upto 26 drops a day, including more manual handling (pallet trucks/handballing etc) pallets upto and over 1000kg, where as a night driver I had 1 drop only.
I have insisted in returning to work on my old role, but they have refused as per the above.
I can only assume they are claiming it from the HMRC.
I have threatened it being constructive dismissal but that didn't get anywhere. I think it'll have to get tribunal started before they realise I'm not bluffing. They have a habit of just bullying their way forward.
First thing, you should document and write your own notes of the events and submit them to the company for their records. Secondly, you need to get some proper advice. A few paragraphs here based ona few paraggraphs of what you have described is never going to cover everything. You may have a claim for unlawful deduction of wages. Do you have a copy of your job description? Has your GP reviewed this? What medical/occupational health advice has the company sought? Have you met or spoken with your line manager?
First thing, you should document and write your own notes of the events and submit them to the company for their records. Secondly, you need to get some proper advice. A few paragraphs here based ona few paraggraphs of what you have described is never going to cover everything. You may have a claim for unlawful deduction of wages. Do you have a copy of your job description? Has your GP reviewed this? What medical/occupational health advice has the company sought? Have you met or spoken with your line manager?
I am not completely persuaded that the employer is being unreasonable. It has offered to let the OP do the day shift but be paid as for the night shift. I would not rush to claim constructive dismissal.
Asthma can be a disability, but is not necessarily one, as all depends on the amount of impairment to normal functions.
If the different type of work on the day shift would be difficult because of the OP's asthma, then he would have a legitimate complaint, but absent that the employer might be able to reassign the OP to other duties.
Anyway, OP, take the offer of free advice.
Asthma can be a disability, but is not necessarily one, as all depends on the amount of impairment to normal functions.
If the different type of work on the day shift would be difficult because of the OP's asthma, then he would have a legitimate complaint, but absent that the employer might be able to reassign the OP to other duties.
Anyway, OP, take the offer of free advice.
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 12th September 13:06
I was on the understanding they had to pay me my normal wage, but they are offering th day rate which is circa £130/week less!
I have offered in the previous meetings to terminate my employment, upon payment for what I am owed (basic salary upto said date minus the SSP already paid. They rejected this each time.
I have offered in the previous meetings to terminate my employment, upon payment for what I am owed (basic salary upto said date minus the SSP already paid. They rejected this each time.
The letter you quoted sounds like the employer is offering to keep your pay at the same rate as before. From your last post it sounds like the employer wants you to stay, as if it wanted you to leave it would have bitten your arm off with that offer.
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 12th September 14:08
Breadvan72 said:
The letter you quoted sounds like the employer is offering to keep your pay at the same rate as before. From your last post it sounds like the employer wants you to stay, as if it wanted you to leave it would have bitten your arm off with that offer.
They've said the more favourable artic day rate, which is £370/week. Against my usual £505.Edited by Breadvan72 on Thursday 12th September 14:08
You said:-
Dan172 said:
... They have stated in the latest letter "I will once again reiterate that the offer of alternative work (immediately) would be on no less favourable terms (e.g Pay and benefits) ...
Are you sure you are interpreting the employer's offer correctly? Maybe ask for clarification, as the letter you quote suggests "no less favourable". Don't be in a rush or dig yourself into a corner when a negotiated solution may still be possible. To answer the original question, I have taken my employer to the tribunal and represented myself in a 2 week hearing - it is NOT easy and takes over your life ( it took me 2 years to get to a proper hearing )
I would recommend you do not back yourself into a corner , a compromise should be able to be reached from what you say .
How about suggesting to them doing the d/shift (no financial loss to you as they say) for a set period then back onto nights ?
re them guaranteeing a non smoking cab - as long as someone isn't smoking in there when your in should be sufficient for you I would suspect, asking for a cab that has never been smoked in may be seen as you being unreasonable
good luck
I would recommend you do not back yourself into a corner , a compromise should be able to be reached from what you say .
How about suggesting to them doing the d/shift (no financial loss to you as they say) for a set period then back onto nights ?
re them guaranteeing a non smoking cab - as long as someone isn't smoking in there when your in should be sufficient for you I would suspect, asking for a cab that has never been smoked in may be seen as you being unreasonable
good luck
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