Few questions about a new job (working hours and pay)
Discussion
Hey guys, just interested in clearing up a few queries I have about my new job.
The first being about the eu regulations about working hours. I work 12 hour shifts, 6 days in a row with 3 days off at the end of it, more than the 48 hours permitted without opting out which of course I had to do when getting the job. Now what I wanted to know quite simply is if it was legal to "force" someone into signing a opt out (It was made clear sign it or I wouldn't be employed) and what legal right I would have if I exercised my legal right to opt back into the 48 hour limit and they decided to sack me? It only clicked to me today this is why seemingly every other company in this sector has 4 days of 12 hour shifts and 3 days off, I was just wondering how this company legally gets away with this?
The second is pay. Excluding lunch break at an hour a day I work 66 hours a "week". I get paid 19000 a year. No overtime or bonuses worth talking about. I was told because I'm on a yearly salary above minimum wage technically they can pay me below it, but now that I think about it that doesn't seem right surely? Could I in theory have someone working a 80 hour week on 15k then!?
Yes, I know the job is horrible, but financially I had to take it at the time.
The first being about the eu regulations about working hours. I work 12 hour shifts, 6 days in a row with 3 days off at the end of it, more than the 48 hours permitted without opting out which of course I had to do when getting the job. Now what I wanted to know quite simply is if it was legal to "force" someone into signing a opt out (It was made clear sign it or I wouldn't be employed) and what legal right I would have if I exercised my legal right to opt back into the 48 hour limit and they decided to sack me? It only clicked to me today this is why seemingly every other company in this sector has 4 days of 12 hour shifts and 3 days off, I was just wondering how this company legally gets away with this?
The second is pay. Excluding lunch break at an hour a day I work 66 hours a "week". I get paid 19000 a year. No overtime or bonuses worth talking about. I was told because I'm on a yearly salary above minimum wage technically they can pay me below it, but now that I think about it that doesn't seem right surely? Could I in theory have someone working a 80 hour week on 15k then!?
Yes, I know the job is horrible, but financially I had to take it at the time.
Also you probably could opt back in to the working time directive but if you did you would likely be let go. You can be let go for no reason in particular (as long as it's not sex/race/sexual orientation/etc) within your first 2 years of employment (1 year if you started before 6 April 2012). Even if you are past this qualifying period, I'm sure you will find yourself 'managed out' if you make waves.
You're better off just finding a new job. You say other places in the industry do 4 on 3 off. You now have experience in the industry. Jump ship.
You're better off just finding a new job. You say other places in the industry do 4 on 3 off. You now have experience in the industry. Jump ship.
I had a feeling that was the case.
Truth be told I've only been doing the Job for a month but quite honestly I cannot hack the hours for the pay. Its the same/less amount of money for twice the hours compared to doing a similar job at a "static" location as I have been doing before being let go a few months ago. I thought being on the road/not having direct supervision/less stress would make up for the hours, but it hasn't come close. Which is is shame as I do fundamentally enjoy it compared to what I had been doing, but I am looking to leave soon.
Truth be told I've only been doing the Job for a month but quite honestly I cannot hack the hours for the pay. Its the same/less amount of money for twice the hours compared to doing a similar job at a "static" location as I have been doing before being let go a few months ago. I thought being on the road/not having direct supervision/less stress would make up for the hours, but it hasn't come close. Which is is shame as I do fundamentally enjoy it compared to what I had been doing, but I am looking to leave soon.
279 said:
The first being about the eu regulations about working hours. I work 12 hour shifts, 6 days in a row with 3 days off at the end of it, more than the 48 hours permitted without opting out which of course I had to do when getting the job. Now what I wanted to know quite simply is if it was legal to "force" someone into signing a opt out (It was made clear sign it or I wouldn't be employed) and what legal right I would have if I exercised my legal right to opt back into the 48 hour limit and they decided to sack me? It only clicked to me today this is why seemingly every other company in this sector has 4 days of 12 hour shifts and 3 days off, I was just wondering how this company legally gets away with this?
They don't - it's not legal. However unless someone complains and takes them to an employment tribunal nothing will be done. What type of work is it? Some jobs are not allowed to opt out.279 said:
The second is pay. Excluding lunch break at an hour a day I work 66 hours a "week". I get paid 19000 a year. No overtime or bonuses worth talking about. I was told because I'm on a yearly salary above minimum wage technically they can pay me below it, but now that I think about it that doesn't seem right surely? Could I in theory have someone working a 80 hour week on 15k then!?
By my calcs you work 72 hours every 9 days which works out at an average of 56 hours per week. That gives you an hourly rate of £6.52 which is above the minimum wage.They can't pay you below minimum wage regardless of being salaried or otherwise, so 80 hour weeks on a 15k salary would not be legal.
stevenjhepburn said:
Also you probably could opt back in to the working time directive but if you did you would likely be let go. You can be let go for no reason in particular (as long as it's not sex/race/sexual orientation/etc) within your first 2 years of employment (1 year if you started before 6 April 2012). Even if you are past this qualifying period, I'm sure you will find yourself 'managed out' if you make waves.
While it's true that you have minimal protection from dismissal in the first 2 years, exercising your right to opt back in to the working time regulations is one of the things that is automatically unfair and thus you could take the company to a tribunal for dismissing you.The full list is here: https://www.gov.uk/dismiss-staff/unfair-dismissals
Flibble said:
While it's true that you have minimal protection from dismissal in the first 2 years, exercising your right to opt back in to the working time regulations is one of the things that is automatically unfair and thus you could take the company to a tribunal for dismissing you.
The full list is here: https://www.gov.uk/dismiss-staff/unfair-dismissals
Although I would imagine that any savvy employer wouldn't dismiss for that reason, they would simply use another reason instead and I think it would be very difficult to prove otherwise.The full list is here: https://www.gov.uk/dismiss-staff/unfair-dismissals
Forty eight hours is calculated over any continuous seventeen week period. You cannot calculate on a two week period in isolation.
If your worx pattern is a continuous six on, three off with no change whatsoever, no extended rest periods, then it does appear to be in breach of the regulations unless it is an excluded occupation. You need to use Google to see if this is the case.
If your worx pattern is a continuous six on, three off with no change whatsoever, no extended rest periods, then it does appear to be in breach of the regulations unless it is an excluded occupation. You need to use Google to see if this is the case.
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