Unfair wage deductions / fines
Discussion
Can anyone offer me some advice please? First of all a bit of background about the job.
I work for a national next day parcel delivery firm (A*C) and about 18 months ago we were forced to go self employed or get dismissed, my pay is £70 per day for which I start at 6am and finish between 5 and 6 pm.
There are about 20 of us driver's there and our job involves unloading the freight off the trunker and then sorting it into our loading bays and then loading our own vans to be out on the road for between 7:30 and 8:00.
We have some timed deliveries which need to be done before 9, 10 or 12 o clock for which my boss gets paid a premium for (. We dont see any extra).
Recently they have made us sign a contract saying that if we are even 1 minute late signing in we will be fined £20 due to loss of productivity ( even though we still get out on time and all the deliveries get completed) and that we will be fined extra for any late deliveries, my question is does anyone know if this is legal and if say for example I clocked in at 6:01 I would be fined £20 so does that mean I have been penalised for making myself late for the day that if my timed deliveries were then late he could not fine me extra as I have already been penalised?
Thanks for any advice
I work for a national next day parcel delivery firm (A*C) and about 18 months ago we were forced to go self employed or get dismissed, my pay is £70 per day for which I start at 6am and finish between 5 and 6 pm.
There are about 20 of us driver's there and our job involves unloading the freight off the trunker and then sorting it into our loading bays and then loading our own vans to be out on the road for between 7:30 and 8:00.
We have some timed deliveries which need to be done before 9, 10 or 12 o clock for which my boss gets paid a premium for (. We dont see any extra).
Recently they have made us sign a contract saying that if we are even 1 minute late signing in we will be fined £20 due to loss of productivity ( even though we still get out on time and all the deliveries get completed) and that we will be fined extra for any late deliveries, my question is does anyone know if this is legal and if say for example I clocked in at 6:01 I would be fined £20 so does that mean I have been penalised for making myself late for the day that if my timed deliveries were then late he could not fine me extra as I have already been penalised?
Thanks for any advice
In answer to the questions no i don't have to find my own van ( although the workers with their own vans get paid £150 a day and they have to pay their own fuel) but I am self employed in the fact that I have to pay my own NI and tax and i don't get any holiday pay and also if I phone in sick I lose my 70 wages and i get fined another £150 on top of that for every day I'm off.
Yes we were forced to go self employed cos I started there in June 2011 as an employed driver and in Feb 2012 3 of us were called into the directors office and told that due to rising insurance and fuel costs we would either have to go self employed or be laid off.
I couldn't afford to buy my own van in the 1 weeks notice he gave so i had no choice but to be laid off, I spent 2 months on job seekers allowance before I went back and asked if I could have my job back but was told I could only be self employed and they would provide the van and running costs.
They told us to sign a contract about deductions and fines and if we didn't sign it our contracts would be terminated.
Morale is so low there its unbelievable, the boss swans around in a brand new range rover, all the offices and even the toilets were recently air conditioned yet we have no heating in the warehouse and it gets bloody cold in winter, he parks his 90k boat in the staff car park and last week he took great pleasure in telling us all he bought a holiday lodge for 110k
Yes we were forced to go self employed cos I started there in June 2011 as an employed driver and in Feb 2012 3 of us were called into the directors office and told that due to rising insurance and fuel costs we would either have to go self employed or be laid off.
I couldn't afford to buy my own van in the 1 weeks notice he gave so i had no choice but to be laid off, I spent 2 months on job seekers allowance before I went back and asked if I could have my job back but was told I could only be self employed and they would provide the van and running costs.
They told us to sign a contract about deductions and fines and if we didn't sign it our contracts would be terminated.
Morale is so low there its unbelievable, the boss swans around in a brand new range rover, all the offices and even the toilets were recently air conditioned yet we have no heating in the warehouse and it gets bloody cold in winter, he parks his 90k boat in the staff car park and last week he took great pleasure in telling us all he bought a holiday lodge for 110k
e39darren said:
Hugo a Gogo said:
when I did multi-drop years ago, 1 minute late was counted as 15 minutes late
But I'm still getting to all my deliveries on time we did get more bonus for 9am, 10am and 12pm deliveries though
e39darren said:
No its exactly the same job
They are breaking the law.They have made you redundant even though your position in the business wasn't actually redundant. They are not allowed do this.
Secondly, it is obvious that you are not, actually, self employed.
If you apply any of the HMRC "Employment/Self Employment" tests you will find that you will fall on the side of being "employed" rather than "self employed".
Just because an employer decides to treat someone as if they were self employed does not actually make that person self employed.
As I said, speak to someone who knows the law.
Some companies are s
ts arent they.
Sorry ive not got anything constructive to add.
Are your services under a contract? what are the terms in that contract, for example are they allowed to change things? if so then you are too, so you could start invoicing them extra for the special parcels that need to be ontime etc if they arent mentioned in the contract.
Probably bad advice, and you probably dont want to rock the boat. Best thing you could do I suppose is try to find a new job.
ts arent they. Sorry ive not got anything constructive to add.
Are your services under a contract? what are the terms in that contract, for example are they allowed to change things? if so then you are too, so you could start invoicing them extra for the special parcels that need to be ontime etc if they arent mentioned in the contract.
Probably bad advice, and you probably dont want to rock the boat. Best thing you could do I suppose is try to find a new job.
£70 for 11 hours work - Minumum wage would be £66.62 for an 11 hour day.
What your employer has done is illegal, and the basis for your continued employment is also illegal.
Additionally you should in theory price in 25 days at £70 into you daily rate in order to pay for holidays.
Personally I would just leave, it sounds awful. Appreciate there arent many jobs around - but I suspect you can find other delivery work that is better than that.
What your employer has done is illegal, and the basis for your continued employment is also illegal.
Additionally you should in theory price in 25 days at £70 into you daily rate in order to pay for holidays.
Personally I would just leave, it sounds awful. Appreciate there arent many jobs around - but I suspect you can find other delivery work that is better than that.
Just a quick update, they have decided not to charge £20 to anyone who is late but instead you will be instantly dismissed for turning up at least 1 minute late, not only that but if you phone in sick not only will you not get paid your daily rate but you will also have to pay a penalty of £110 per day you are off to compensate for them having to find cover.
I know everyone says to find something else but living in the south Wales valleys where there are no full time jobs here is difficult and besides £70 a day is a very good rate round here
I know everyone says to find something else but living in the south Wales valleys where there are no full time jobs here is difficult and besides £70 a day is a very good rate round here
Gargamel said:
I am pretty sure that is illegal too !
You can't charge employees for not coming in due to sickness
It is legal if we give them permission to do it, we had to sign a new contract agreeing to the terms and i asked wot would happen if we didn't agree with the terms and refused to sign it and they told us we would be dismissed for refusing to agree to to the job description You can't charge employees for not coming in due to sickness
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