contract changes - out of hours calls, shifts
Discussion
I work in 3rd line IT support (Db, server, app, network) for a food retailer and with the change of business, new apps, they are asking for 2 changes:
1st to cover 7am-8pm on a rota (was 9-530),
2nd to formalise a new "out of hours" process that we can be called out if the 5hit hits the fan over night or weekends
The team (6) has come to agreement on a rota. Where we are less experienced is agreeing/contract changes for the OOH cover. There is a current OOH rota and only 3 people are doing it as 2 opted out. The 3 main parts of the agreement - you must "answer the phone immediately" (yes including 3am or on the toilet) and "be within 30mins of a internet connection/laptop". Payment is £150per week no matter if you are called out zero or 10 times.
I didnt agree on the proviso that i have 2 children and my wife works 50% weekends so it is too disruptive to my family life. A couple of people have also opted out mainly due to a 5hit storm created when they didnt "answer immediately" eg not waking up or missing the call in the gym etc
Now we have a chance to change the terms and payment schedule (eg payment per hour if called) so keen to find out what others find acceptable or is industry standard. Any advise appreciated
1st to cover 7am-8pm on a rota (was 9-530),
2nd to formalise a new "out of hours" process that we can be called out if the 5hit hits the fan over night or weekends
The team (6) has come to agreement on a rota. Where we are less experienced is agreeing/contract changes for the OOH cover. There is a current OOH rota and only 3 people are doing it as 2 opted out. The 3 main parts of the agreement - you must "answer the phone immediately" (yes including 3am or on the toilet) and "be within 30mins of a internet connection/laptop". Payment is £150per week no matter if you are called out zero or 10 times.
I didnt agree on the proviso that i have 2 children and my wife works 50% weekends so it is too disruptive to my family life. A couple of people have also opted out mainly due to a 5hit storm created when they didnt "answer immediately" eg not waking up or missing the call in the gym etc
Now we have a chance to change the terms and payment schedule (eg payment per hour if called) so keen to find out what others find acceptable or is industry standard. Any advise appreciated
The main sticking point for me would be the "answering the phone immediately".
I am on call for network support and if I am called out in the night I have to often ring them back as it takes me a few minutes to get my head straight before thinking about possible causes for the failure.
Other than that it seems ok - On the network in 30 minutes is reasonable, and the £150 a week seems ok as long as you aren't doing it every week.
Is there an agreement with regards to starting late the next day? For instance if you work midnight to 5am on a problem then would you still be expected to arrive at work the same time that morning?
Is there any requirement for travel to site within this OOH arrangement?
I am on call for network support and if I am called out in the night I have to often ring them back as it takes me a few minutes to get my head straight before thinking about possible causes for the failure.
Other than that it seems ok - On the network in 30 minutes is reasonable, and the £150 a week seems ok as long as you aren't doing it every week.
Is there an agreement with regards to starting late the next day? For instance if you work midnight to 5am on a problem then would you still be expected to arrive at work the same time that morning?
Is there any requirement for travel to site within this OOH arrangement?
£150 per week 1 in 2 and we get paid 1.5x or 2.0x per hour from when we get called to when we wrap up the issue.
You need to agree a stand down policy too, 14 hours i think is about right (with flexibility allowed) ie. login from home and put out any fires but not expected to pick up passwd resets from the q etc)
If they expect you to cover on call for £150 with no hourly call out fee then tell them to roll up that document nice and tight.
You need to agree a stand down policy too, 14 hours i think is about right (with flexibility allowed) ie. login from home and put out any fires but not expected to pick up passwd resets from the q etc)
If they expect you to cover on call for £150 with no hourly call out fee then tell them to roll up that document nice and tight.
Team of 2 dbas working for a 24/7/265 web company.
We are on call 24/7 except when on holiday but we manage it pretty well spreading it between us.
We get £200 month retainer and then £50 for first hour then £25 per hour after this is for each incident.
We have a best efforts of responding to the phone within 30 minutes and on the network in an hour.
If we work late then we're ok to come in late the next day.
At the moment they are looking at putting in more formal procedures but that is going to involve them opening their cheque books a lot wider if they want some formal response/ rota.
We are on call 24/7 except when on holiday but we manage it pretty well spreading it between us.
We get £200 month retainer and then £50 for first hour then £25 per hour after this is for each incident.
We have a best efforts of responding to the phone within 30 minutes and on the network in an hour.
If we work late then we're ok to come in late the next day.
At the moment they are looking at putting in more formal procedures but that is going to involve them opening their cheque books a lot wider if they want some formal response/ rota.
I work in a completely different trade but still need to provide out of hours & weekend cover. Currently ~1 night/day per week.
Questions and problems we have had raised include:
How many calls are expected, rather how many will there be.
How long do they take to sort out.
Would a laptop and mobile internet connection be fast enough or do you need to get to a propper connection?
What happens if you get several calls at once?
Will they potentially need you ON-SITE or is it REMOTE ACCESS ONLY.
Can you opt-out after giving it a go? What if everyone does?
Can you drink alcohol? (requirement to drive?)
Disturbed sleep:
Bank Holidays & Christmas. Is cover expected? Are these included in you holiday entitlement? If on call I think it's classed as you working that day,(we now get a day off in lieu.)
Working time directive: hours in a working week.
While being on call you'll notice the following: Child care issues, restricted social life, no going out for dinner, swimming, shopping trips, cinema etc... Best thing is no hangovers
It also affects peoples partners, what you can do as a couple, transport for one car households and being available for childcare if you need to go out.
Think I've covered most of it
Questions and problems we have had raised include:
How many calls are expected, rather how many will there be.
How long do they take to sort out.
Would a laptop and mobile internet connection be fast enough or do you need to get to a propper connection?
What happens if you get several calls at once?
Will they potentially need you ON-SITE or is it REMOTE ACCESS ONLY.
Can you opt-out after giving it a go? What if everyone does?
Can you drink alcohol? (requirement to drive?)
Disturbed sleep:
- What happens if you are called out (several times,) in a night and/or several nights in a row? We are on call for one night per week (different day each week on a rota,) which limits the problem to one sleepless night at a time.
- Will you need to drive/operate machinery while tired? Include driving to work the next day.
- Employers duty of care with regards to the above.
- Late starts the next day sound good BUT the wife & kids still all get up early and need taking to school etc. so there is no chance for a lie in.
- Phone & network problems. I've had phones die and networks down while on call.
- Personal or work phones.
- can coleagues cover you for the odd night(s) and how would this affect payments.
- Would it be a problem if one person, willingly, covers all the extra days available to earn more. Our mangement wanted everyone to do the same ammount.
- Notice needed for changes. By company and staff.
Bank Holidays & Christmas. Is cover expected? Are these included in you holiday entitlement? If on call I think it's classed as you working that day,(we now get a day off in lieu.)
Working time directive: hours in a working week.
While being on call you'll notice the following: Child care issues, restricted social life, no going out for dinner, swimming, shopping trips, cinema etc... Best thing is no hangovers
It also affects peoples partners, what you can do as a couple, transport for one car households and being available for childcare if you need to go out.
Think I've covered most of it
Edited by Xerstead on Thursday 10th January 21:12
I've done on call for 10 years now. We get paid next to bugger all for it (similar to OPs suggested weekly standby) we do get time 1/2 when called out but we dont have any facility for going in late the next day. So recently I was out for an hour during the night then another 1/2 hour on the phone when I got back. I was knackered so slept in an hour missing an hour of work which I didnt get paid for. So it was a pointless exercise.
Its no fun and its even less fun when you dont get sufficiently paid for it.
In an ideal world I would want double the standby pay and automatic sleep in time when called out after midnight.
Its no fun and its even less fun when you dont get sufficiently paid for it.
In an ideal world I would want double the standby pay and automatic sleep in time when called out after midnight.
Truckosaurus said:
£150 a week! F that S!
I work for a tight-arsed large multinational and our set rate is around £600 per week for OOH support, plus a decent hourly rate (way more than salary rate) if called out.
£30K pa for being on call? And pay on top of that if called?I work for a tight-arsed large multinational and our set rate is around £600 per week for OOH support, plus a decent hourly rate (way more than salary rate) if called out.
You sir are very very lucky with that rate
A flat £150 per week on call money is not acceptable in my opinion. I'd expect a flat £150 per week on call, plus at least double time per hour called out, with dispensation to come in late the next day (or work from home) if called out during the night.
You did mention the ability to opt out, so if the likelihood is you will be called out often, particularly during the night, then I'd take that option. I've done plenty of overnight support in the past and it's simply not worth the hassle for an extra £2-3k per year pre-tax.
You did mention the ability to opt out, so if the likelihood is you will be called out often, particularly during the night, then I'd take that option. I've done plenty of overnight support in the past and it's simply not worth the hassle for an extra £2-3k per year pre-tax.
I can't remember the exact rates when I did call out, but standby was something like £150 a week.
If you were called you could claim whatever the rate was per hour.
Overall, due to the amount you were pretty much guaranteed to be called out, it was worthwhile from a financial point of view.
On the downside it seriously screwed your body clock up, even if only called say twice in the night for a task that was fixed quickly, you would still be expected in next day (though a bit late would be fine ...) - try that pattern for a few nights and you feel shattered, especially if you throw in an 'all-nighter'.
It wasn't until I changed jobs and stopped the call out that I realised how much it affected me.
Given the choice, you would have to pay me serious money for me to do it again.
Martin
If you were called you could claim whatever the rate was per hour.
Overall, due to the amount you were pretty much guaranteed to be called out, it was worthwhile from a financial point of view.
On the downside it seriously screwed your body clock up, even if only called say twice in the night for a task that was fixed quickly, you would still be expected in next day (though a bit late would be fine ...) - try that pattern for a few nights and you feel shattered, especially if you throw in an 'all-nighter'.
It wasn't until I changed jobs and stopped the call out that I realised how much it affected me.
Given the choice, you would have to pay me serious money for me to do it again.
Martin
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