Working 'in sales'.
Discussion
Very broad job description?
My brother worked 'in sales' after uni when he couldn't get a job. It involved being sat at a desk all day making cold calls into businesses trying to sell headsets.
A friend of mine worked 'in sales', for a large telecoms company, it involved inbound calls, customer retention, that sort of thing, no real element of sales other than offering them some deals in the hope they don't leave.
Neither of them were particularly well paid, in fact neither of them were given much more than would pay their rent and put some bread and water in their mouths.
At the other end of the spectrum, I have an friend/acquaintance who has seemingly made rather a lot of money out of 'working in sales' - working for a large computer company, selling into businesses. I'm not sure what but the company makes laptops/printers/scanners etc etc but he definitely didn't go to work and make cold calls! He's now retired, holidaying in nice places, driving nice cars, and he's still younger than 55.
I went on holiday a couple of years ago, to a nice place in St Lucia (http://www.thebodyholiday.com) - few hundred £ a night IIRC, and most people we got talking to, including a black chap covered in bling with a gold Rolex Daytona, worked 'in sales'.
Give me a clue... so 'in sales' goes from answering or making phone calls for minimum wage up to... what?
The guy I know was battling it out in court for commission he made on a deal that completed just after he was made redundant that amounted to £270,000, and the company owed him £14k in expenses.
Did this guy start by making phone calls all day with a headset on?
Just a bored Saturday afternoon musing from someone who probably shouldn't have had a Vindaloo last night and therefore can't leave the house.
My brother worked 'in sales' after uni when he couldn't get a job. It involved being sat at a desk all day making cold calls into businesses trying to sell headsets.
A friend of mine worked 'in sales', for a large telecoms company, it involved inbound calls, customer retention, that sort of thing, no real element of sales other than offering them some deals in the hope they don't leave.
Neither of them were particularly well paid, in fact neither of them were given much more than would pay their rent and put some bread and water in their mouths.
At the other end of the spectrum, I have an friend/acquaintance who has seemingly made rather a lot of money out of 'working in sales' - working for a large computer company, selling into businesses. I'm not sure what but the company makes laptops/printers/scanners etc etc but he definitely didn't go to work and make cold calls! He's now retired, holidaying in nice places, driving nice cars, and he's still younger than 55.
I went on holiday a couple of years ago, to a nice place in St Lucia (http://www.thebodyholiday.com) - few hundred £ a night IIRC, and most people we got talking to, including a black chap covered in bling with a gold Rolex Daytona, worked 'in sales'.
Give me a clue... so 'in sales' goes from answering or making phone calls for minimum wage up to... what?
The guy I know was battling it out in court for commission he made on a deal that completed just after he was made redundant that amounted to £270,000, and the company owed him £14k in expenses.
Did this guy start by making phone calls all day with a headset on?
Just a bored Saturday afternoon musing from someone who probably shouldn't have had a Vindaloo last night and therefore can't leave the house.
I work in financial sales - 16 years ago that was cold calling at 8am on a saturday for £12k pa(i.e - s
t) - now, i do the same job (financial sales, not the cold calling....i hire people for that) but make more than 20 times that for a 3 day week.
SO yes - "in sales" covers a lot of jobs and a lot of earnings - the nice thing is, its a pure meritocracy. No one has ever asked me what exams I did at school...they simple say "sell this" and you either can or you cant.
t) - now, i do the same job (financial sales, not the cold calling....i hire people for that) but make more than 20 times that for a 3 day week.SO yes - "in sales" covers a lot of jobs and a lot of earnings - the nice thing is, its a pure meritocracy. No one has ever asked me what exams I did at school...they simple say "sell this" and you either can or you cant.
There are all kinds of Sales jobs out there, so it’s not all about bashing the phone in a call centre.
I currently work in Industrial Capital Sales where the typical system costs over £1,000,000. I get fully expensed business trips around the world - I'm off to Spain next week to meet a potential client. Picture plush hotels, nice restaurant meals and come 5:30pm you can use the pool, drink in the bar, or just explore the town you are in.
I'm fairly pleased with my basic wage (~£45k) plus we get various bonuses though the year. I also get to choose a company car every few years with fuel/insurance/VED/tyres paid for, plus when I'm not flying to sunny places, I work from home most days so I don’t lose 2 hours a day commuting!
I do however need my high level science qualifications (PhD) and sales experience to do this particular job. My first sales job was on much lower wage.
There are some decent sales jobs out there!
I currently work in Industrial Capital Sales where the typical system costs over £1,000,000. I get fully expensed business trips around the world - I'm off to Spain next week to meet a potential client. Picture plush hotels, nice restaurant meals and come 5:30pm you can use the pool, drink in the bar, or just explore the town you are in.
I'm fairly pleased with my basic wage (~£45k) plus we get various bonuses though the year. I also get to choose a company car every few years with fuel/insurance/VED/tyres paid for, plus when I'm not flying to sunny places, I work from home most days so I don’t lose 2 hours a day commuting!
I do however need my high level science qualifications (PhD) and sales experience to do this particular job. My first sales job was on much lower wage.
There are some decent sales jobs out there!
Tiggsy said:
I work in financial sales - 16 years ago that was cold calling at 8am on a saturday for £12k pa(i.e - st) - now, i do the same job (financial sales, not the cold calling....i hire people for that) but make more than 20 times that for a 3 day week.
SO yes - "in sales" covers a lot of jobs and a lot of earnings - the nice thing is, its a pure meritocracy. No one has ever asked me what exams I did at school...they simple say "sell this" and you either can or you cant.
240k for 3 days a week? I'm in the wrong job.t) - now, i do the same job (financial sales, not the cold calling....i hire people for that) but make more than 20 times that for a 3 day week.SO yes - "in sales" covers a lot of jobs and a lot of earnings - the nice thing is, its a pure meritocracy. No one has ever asked me what exams I did at school...they simple say "sell this" and you either can or you cant.
I've worked in sales my whole career.
Generally, there are 2 routes to progress:
1. Move across from a technical discipline
2. Start at the bottom and work up
I began via option 2, where, 18 years or so ago, I was chained to a desk, cold calling companies trying to sell networking kit. We were targeted on 100 calls / 10 conversations / 1 hot lead per day. It was pretty soul destroying stuff, but gave a very solid grounding in influencing.
From there, I took various roles in both large and small companies (always in sales) and have been fortunate enough to travel all around the world selling (I'm currently in negotiation to take a role in either Panama or Malaysia selling to clients in those regions).
It is very possible to make good money in sales if you're good, have the right product set and, most importantly, the right business support systems (both people and processes). The sums your associates talk about are relatively easily attainable if you can get a good differentiated solution to clients who value your proposition.
As much of the money you can make in sales is commission based, you have to be a bit of a risk taker (there is no way I could live off my basic, even though it is pretty reasonable) and drive for the commission. Economic and competitive pressures have a direct impact on your ability to make money. Surrounding yourself with the right people has a direct impact on your ability to make money. Your back office teams ability to keep a customer satisfied has a direct I,pact on your ability to make money etc, etc.
There is a lot of pressure and many people who think they are good really don't cut the mustard, but if you are happy to make a personal investment of time in it and ride the lows as much as the highs, you can do well.
Generally, there are 2 routes to progress:
1. Move across from a technical discipline
2. Start at the bottom and work up
I began via option 2, where, 18 years or so ago, I was chained to a desk, cold calling companies trying to sell networking kit. We were targeted on 100 calls / 10 conversations / 1 hot lead per day. It was pretty soul destroying stuff, but gave a very solid grounding in influencing.
From there, I took various roles in both large and small companies (always in sales) and have been fortunate enough to travel all around the world selling (I'm currently in negotiation to take a role in either Panama or Malaysia selling to clients in those regions).
It is very possible to make good money in sales if you're good, have the right product set and, most importantly, the right business support systems (both people and processes). The sums your associates talk about are relatively easily attainable if you can get a good differentiated solution to clients who value your proposition.
As much of the money you can make in sales is commission based, you have to be a bit of a risk taker (there is no way I could live off my basic, even though it is pretty reasonable) and drive for the commission. Economic and competitive pressures have a direct impact on your ability to make money. Surrounding yourself with the right people has a direct impact on your ability to make money. Your back office teams ability to keep a customer satisfied has a direct I,pact on your ability to make money etc, etc.
There is a lot of pressure and many people who think they are good really don't cut the mustard, but if you are happy to make a personal investment of time in it and ride the lows as much as the highs, you can do well.
I work for a quite specialized market research company - and although most of us have involved and sometimes complex roles, requiring a degree of scientific knowledge and understanding - we are ALL in sales.
Our ethos is similar to Alex Baldwin's in Glengarry Glenross - ABC, always be closing. We spend a lot of time away from home, on the road with our clients and that gives us ample opportunity to sell ourselves as strategists, business advisors and brand managers as well as research vendors.
Despite having to be able to talk to a neuro-surgeon on why he would utilize one form of cranial dural repair matrix over another, or why a consumer might prefer the seat adjustment of a Camaro over a Challenger, without the selling element, those work opportunities wouldn't be available to us. Our 'product' is high value - I just completed a single assignment for a giant pharmaceutical company that was invoiced more than $400k - so it's not like ordinary retail - i.e. we have to sell the concept, rather than merely offer it.
Our ethos is similar to Alex Baldwin's in Glengarry Glenross - ABC, always be closing. We spend a lot of time away from home, on the road with our clients and that gives us ample opportunity to sell ourselves as strategists, business advisors and brand managers as well as research vendors.
Despite having to be able to talk to a neuro-surgeon on why he would utilize one form of cranial dural repair matrix over another, or why a consumer might prefer the seat adjustment of a Camaro over a Challenger, without the selling element, those work opportunities wouldn't be available to us. Our 'product' is high value - I just completed a single assignment for a giant pharmaceutical company that was invoiced more than $400k - so it's not like ordinary retail - i.e. we have to sell the concept, rather than merely offer it.
ABC is true to a certain extent. The number of supposed sales people I have interviewed who don't check back or close during the interview (never mind the end) beggars belief! These are people who look for packages well into 6 figures. Frankly, if you can't transition the conversation into understanding your competitive environment or asking for the role, you won't be selling for me.
Don't even get me started on the number of people who don't research the business Prior to coming to interview....
Don't even get me started on the number of people who don't research the business Prior to coming to interview....
Edited by schmalex on Saturday 29th September 16:59
I am currently doing an Apprenticeship in Sales. I am on £2.60 per hour, but I can live off that for the time bieng. I am very good at my job and enjoy it to a certain degree. I am appreciated by the managers and have been promoted to Team Leader soon after I started.
I would love a job like FreeLitres though.
I would love a job like FreeLitres though.
JayTee94 said:
I am currently doing an Apprenticeship in Sales. I am on £2.60 per hour, but I can live off that for the time bieng. I am very good at my job and enjoy it to a certain degree. I am appreciated by the managers and have been promoted to Team Leader soon after I started.
I would love a job like FreeLitres though.
So you're an apprentice but also a team leader? I assume this is not in the UK since its half of minimum wageI would love a job like FreeLitres though.
otherman said:
So you're an apprentice but also a team leader? I assume this is not in the UK since its half of minimum wage
It wouldn't surprise me if he was in the UK and in charge of other people while being an apprentice - far too many companies are abusing the apprenticeship stuff purely to get cheap staff. One of my friends sons is an apprentice labourer - how the hell can you be an apprentice to an unskilled job...I’m afraid to admit that I used to look down my nose a bit at "Sales people". Before my career went into that direction, the only Sales people I came into contact with were the guys knocking on my door pushing for me to buy new windows or those disinterested “weekend jobbers” in electrical shops who didn’t really understand what they were trying to sell.
Having now met a number of the Highest level managers (MDs, CEOs, etc.), I have noticed that a disproportionately high number of them have come up through the sales side, as these skills of negotiation and influencing play a massive part in Business.
I have come to realise that the ability to “sell” can come in useful in many areas of life – not just at work!
I also believe that there is a mix of Science and Art in selling – there are most definitely techniques you can learn to get better results. There are no natural born salespeople IMO.
Having now met a number of the Highest level managers (MDs, CEOs, etc.), I have noticed that a disproportionately high number of them have come up through the sales side, as these skills of negotiation and influencing play a massive part in Business.
I have come to realise that the ability to “sell” can come in useful in many areas of life – not just at work!
I also believe that there is a mix of Science and Art in selling – there are most definitely techniques you can learn to get better results. There are no natural born salespeople IMO.
Very interesting stuff.
I did my A-Levels, then went onto a degree. Real Estate Management. You start on around £22k a year and work towards being 'chartered'. From there you work your way up. Director level in the company I work for (top 4 in the UK) has you on £70k + bonus if you perform. There's not really much you can expect after that, certainly working for a regional office. Sure, the MD and CEO are earning mega bucks (based in London) but you're still working day in and day out to make money for the company, rather than yourself.
Yet I have a friend who finished his A-Levels, did his degree and got a job in medical sales. 25 years old and bringing in £50k a year basic with uncapped commission.
Seems to me if you have the gift of the gab, a good personality, and the ability to build relationships then sales can make you an awful lot of money.
The brand new BMW and fuel card accounts for an awful lot.
I did my A-Levels, then went onto a degree. Real Estate Management. You start on around £22k a year and work towards being 'chartered'. From there you work your way up. Director level in the company I work for (top 4 in the UK) has you on £70k + bonus if you perform. There's not really much you can expect after that, certainly working for a regional office. Sure, the MD and CEO are earning mega bucks (based in London) but you're still working day in and day out to make money for the company, rather than yourself.
Yet I have a friend who finished his A-Levels, did his degree and got a job in medical sales. 25 years old and bringing in £50k a year basic with uncapped commission.
Seems to me if you have the gift of the gab, a good personality, and the ability to build relationships then sales can make you an awful lot of money.
The brand new BMW and fuel card accounts for an awful lot.
I'm 'in sales' and after a long stint working for a big yellow book company I decided I could no longer live with myself selling dying products to SMEs so I quit. I'm now back in IT (the industry I left when I was poached into the directories market) and pretty much starting again from the bottom. You know what though? I love it, and I can sleep well at night.
It'll take a while but with some hard graft and resilience, I'll be back earning decent wedge soon enough. The thing I love about sales is that it's all about merit. There's nowhere to hide if you're not doing the work, and good hard work is rewarded. I'm not particularly academically-minded but none of that matters so much; if you know your product and your market, you can be successful.
It'll take a while but with some hard graft and resilience, I'll be back earning decent wedge soon enough. The thing I love about sales is that it's all about merit. There's nowhere to hide if you're not doing the work, and good hard work is rewarded. I'm not particularly academically-minded but none of that matters so much; if you know your product and your market, you can be successful.
I think it is fair to post my position and circumstances.
I am in UK, and I work for a reputable company that has good image and plans. There are far worse ways and/or companies for employment and I am happy. Somedays I wish I was on more to make my finances go that little bit further but I look at the bigger picture. I am gaining an NVQ qualification in a safe environment and getting more money than bieng on Dole and a sense of achievement at the end of everyday. I am only 17 but to be appointed a Team Leader was a very good feeling and they said it was down to my attitude. I am wanting to gain more prospective jobs in the future but you cannot complain at someone appreciating the work you do and giving you a base to jump from. Something that a year ago seemed out of reach..
I am in UK, and I work for a reputable company that has good image and plans. There are far worse ways and/or companies for employment and I am happy. Somedays I wish I was on more to make my finances go that little bit further but I look at the bigger picture. I am gaining an NVQ qualification in a safe environment and getting more money than bieng on Dole and a sense of achievement at the end of everyday. I am only 17 but to be appointed a Team Leader was a very good feeling and they said it was down to my attitude. I am wanting to gain more prospective jobs in the future but you cannot complain at someone appreciating the work you do and giving you a base to jump from. Something that a year ago seemed out of reach..
AB said:
Seems to me if you have the gift of the gab, a good personality, and the ability to build relationships then sales can make you an awful lot of money.
I agree with this. I think building good relations and not putting pressure on people to make that one sale also goes a fair way aswell. It has helped me generate nearly £1,000,000 of leads for my current company in ten months. Funk said:
I would disagree with it being about 'the gift of the gab', it's old-school and doesn't work. Sales is more about listening than it is about talking in my view, you just have to ask the right questions.
Agreed.You might be able to sell some low risk, low value stuff by being a cheeky chappie, but for expensive kit/systems the client will need to know how yours is better than the other one. You can only do this by knowing your product and listening, very carefully, to their requirements and reservations.
I disagree with the statement of no natural born salesman. I was selling marbles as a kid and motorbikes from the age of 12. I've done door knocking (yes, I know!) for British Gas and then self employed commission only for a furniture company. I was making between £1000 and £2000 a week on a regular basis.
However, by nature I'm much more of a listener than a talker and I'm nothing like your stereo-typical salesman in either my appearance or attitude.
THIS was my edge
P.s I have never been on any sales courses or read any books on the subject.
However, by nature I'm much more of a listener than a talker and I'm nothing like your stereo-typical salesman in either my appearance or attitude.
THIS was my edge
P.s I have never been on any sales courses or read any books on the subject.
Edited by doosht on Saturday 29th September 17:12
Funk said:
I would disagree with it being about 'the gift of the gab', it's old-school and doesn't work. Sales is more about listening than it is about talking in my view, you just have to ask the right questions.
Maybe what AB meant by the 'gift of the gab' was to listen to then and then return with the right reply. That is how I took it and I agree that listening plays a part. I am selling an unusual thing that is not suitable for everyone so you need to listen to their requirements and objections and have the knowledge of your product to come back with a reply. There's sales people and there's sales people.
Some people do it as a daily wage that holds a little extra for getting lucky every now and again.
Other people do it because they get a buzz out of it and can spot opportunities to sell in every aspect of their working, and sometimes private, lives.
The former go nowhere and moan like hell about their job. The latter are generally pricks to be around.
You have to land somewhere towards the top without over doing it.
The best sales people have all the sales skills and don't outwardly use them.
If you want to get into it, don't sell something faceless you have no interest in. Sell something you are passionate about already, something you can learn about, develop yourself and have a genuine part of you in.
That's what will get you through a tough day of rejection, not some pic of an F40 you're never going to actually own stapled to your phone monkey cage.
I've recently (last 12 months) got back into sales (insurance) after 4 years away and to be honest, it's proving a bit of a drain because it never changes.
Some people do it as a daily wage that holds a little extra for getting lucky every now and again.
Other people do it because they get a buzz out of it and can spot opportunities to sell in every aspect of their working, and sometimes private, lives.
The former go nowhere and moan like hell about their job. The latter are generally pricks to be around.
You have to land somewhere towards the top without over doing it.
The best sales people have all the sales skills and don't outwardly use them.
If you want to get into it, don't sell something faceless you have no interest in. Sell something you are passionate about already, something you can learn about, develop yourself and have a genuine part of you in.
That's what will get you through a tough day of rejection, not some pic of an F40 you're never going to actually own stapled to your phone monkey cage.
I've recently (last 12 months) got back into sales (insurance) after 4 years away and to be honest, it's proving a bit of a drain because it never changes.
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