Company car problems
Discussion
Thought I'd throw this open to the PH massive to see what you think on a situation I am experiencing at work.
I work for a fairly large organisation and have done for 10 years. When I signed my contract, part of my terms were that I was eligible to join the car lease scheme and duly signed up, selling my existing car. I have been a member of the scheme for all this time, changing the car every 3 years. I pay 40% of the lease cost and work contributes the remaining 60%. Quite a good deal and the fact that I contibute towards the lease means that the BIK tax is kept fairly low.
2 years ago they suspended the scheme for new users pending a "review" of the scheme, with the view to cutting the cost. Fair one really, I think we all knew that the days of Audis, Beemers etc were coming to an end and we all made hay while the sun shined. They decided to consult all the scheme users on 2 options, the first being a revised version of the existing scheme (less contribution by the company etc), the second being a direct lease scheme, although this was quickly disregarded as a non-runner. We (around 80 users)replied to the consultation with varying ideas but all agreed on the basic principle of keeping the scheme as we all have to use the cars for work.
We have heard through the grapevine from a reliable source that the company have now decided to do a complete 180 and are now going to discontinue the scheme possibly with immediate effect, leaving 80 people without a car, many unable to go out and buy a car as they budgeted based on the fact that the car leasing scheme was part of their package (it has been in force since the late 80's).
The whole point of being eligible for the scheme is that you needed a car to do your job and now there are many people who will literally be unable to do their job if they have no transport.
Apologies for the long post and the "new" username but I don't know if anyone from my company may be on here and I don't want any issues arising from this.
Very keen to hear anyone's views, opinions and suggestions.
Cheers
I work for a fairly large organisation and have done for 10 years. When I signed my contract, part of my terms were that I was eligible to join the car lease scheme and duly signed up, selling my existing car. I have been a member of the scheme for all this time, changing the car every 3 years. I pay 40% of the lease cost and work contributes the remaining 60%. Quite a good deal and the fact that I contibute towards the lease means that the BIK tax is kept fairly low.
2 years ago they suspended the scheme for new users pending a "review" of the scheme, with the view to cutting the cost. Fair one really, I think we all knew that the days of Audis, Beemers etc were coming to an end and we all made hay while the sun shined. They decided to consult all the scheme users on 2 options, the first being a revised version of the existing scheme (less contribution by the company etc), the second being a direct lease scheme, although this was quickly disregarded as a non-runner. We (around 80 users)replied to the consultation with varying ideas but all agreed on the basic principle of keeping the scheme as we all have to use the cars for work.
We have heard through the grapevine from a reliable source that the company have now decided to do a complete 180 and are now going to discontinue the scheme possibly with immediate effect, leaving 80 people without a car, many unable to go out and buy a car as they budgeted based on the fact that the car leasing scheme was part of their package (it has been in force since the late 80's).
The whole point of being eligible for the scheme is that you needed a car to do your job and now there are many people who will literally be unable to do their job if they have no transport.
Apologies for the long post and the "new" username but I don't know if anyone from my company may be on here and I don't want any issues arising from this.
Very keen to hear anyone's views, opinions and suggestions.
Cheers
Best news you've ever had, get a 3 year old Bm'r the mileage/car allowance off the company a private plate and claim on the IR fixed mileage car scheme. you'll be pounds in pocket and won't be tied to the company because you have to buy a car to leave, this last fact alone was enough for me to give up compnay cars 20 years ago.
Omega man - bad luck.
Unfortunately a lot if companies are looking at cutting overheads. They company knows that most people have cars anyway so they will be relying on people using their own car. It means more cost for you, less for them.
Subject to a consultation process companies can change the T&Cs of your contract at any point so, yes, they can do what they are doing.
Unfortunately a lot if companies are looking at cutting overheads. They company knows that most people have cars anyway so they will be relying on people using their own car. It means more cost for you, less for them.
Subject to a consultation process companies can change the T&Cs of your contract at any point so, yes, they can do what they are doing.
Berw said:
Best news you've ever had, get a 3 year old Bm'r the mileage/car allowance off the company a private plate and claim on the IR fixed mileage car scheme. you'll be pounds in pocket and won't be tied to the company because you have to buy a car to leave, this last fact alone was enough for me to give up compnay cars 20 years ago.
Older car plus hassle of insurance/ maintenance etc. plus the price of petrol has shot up so much that the mileage allowance isn't the "nice little earner" it once was.I think what will happen is that they will end the scheme with immediate effect and anyone on it with leases still left to run will keep the car until the end of the lease. The reality is that as the scheme has been suspended for 2 years, there are a large number of users whose leases are .well and truly up and have been extended on a month by month basis. It is these people who are in the firing line first.
As for the pay cut, I total agree. My P11D says my car is worth over 3 grand to me every year.
The comapany holds t
As for the pay cut, I total agree. My P11D says my car is worth over 3 grand to me every year.
The comapany holds t
I think what will happen is that they will end the scheme with immediate effect and anyone on it with leases still left to run will keep the car until the end of the lease. The reality is that as the scheme has been suspended for 2 years, there are a large number of users whose leases are .well and truly up and have been extended on a month by month basis. It is these people who are in the firing line first.
As for the pay cut, I total agree. My P11D says my car is worth over 3 grand to me every year.
The company holds the leases by the way.
As for the pay cut, I total agree. My P11D says my car is worth over 3 grand to me every year.
The company holds the leases by the way.
The whole point is its MEANT to be a pay cut. That probably isn't a surprise to you.
Having had to implement various changes to contractual T&Cs I'm fairly sure the company is entitled to do it. Companies are able to change contracts if there is a substantive reason for doing so. If you are in a strong union they may be able to agree some ki d of compromise with the Employer.
Having had to implement various changes to contractual T&Cs I'm fairly sure the company is entitled to do it. Companies are able to change contracts if there is a substantive reason for doing so. If you are in a strong union they may be able to agree some ki d of compromise with the Employer.
One of my former employers - a large council removed its lease scheme for all employees - like you, this left lots of people who travelled all over the area for their job in a difficult position. yes they could buy their own car but most couldn't afford a brand new one/reliable one.
i doubt your employment contract is more protective than a councils - so you will have to suck it up.
the next inevtiable thing will be a cut in mileage which the council tried to do but came up against a lot of resistance.
i doubt your employment contract is more protective than a councils - so you will have to suck it up.
the next inevtiable thing will be a cut in mileage which the council tried to do but came up against a lot of resistance.
No allowance on offer other than going back to the (just under)grand a year to cover "wear and tear" on your own car. If you opted to have a leased car then you lost this payment, which is fair enough but even with this being reinstated, I feel I will still be down on the deal by at least 2 grand a year.
My concern is that the company is possibly forcing some employees into finance deals that they either don't want or cannot afford simply so they can continue doing their jobs. If this goes ahead, then I have no doubt that some people will feel that they have to leave their jobs because they simply cannot afford to buy a decent car so they can continue in their positions.
I'm no expert but this could end in a number of constructive dismissal claims.
My concern is that the company is possibly forcing some employees into finance deals that they either don't want or cannot afford simply so they can continue doing their jobs. If this goes ahead, then I have no doubt that some people will feel that they have to leave their jobs because they simply cannot afford to buy a decent car so they can continue in their positions.
I'm no expert but this could end in a number of constructive dismissal claims.
I would be surprised if there is anything in your contract to say you must have your own car and make it available for business use. I see even less chance of them retrospectively adding such a clause if everyone just says they can't afford to do so. If they NEED people to be mobile for work, they should provide company cars, pool cars, or public transport tickets if appropriate.
I had a client (a council) who removed ALL business use of private cars and introduced a number of pool-cars for use on council business. With the removal of the profit-opportunity of a generous p/mile rate for personal cars, the number of "essential business" miles dropped dramatically and provided even greater than expected reductions in costs.
I had a client (a council) who removed ALL business use of private cars and introduced a number of pool-cars for use on council business. With the removal of the profit-opportunity of a generous p/mile rate for personal cars, the number of "essential business" miles dropped dramatically and provided even greater than expected reductions in costs.
Countdown said:
swerni said:
Would seem odd that they could arbitrarily remove, what is part of your package.
You need to seek proper legal advise.
Employers can change pretty much any part of your contract (as long as they follow the rules). You need to seek proper legal advise.
So just tell them that you are not prepared to use your own car for work and that they have to pay for taxis/car hire/public transport so you can do your job.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
True, but they can't retrospectively make you buy and use your own equipment for work when previously they were supplying the equipment. Doesn't matter if it's a car or a chain saw. They can't force you to use your own car. The can do that for new employees, tell them that the job means they will have to use their own car for work, but not you.
I'm prepared to be corrected but I think they can.I was in charge of implementing a Pay & Grading review where, effectively, the previous contracts were abolished and new ones implemented. Lots of "perks" such as Car Allowance, mileage rates, and subsidised meals were removed or reduced. Staff were dismissed from their previous roles and re-employed under different (much worse) contracts. We were allowed to do this under the "some other substantive reason" rule, according to our HR Department. Staff who didn't accept the new contracts were deemed to have taken redundancy and would have received Stat Redundancy Pay.
Given that such a fundamental change wasn't legally challenged by the Unions I would guess that a more minor change would be easier to implement.
Ask what the policy is for business travel expenses whether by taxi or public transport? Then tell them you don't have a car. I can't see any or many contracts stating you must make your car available, but there will possibly be a clause that states a requirement for a valid driving licence.
Omegaman said:
No allowance on offer other than going back to the (just under)grand a year to cover "wear and tear" on your own car. If you opted to have a leased car then you lost this payment, which is fair enough but even with this being reinstated, I feel I will still be down on the deal by at least 2 grand a year.
Are you including the BIK saving in that? You said £3K above, so if you're a 40% tax payer then there's another £1200.Omegaman said:
My concern is that the company is possibly forcing some employees into finance deals that they either don't want or cannot afford simply so they can continue doing their jobs.
In my last big company job they tried to "force" people out of company cars with a chunky allowance which many of the younger people gleefully jumped at as it meant they could have 19" wheels on their 3 Series which they'd always been denied in the past. 
But then they found they couldn't get loans at decent rates and their insurance quotes were horrendous so most of them ended up staying in the company car scheme.
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