Discussion
Hello, I am after some advice and words from the wise please.
Little background on myself before I carry on - I'm 24, I've been in the same job now since I was 17 (Stores/Admin/Customer Service based role in the Police-ish), still live at home, etc. Job pays OK but realistically to achieve my aims in life I need to get a proper career, hence looking at the Merchant Navy.
I am looking at doing the HNC/HND course in Marine Engineering. To do this I actually need to go back and resit some GCSE's as in my slightly wasted school life I tossed off Maths and Science, and I will need to resit them to get the back A-C grade required (although I am not sure if this is a set in stone requirement or just desired?) Either way I think I will enrol on the GCSE college courses before I set my sights on this particular career path just to boost my chances and obviously scrubbing up on my Maths and Physics should help with the job!
Can anyone help with the best route into this line of work? It seems there are three different routes of application (via the shipping companies, through the training organisations or through a scholarship) and I am not sure which would be best. Due to my office background a few people did suggest going for an 'officer' based role instead of engineering.
Any tips, help and advice is really appreciated.
Thanks, Liam
Little background on myself before I carry on - I'm 24, I've been in the same job now since I was 17 (Stores/Admin/Customer Service based role in the Police-ish), still live at home, etc. Job pays OK but realistically to achieve my aims in life I need to get a proper career, hence looking at the Merchant Navy.
I am looking at doing the HNC/HND course in Marine Engineering. To do this I actually need to go back and resit some GCSE's as in my slightly wasted school life I tossed off Maths and Science, and I will need to resit them to get the back A-C grade required (although I am not sure if this is a set in stone requirement or just desired?) Either way I think I will enrol on the GCSE college courses before I set my sights on this particular career path just to boost my chances and obviously scrubbing up on my Maths and Physics should help with the job!
Can anyone help with the best route into this line of work? It seems there are three different routes of application (via the shipping companies, through the training organisations or through a scholarship) and I am not sure which would be best. Due to my office background a few people did suggest going for an 'officer' based role instead of engineering.
Any tips, help and advice is really appreciated.
Thanks, Liam
LiamM45 said:
Hello, I am after some advice and words from the wise please.
Little background on myself before I carry on - I'm 24, I've been in the same job now since I was 17 (Stores/Admin/Customer Service based role in the Police-ish), still live at home, etc. Job pays OK but realistically to achieve my aims in life I need to get a proper career, hence looking at the Merchant Navy.
I am looking at doing the HNC/HND course in Marine Engineering. To do this I actually need to go back and resit some GCSE's as in my slightly wasted school life I tossed off Maths and Science, and I will need to resit them to get the back A-C grade required (although I am not sure if this is a set in stone requirement or just desired?) Either way I think I will enrol on the GCSE college courses before I set my sights on this particular career path just to boost my chances and obviously scrubbing up on my Maths and Physics should help with the job!
Can anyone help with the best route into this line of work? It seems there are three different routes of application (via the shipping companies, through the training organisations or through a scholarship) and I am not sure which would be best. Due to my office background a few people did suggest going for an 'officer' based role instead of engineering.
Any tips, help and advice is really appreciated.
Thanks, Liam
I looked into this a few months ago. You need at least 4 GCSE's with a C grade or better. I'd recomend looking at Universaty's that do Marine Engineering. Once you've completed the HNC/HND you'll have the rank of 4th Officer, once you get a job in that field.Little background on myself before I carry on - I'm 24, I've been in the same job now since I was 17 (Stores/Admin/Customer Service based role in the Police-ish), still live at home, etc. Job pays OK but realistically to achieve my aims in life I need to get a proper career, hence looking at the Merchant Navy.
I am looking at doing the HNC/HND course in Marine Engineering. To do this I actually need to go back and resit some GCSE's as in my slightly wasted school life I tossed off Maths and Science, and I will need to resit them to get the back A-C grade required (although I am not sure if this is a set in stone requirement or just desired?) Either way I think I will enrol on the GCSE college courses before I set my sights on this particular career path just to boost my chances and obviously scrubbing up on my Maths and Physics should help with the job!
Can anyone help with the best route into this line of work? It seems there are three different routes of application (via the shipping companies, through the training organisations or through a scholarship) and I am not sure which would be best. Due to my office background a few people did suggest going for an 'officer' based role instead of engineering.
Any tips, help and advice is really appreciated.
Thanks, Liam
GCSE's won't be a problem once I resit my old ones.
I think I prefer the idea of learning on the job - hence applying directly to the shipping companies rather than looking straight at Universities. I am not the best academically, I prefer to learn hands on rather than through books, etc.
I would love to hear from anyone who has been through the process and is now in this line of work?
I think I prefer the idea of learning on the job - hence applying directly to the shipping companies rather than looking straight at Universities. I am not the best academically, I prefer to learn hands on rather than through books, etc.
I would love to hear from anyone who has been through the process and is now in this line of work?
At 24 you might find you've missed the boat, so to speak, as the main route into the industry for someone with no experience is a cadetship. 25 tends to be the cut-off point, written or otherwise. There are other routes in, but cadetships are the ones most companies prefer and give preference too.
If you absolutely have to do this and there's no talking you out of it, be prepared for the fact that if you do get in, it certainly will be academic - while you do seatime and practical stuff, you also do a lot of classroom time, and there's a hefty amount of maths and physics involved.
It's not PHD level stuff, but if you describe yourself as academically challenged, it's something to consider.
Also worth noting is the fact you've got 3 years of earning chump change while you spend your days with teenagers, most of who will be 16-18 at the start of phase 1 and while it's not always a nightmare, it has it's moments.
Once you've got that out of the way there's plenty of jobs, the money's OK with 20-25k being the norm, the tax is avoidable, the work is crap, the amount of leave is brilliant, most of the ships are dry (as in no booze), and every year that passes sees a little bit more of what makes it a great lifestyle eroded, honestly.
I certainly wouldn't go back to sea unless I absolutely had to, and even then i'd be back on rigs long before I was back on ships.
If you absolutely have to do this and there's no talking you out of it, be prepared for the fact that if you do get in, it certainly will be academic - while you do seatime and practical stuff, you also do a lot of classroom time, and there's a hefty amount of maths and physics involved.
It's not PHD level stuff, but if you describe yourself as academically challenged, it's something to consider.
Also worth noting is the fact you've got 3 years of earning chump change while you spend your days with teenagers, most of who will be 16-18 at the start of phase 1 and while it's not always a nightmare, it has it's moments.
Once you've got that out of the way there's plenty of jobs, the money's OK with 20-25k being the norm, the tax is avoidable, the work is crap, the amount of leave is brilliant, most of the ships are dry (as in no booze), and every year that passes sees a little bit more of what makes it a great lifestyle eroded, honestly.
I certainly wouldn't go back to sea unless I absolutely had to, and even then i'd be back on rigs long before I was back on ships.
I started a foundation degree course when I was 19 (23 now) and have been qualified for about a year now and currently work on cruise ships as a 3rd engineer. I disagree with a few things mentioned above but will give you my take on things.
As far as I was aware there was two ways to go about getting your ticket. Either go to university and get a relevant degree then once finished fast track through the MCA requirements (workshop skills, completing your portfolio at sea and then the Oral exam), or apply for training programmes. In my experience it doesnt matter whether you go with a training organisation or a shipping company you'll end up in the same place, my class was made up mostly of people with clyde marine but also some from the likes of carnival and maersk, only difference being who pays you and takes you on for sea time.
Can't remember much about the entry requirements, I was at uni originally doing mechanical engineering so had highers (scottish equivalent of A-levels) in the subjects needed, hence getting put on the foundation degree course, which basically ran alongside the HND but included a few extra subjects in stuff like leadership and management, had a final project in the last phase which i think was different and gives you exemptions from your seconds and chiefs exams. Still come out with exactly the same ticket though.
Age wise i would say it was a decent mix, in my class anyway. the majority of people were around my age when we started, so 18-20, but there were also maybe 4 or 5 guys (just over 20 in a class) who were mid 20s and i know of a few people in that year who were closer to 30 when we finished.
Work wise it can get quite tough but I reckon most people if they really want to can put in the work to get through. You do stuff like thermodynamics, materials, three phase electrics and maths, which i would say were the hardest, and then Marine engineering practice which is more about what youll actually be doing when you go to sea.
Getting a job seems to be realtively easy or I might have just gotten lucky. Some sponsor companies will take you on when you qualify and some won't, I turned down the offer from mine and went for cruise ships, i think from the first interview to stepping on the ship was about a month and that including getting a couple of visas. The work I find to be ok once you get used to the hours and not all ships are dry so you can get a drink in the evening although the limit is the drink drive limit and zero-tolerance if your caught above it. Cant comment on how its changed from the "good old days" but the ship im on is pretty social and theres always people about so the only times i sit in my cabin on my own is through choice to get a rest or catch up on sleep.
As far as I was aware there was two ways to go about getting your ticket. Either go to university and get a relevant degree then once finished fast track through the MCA requirements (workshop skills, completing your portfolio at sea and then the Oral exam), or apply for training programmes. In my experience it doesnt matter whether you go with a training organisation or a shipping company you'll end up in the same place, my class was made up mostly of people with clyde marine but also some from the likes of carnival and maersk, only difference being who pays you and takes you on for sea time.
Can't remember much about the entry requirements, I was at uni originally doing mechanical engineering so had highers (scottish equivalent of A-levels) in the subjects needed, hence getting put on the foundation degree course, which basically ran alongside the HND but included a few extra subjects in stuff like leadership and management, had a final project in the last phase which i think was different and gives you exemptions from your seconds and chiefs exams. Still come out with exactly the same ticket though.
Age wise i would say it was a decent mix, in my class anyway. the majority of people were around my age when we started, so 18-20, but there were also maybe 4 or 5 guys (just over 20 in a class) who were mid 20s and i know of a few people in that year who were closer to 30 when we finished.
Work wise it can get quite tough but I reckon most people if they really want to can put in the work to get through. You do stuff like thermodynamics, materials, three phase electrics and maths, which i would say were the hardest, and then Marine engineering practice which is more about what youll actually be doing when you go to sea.
Getting a job seems to be realtively easy or I might have just gotten lucky. Some sponsor companies will take you on when you qualify and some won't, I turned down the offer from mine and went for cruise ships, i think from the first interview to stepping on the ship was about a month and that including getting a couple of visas. The work I find to be ok once you get used to the hours and not all ships are dry so you can get a drink in the evening although the limit is the drink drive limit and zero-tolerance if your caught above it. Cant comment on how its changed from the "good old days" but the ship im on is pretty social and theres always people about so the only times i sit in my cabin on my own is through choice to get a rest or catch up on sleep.
I'd advise a look at the Royal Navy or the Royal Fleet Auxillary (civvies that keep the RN replenished at sea) as well.
Two routes to go as a clankie in the RN, either Officer or Engineering Technician (ET) as unfortunately the Artificers have now been binned. You'll get a foundation degree eventually as an ET but only once you've reached Petty Officer, if you're keen and switched on it won't take forever.
Job will be pretty hands on as an ET until you make Warrant Officer, as an Officer expect to manage rather than fix stuff although that said the clankie ones aren't shy of putting on overalls.
The RFA are Merchant Navy even though the ships are grey, they have Officers and Motormen. Job responsibilities are much the same as RN except the Officers are very much hands on fixing stuff wheras the motormen do the lower level jobs.
Got to be worth a look in the careers office if you are thinking of becoming a mariner as contrary to popular belief the RN are currently recruiting in the engineering branches. The cruise companies also recruit quite heavily from the RN so could be a good first step in your career, good luck it can be a hard life but well worth it.
Two routes to go as a clankie in the RN, either Officer or Engineering Technician (ET) as unfortunately the Artificers have now been binned. You'll get a foundation degree eventually as an ET but only once you've reached Petty Officer, if you're keen and switched on it won't take forever.
Job will be pretty hands on as an ET until you make Warrant Officer, as an Officer expect to manage rather than fix stuff although that said the clankie ones aren't shy of putting on overalls.
The RFA are Merchant Navy even though the ships are grey, they have Officers and Motormen. Job responsibilities are much the same as RN except the Officers are very much hands on fixing stuff wheras the motormen do the lower level jobs.
Got to be worth a look in the careers office if you are thinking of becoming a mariner as contrary to popular belief the RN are currently recruiting in the engineering branches. The cruise companies also recruit quite heavily from the RN so could be a good first step in your career, good luck it can be a hard life but well worth it.
Edited by wal 45 on Monday 6th August 20:00
thank you for the advice chaps.
I will consider the Royal Navy, I did put it off slightly as I didn't think they would be recruiting with all the cuts I have seen. What are the physical/fitness requirements like for joining the Navy? I am fairly fit, used to be keen on the gym but haven't kept it up over the past 6 months, might need to get back in shape.
When I said I was academically not too great, I was slightly exaggerating, I can do the work (I'm not particularly stupid!) I just lack the attention skills for subjects I have no interest in - for example in school I loved English and Physics, and did well in those, but hated Chemistry, Biology and Maths, so did quite poorly in those subjects because I found girls and mates much more interesting...
Anything, ANYTHING, to get me out of the dead end job I am in would be great really, if it involves any travelling that's a huge bonus - I might as well do it while I am young and have no ties as such. Below average wage, 60hr weeks, dealing with the darling's of society all day, you have to love working in the public sector!
I will consider the Royal Navy, I did put it off slightly as I didn't think they would be recruiting with all the cuts I have seen. What are the physical/fitness requirements like for joining the Navy? I am fairly fit, used to be keen on the gym but haven't kept it up over the past 6 months, might need to get back in shape.
When I said I was academically not too great, I was slightly exaggerating, I can do the work (I'm not particularly stupid!) I just lack the attention skills for subjects I have no interest in - for example in school I loved English and Physics, and did well in those, but hated Chemistry, Biology and Maths, so did quite poorly in those subjects because I found girls and mates much more interesting...
Anything, ANYTHING, to get me out of the dead end job I am in would be great really, if it involves any travelling that's a huge bonus - I might as well do it while I am young and have no ties as such. Below average wage, 60hr weeks, dealing with the darling's of society all day, you have to love working in the public sector!
LiamM45 said:
thank you for the advice chaps.
I will consider the Royal Navy, I did put it off slightly as I didn't think they would be recruiting with all the cuts I have seen. What are the physical/fitness requirements like for joining the Navy? I am fairly fit, used to be keen on the gym but haven't kept it up over the past 6 months, might need to get back in shape.
When I said I was academically not too great, I was slightly exaggerating, I can do the work (I'm not particularly stupid!) I just lack the attention skills for subjects I have no interest in - for example in school I loved English and Physics, and did well in those, but hated Chemistry, Biology and Maths, so did quite poorly in those subjects because I found girls and mates much more interesting...
Anything, ANYTHING, to get me out of the dead end job I am in would be great really, if it involves any travelling that's a huge bonus - I might as well do it while I am young and have no ties as such. Below average wage, 60hr weeks, dealing with the darling's of society all day, you have to love working in the public sector!
First you must pass an eye exam, then a medical. I did my RN fitness test in March. I'm 25 and had to run on a treadmill for 2.4 kilometres (1.5 miles) I had to do it in 11 minute 38 seconds on a 2% incline, I did it in 10:47. It sounds easy, but it wasn't really. A year or so ago I would really struggle to that. There is also a 4 day course where again you must pass the running test, a swimming test and get as close as you can to a set amount of press ups and sit ups. You just have to be aware that if you apply at 25, you may well be hitting 27-28+ before you join, if successful. And for engineering that's pushing the age limit I believe. I applied 2 years ago... and I'm not sure when I'm going in. Speak to your AFCO first of all.I will consider the Royal Navy, I did put it off slightly as I didn't think they would be recruiting with all the cuts I have seen. What are the physical/fitness requirements like for joining the Navy? I am fairly fit, used to be keen on the gym but haven't kept it up over the past 6 months, might need to get back in shape.
When I said I was academically not too great, I was slightly exaggerating, I can do the work (I'm not particularly stupid!) I just lack the attention skills for subjects I have no interest in - for example in school I loved English and Physics, and did well in those, but hated Chemistry, Biology and Maths, so did quite poorly in those subjects because I found girls and mates much more interesting...
Anything, ANYTHING, to get me out of the dead end job I am in would be great really, if it involves any travelling that's a huge bonus - I might as well do it while I am young and have no ties as such. Below average wage, 60hr weeks, dealing with the darling's of society all day, you have to love working in the public sector!
Unfortunately it is the common perception that the RN aren't recruiting, while it is true in some areas engineering are taking the right people and will continue to do so. If you notice the advertising campaign this year has been for RN Engineer and Royal Marine.....
I won't do the hard sell as there have ben plenty of RN threads on here but give it a look, 9-5 and dead end it certainly isn't!
I won't do the hard sell as there have ben plenty of RN threads on here but give it a look, 9-5 and dead end it certainly isn't!
Be prepared for hard work, both in the classroom and onboard ship. If you do join the Merchant Navy prepare to stick with it, ideally up to Chief Engineer level, and try to get experience working on different vessel types and trades as experience is king when looking for a shore job later.
I went to sea at sixteen and now in my late 30s I am enjoying the fruits of working hard at sea when I was younger; enduring all those long trips / the long hours / the lack of social life / very hard work etc. mean I now have an excellent shore job where I'm employed purely for my marine knowledge.
I went to sea at sixteen and now in my late 30s I am enjoying the fruits of working hard at sea when I was younger; enduring all those long trips / the long hours / the lack of social life / very hard work etc. mean I now have an excellent shore job where I'm employed purely for my marine knowledge.
wal 45 said:
Unfortunately it is the common perception that the RN aren't recruiting, while it is true in some areas engineering are taking the right people and will continue to do so.
As far as I'm aware they are recruiting for most roles, but some waiting lists are up at 4 years. I'm going for CIS, that's around 24 months from passing RT (March 2011 for me) I hope to be in come next summer.Popeyed said:
Be prepared for hard work, both in the classroom and onboard ship. If you do join the Merchant Navy prepare to stick with it, ideally up to Chief Engineer level, and try to get experience working on different vessel types and trades as experience is king when looking for a shore job later.
I went to sea at sixteen and now in my late 30s I am enjoying the fruits of working hard at sea when I was younger; enduring all those long trips / the long hours / the lack of social life / very hard work etc. mean I now have an excellent shore job where I'm employed purely for my marine knowledge.
I went to sea at sixteen and now in my late 30s I am enjoying the fruits of working hard at sea when I was younger; enduring all those long trips / the long hours / the lack of social life / very hard work etc. mean I now have an excellent shore job where I'm employed purely for my marine knowledge.
I have a number of friends in the merchant (3rd engineers and above) and they spend so much time on facebook and various other web entertainment it certainly does not seem hard work. Perhaps it is unique to the sector they are in. Not saying it was not hard work for entry though.
Tyrewrecker said:
I have a number of friends in the merchant (3rd engineers and above) and they spend so much time on facebook and various other web entertainment it certainly does not seem hard work. Perhaps it is unique to the sector they are in. Not saying it was not hard work for entry though.
I'm assuming your friends work on cruise ships as most other vessel types do not have internet.
Popeyed said:
After four months on a bulker, anchor handler, VLCC etc. working 8 to 12 hours a day / 7 days a week you will have a very good understanding of what hard work is.
I'm assuming your friends work on cruise ships as most other vessel types do not have internet.
Not sure, whatever it is he is always online. I have spent >3months holiday on nightshift on a rig which was very warm (Ghana + Iraq) and also the extreme oppose it very cold areas (Russia), so, yes, I already have a good understanding of 'work'.I'm assuming your friends work on cruise ships as most other vessel types do not have internet.
They are mostly on 4/4, 5/5.
Thank you for the excellent advice chaps.
I'm off work for a couple of weeks now, so I think I'll call in to my Forces Career Office and have a chat with the people in there. I understand there is a wait to join the Army, a young lad at work has applied but isn't expect any response in the coming months - and his Dad, ex forces, has told him to forget about it.
My problem always has been that I am in a hard working, yet quite cushty job. We get plenty of time off and we have job security, but the pay in comparisom to the workload is dire. A few officers at work have suggested I join the Police but that is a serious last resort for myself, I've had enough of criminals shouting, screaming, swearing, threatening and in a few cases attempt to attack us; I don't want to make a career out of it! (I have a lot of respect for those who do though!)
I'm off work for a couple of weeks now, so I think I'll call in to my Forces Career Office and have a chat with the people in there. I understand there is a wait to join the Army, a young lad at work has applied but isn't expect any response in the coming months - and his Dad, ex forces, has told him to forget about it.
My problem always has been that I am in a hard working, yet quite cushty job. We get plenty of time off and we have job security, but the pay in comparisom to the workload is dire. A few officers at work have suggested I join the Police but that is a serious last resort for myself, I've had enough of criminals shouting, screaming, swearing, threatening and in a few cases attempt to attack us; I don't want to make a career out of it! (I have a lot of respect for those who do though!)
This is all IMHO, so take it with a pinch of salt. I applied for the RN, but eventually went for a traditional Merchant Navy Cadetship, at South Tyneside College (quite frankly, the best place to do one, a good college and a massive pissup in one)
I'm really glad I did, the money is massively better, no uniform, no being shouted at by a mong with stripes, no fitness requirements, go to more interesting places, work with people from around the world, no tax. The downside is being away from home for three quarters of the year and the job can be harder in some respects, I was in charge of a supertanker engine room for 8 hours at 21, with just a twice convicted rapist Filipino oiler for company. He didn't speak any English and spent the whole time making knives.
The only thing I would have changed was the stream, I would have taken combined deck/engineering rather than engineering. The course is a year longer but the opportunities are exponentially better.
I'm really glad I did, the money is massively better, no uniform, no being shouted at by a mong with stripes, no fitness requirements, go to more interesting places, work with people from around the world, no tax. The downside is being away from home for three quarters of the year and the job can be harder in some respects, I was in charge of a supertanker engine room for 8 hours at 21, with just a twice convicted rapist Filipino oiler for company. He didn't speak any English and spent the whole time making knives.
The only thing I would have changed was the stream, I would have taken combined deck/engineering rather than engineering. The course is a year longer but the opportunities are exponentially better.
sooperscoop said:
This is all IMHO, so take it with a pinch of salt. I applied for the RN, but eventually went for a traditional Merchant Navy Cadetship, at South Tyneside College (quite frankly, the best place to do one, a good college and a massive pissup in one)
I'm really glad I did, the money is massively better, no uniform, no being shouted at by a mong with stripes, no fitness requirements, go to more interesting places, work with people from around the world, no tax. The downside is being away from home for three quarters of the year and the job can be harder in some respects, I was in charge of a supertanker engine room for 8 hours at 21, with just a twice convicted rapist Filipino oiler for company. He didn't speak any English and spent the whole time making knives.
The only thing I would have changed was the stream, I would have taken combined deck/engineering rather than engineering. The course is a year longer but the opportunities are exponentially better.
Interesting, can I ask how old you were when you did this? South Tyneside is also handly for me as I am only down the road in Middlesbrough.I'm really glad I did, the money is massively better, no uniform, no being shouted at by a mong with stripes, no fitness requirements, go to more interesting places, work with people from around the world, no tax. The downside is being away from home for three quarters of the year and the job can be harder in some respects, I was in charge of a supertanker engine room for 8 hours at 21, with just a twice convicted rapist Filipino oiler for company. He didn't speak any English and spent the whole time making knives.
The only thing I would have changed was the stream, I would have taken combined deck/engineering rather than engineering. The course is a year longer but the opportunities are exponentially better.
See, I never realised the Merchant Navy was mainly 16/17/18 year olds. I never even knew about it until a lad at work mentioned his mate (late 20s, possibly late 30s) who had joined after being frontline soldier in the Army and that he was quite enjoying the work.
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