Bullying in the workplace....
Discussion
My girlfriend works in a branch of an wholesaler as an accounts ledger. She started working there two years ago as a trainee and has progressed nicely, she enjoys her job generally except for one issue.
There is a woman in her office who took an instant dislike to her and has made her life difficult since she started there. My GF was told by other employees that this woman has single handedly forced 4-5 other people out of a job over the years and can be a nasty bit of work.
My GF initally took the tough stand point and refused to let this woman do the same to her and just ignored it, but recently it has become to much for her. She will talk to other people on the phone about my GF, while not specifically mentioning her name, saying nasty things so that the GF can hear. She constantly bad mouthes my GF to the boss even though my GF works very hard and has been praised by external auditors on numerous occasions. She will bump into her on purpose and constantly criticises her work and does things that intentionally make the GF's job more difficult.
Initally the GF could deal with it and just let it slide, but recently it has been getting too much for her and the doctor has put her on anti-depressants and signed her off for 4 weeks.
She has spoken to her manager on numerous occasions and he has just palmed her off. He has warned this woman once officially a few months back, but she just burst into tears and claimed she was stressed at home and she didn't mean to come across as nasty.
After seeing the doctor yesterday, the GF went to see her manager again and explain the situation. His only suggestion was that it would only stop when one of them left.... and then proceeded to ask my GF if she had any plans to change jobs, not that he wants her to leave, but he can't do anything unless this woman does some thing drastic.
Now I've told the GF to keep a record of everything that this woman says or does and also any comments from her manager. I've advised her to contact HR and go above her manager or call the company whistle blowing line.
I'm a manager myself and I can't believe the attitude her manager has taken with this whole issue. It's like everybody in the office is scared of her and won't do anything about it.
Does anybody have any experience in this or what would be a good course of action?
A few other points:
Having never experienced this before I have no idea what she should do. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated...
There is a woman in her office who took an instant dislike to her and has made her life difficult since she started there. My GF was told by other employees that this woman has single handedly forced 4-5 other people out of a job over the years and can be a nasty bit of work.
My GF initally took the tough stand point and refused to let this woman do the same to her and just ignored it, but recently it has become to much for her. She will talk to other people on the phone about my GF, while not specifically mentioning her name, saying nasty things so that the GF can hear. She constantly bad mouthes my GF to the boss even though my GF works very hard and has been praised by external auditors on numerous occasions. She will bump into her on purpose and constantly criticises her work and does things that intentionally make the GF's job more difficult.
Initally the GF could deal with it and just let it slide, but recently it has been getting too much for her and the doctor has put her on anti-depressants and signed her off for 4 weeks.
She has spoken to her manager on numerous occasions and he has just palmed her off. He has warned this woman once officially a few months back, but she just burst into tears and claimed she was stressed at home and she didn't mean to come across as nasty.
After seeing the doctor yesterday, the GF went to see her manager again and explain the situation. His only suggestion was that it would only stop when one of them left.... and then proceeded to ask my GF if she had any plans to change jobs, not that he wants her to leave, but he can't do anything unless this woman does some thing drastic.
Now I've told the GF to keep a record of everything that this woman says or does and also any comments from her manager. I've advised her to contact HR and go above her manager or call the company whistle blowing line.
I'm a manager myself and I can't believe the attitude her manager has taken with this whole issue. It's like everybody in the office is scared of her and won't do anything about it.
Does anybody have any experience in this or what would be a good course of action?
A few other points:
- The GF is very non-confrontational and lacks in confidence, so punching or b
hing back to the woman is not an option (I suggested this)
- The GF has slowly been given more of the womans work, as the woman is st at her job.
- The woman mentioned to the GF early days that she disliked her because she was younger and took the attention in a male orientated enviroment.
Having never experienced this before I have no idea what she should do. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated...
Get local PH members to harrass the woman??
Useful advice nice, if your GF returns to work, can she use a hidden tape recorder (cue James Bond jokes) to get physical evidence that the woman is talking about her,withuot actually saying your GF's name?
Also, get evidence of how much work your other half does in comparision, get the facts and things which can be proved??
Useful advice nice, if your GF returns to work, can she use a hidden tape recorder (cue James Bond jokes) to get physical evidence that the woman is talking about her,withuot actually saying your GF's name?
Also, get evidence of how much work your other half does in comparision, get the facts and things which can be proved??
Ask for a copy of the company greviance procedure.
This can be used if the line manager has failed to resolve the situation to the employee's satisfaction. This would appear to be the case. An investigator is normally appointed and he/she provides a report to a senior manager, this will be then acted upon.
If the 'lady' in question has admitted to being stressed, then the company should also be supporting her (the lady) and maybe offering her other roles or at the end of a very long road, severance.
P.S. Be careful of heresay..
This can be used if the line manager has failed to resolve the situation to the employee's satisfaction. This would appear to be the case. An investigator is normally appointed and he/she provides a report to a senior manager, this will be then acted upon.
If the 'lady' in question has admitted to being stressed, then the company should also be supporting her (the lady) and maybe offering her other roles or at the end of a very long road, severance.
P.S. Be careful of heresay..
As above, a grievance may be the way forward. Have specific examples of the woman's behaviour (time / date / witnesses / what was said / done etc). Also get a copy of the company's bullying and harassment policy.
Your GF needs to be strong enough to raise it with her line manager, but to also expect repercussions and more nastiness from the woman when she finds out - all of which can be used as further examples of repeated bullying.
Your GF needs to be strong enough to raise it with her line manager, but to also expect repercussions and more nastiness from the woman when she finds out - all of which can be used as further examples of repeated bullying.
I completely sympathies as I've suffered direct verbal bullying at work, too. I've been called most names under the sun not only on a 1-2-1 basis but also in front of other work colleagues. It's such a difficult situation to tackle as you're permanently worried, not only about your job, but what the person giving the abuse will end up doing to make your life even worse. It had such an effect on me that I felt sick and anxious every day going to work and lost all my confidence. I never thought I would be on the receiving end aged 37 and twenty years experience in my profession.
My advice is write everything down including date, time and what is said. That way if you do take this further, you'll have everything you need to make a case. If you read into the law about practices in the work place, you'll find you're backed up all the way.
It isn't going to be easy to deal with this if your GF decides to pursue, especially as she has had so much to put up with so far. Try to be as understanding as you can as most partners think that this is just a boss getting frustrated. In most bullying cases you find the person giving the abuse is going through personal problems at home or is under immense pressure at work. Nevertheless, this shouldn't be an excuse for such poor behavior.
Fact is bullying happens, as I've experienced first hand and it needs to be stopped. Do all you can to help her and I wish her luck in pursuing this.
My advice is write everything down including date, time and what is said. That way if you do take this further, you'll have everything you need to make a case. If you read into the law about practices in the work place, you'll find you're backed up all the way.
It isn't going to be easy to deal with this if your GF decides to pursue, especially as she has had so much to put up with so far. Try to be as understanding as you can as most partners think that this is just a boss getting frustrated. In most bullying cases you find the person giving the abuse is going through personal problems at home or is under immense pressure at work. Nevertheless, this shouldn't be an excuse for such poor behavior.
Fact is bullying happens, as I've experienced first hand and it needs to be stopped. Do all you can to help her and I wish her luck in pursuing this.
My advice? Move on.
The company are quite simply not worth the effort.
We had an office bully. He then started bullying me, I simply ignored it. He would back off for a while but then come back twice as hard as before. I had unofficially verbally complained about him before but in the end I simply had enough of the and lodged a formal grievance against him. The letter was 6 pages long and supported by 197 pages of evidence.
What happened? Well after taking three and a half months to investigate instead of being dismissed for gross misconduct he got a slap on the wrist. I was formally told by my of a manager that he would prefer if any complaint in future was dealt with more informally, that’s right, I got the impression that they didn’t even read my letter or any of the evidence I submitted. At this point I knew I had to leave.
I did and I’m so much happier.
The company are quite simply not worth the effort.
We had an office bully. He then started bullying me, I simply ignored it. He would back off for a while but then come back twice as hard as before. I had unofficially verbally complained about him before but in the end I simply had enough of the
and lodged a formal grievance against him. The letter was 6 pages long and supported by 197 pages of evidence.What happened? Well after taking three and a half months to investigate instead of being dismissed for gross misconduct he got a slap on the wrist. I was formally told by my
of a manager that he would prefer if any complaint in future was dealt with more informally, that’s right, I got the impression that they didn’t even read my letter or any of the evidence I submitted. At this point I knew I had to leave.I did and I’m so much happier.
Thanks for the replies guys.
Most of the replies seem to echo the advice I've given to the GF already and some of the experiences sound very similar. The manager comes across as a lazy wker who just wants the quiet life and being a manager myself, it boils my piss...
I'll get her to request a copy of the grievance policy and to continue to record any further incidents. It's bad enough that she is being mentally bullied by this woman, but the business take the absolute piss as well. My GF is 20, just finished her business admin course with the company, works 7:30am to 5:30pm Monday to Friday doing the invoicing for the business and yet gets paid £11,600 a year salary...!
She spoke to her manager a few months ago about a payrise now she has completed her course and, after a couple of months draging his heels, he walked past her in the corridor and said "I've sorted your payrise, you've been given an extra £1,600 to bring you up to £13,000 a year. You can't negoitate it as it has already gone through. Bye".
Seriously? How fking unprofessional is this company?
Needless to say, the GF is working on her CV at the moment and will start looking for a new job in the next few months. It's just a complete joke though. It seems to be the victim that is being pushed out of the company, rather than the bh that is causing all the trouble...
Most of the replies seem to echo the advice I've given to the GF already and some of the experiences sound very similar. The manager comes across as a lazy w
ker who just wants the quiet life and being a manager myself, it boils my piss...I'll get her to request a copy of the grievance policy and to continue to record any further incidents. It's bad enough that she is being mentally bullied by this woman, but the business take the absolute piss as well. My GF is 20, just finished her business admin course with the company, works 7:30am to 5:30pm Monday to Friday doing the invoicing for the business and yet gets paid £11,600 a year salary...!
She spoke to her manager a few months ago about a payrise now she has completed her course and, after a couple of months draging his heels, he walked past her in the corridor and said "I've sorted your payrise, you've been given an extra £1,600 to bring you up to £13,000 a year. You can't negoitate it as it has already gone through. Bye".
Seriously? How f
king unprofessional is this company?Needless to say, the GF is working on her CV at the moment and will start looking for a new job in the next few months. It's just a complete joke though. It seems to be the victim that is being pushed out of the company, rather than the b
h that is causing all the trouble...Even though she is currently off sick, your girlfriend can still lodge a grievance. She needs to be specific about what has happened and what she would like done about it.
If she is unhappy with the response, then she can escalate the case to a senior manager. The fact that her immediate manager seems to be a bit of a wuss in dealing with this should not prevent a senior manager dealing with it correctly.
I have never ignored a grievance put before me, and people have been disciplined as a result. Also, any investigation would be done quickly and thoroughly. Not every company sweeps these things under the carpet.
If she is unhappy with the response, then she can escalate the case to a senior manager. The fact that her immediate manager seems to be a bit of a wuss in dealing with this should not prevent a senior manager dealing with it correctly.
I have never ignored a grievance put before me, and people have been disciplined as a result. Also, any investigation would be done quickly and thoroughly. Not every company sweeps these things under the carpet.
Lotus Notes said:
If the 'lady' in question has admitted to being stressed, then the company should also be supporting her (the lady) and maybe offering her other roles or at the end of a very long road, severance.
P.S. Be careful of heresay..
The manager has told my GF that the woman in question is dealing with stress at home as her mother suffers from alzheimer's. I do feel bad for her as I know what it's like to see this happen to a family member, but that is no excuse to bully people in the workplace.P.S. Be careful of heresay..
My GF had to deal with her 18 yo sister dying of cancer 4 years ago and still gets very upset about it, but she doesn't feel the need to upset people at work. It's very much a case of age discrimination in my eyes. They have said in a very round about way that it would be easier if my GF was to leave as she is younger and will find it easier to get another job.
Firefoot said:
Even though she is currently off sick, your girlfriend can still lodge a grievance. She needs to be specific about what has happened and what she would like done about it.
If she is unhappy with the response, then she can escalate the case to a senior manager. The fact that her immediate manager seems to be a bit of a wuss in dealing with this should not prevent a senior manager dealing with it correctly.
I have never ignored a grievance put before me, and people have been disciplined as a result. Also, any investigation would be done quickly and thoroughly. Not every company sweeps these things under the carpet.
She has agreed with work to work until the end of this week in order for her to bring her workload up to date. A huge mistake in my eyes as she should be off work with immediate effect, but her manager has a knack for convincing her to work above and beyond her paygrade and my GF is easily guilted ito it. Partly because of her nature and also because she feels indebted to the company for giving her an apprenticeship. I've explained to her that companies actually receive government support for taking on trainees and she is paid peanuts, so she doesn't owe them anything. If she is unhappy with the response, then she can escalate the case to a senior manager. The fact that her immediate manager seems to be a bit of a wuss in dealing with this should not prevent a senior manager dealing with it correctly.
I have never ignored a grievance put before me, and people have been disciplined as a result. Also, any investigation would be done quickly and thoroughly. Not every company sweeps these things under the carpet.
I total agree the manager is a total pussy. He seems more concerned with giving himself the easy life rather than dealing with staff problems. How the hell these people become managers I never know....
Take it to a bigger boss...
At 20 it is very difficult to deal with the office politics, but she should
Speak directly to the bully, tell them that their behavior is totally unprofessional, and that bhing about someone else isn't an acceptable way to manage their own feelings.
Second speak to the manager, tell them that if the situation isn't resolved then a formal complaint will be made and that both HR and more senior managers will be made aware both of the bullying and the inadequecies of the response from you.
stick to it !
At 20 it is very difficult to deal with the office politics, but she should
Speak directly to the bully, tell them that their behavior is totally unprofessional, and that b
hing about someone else isn't an acceptable way to manage their own feelings. Second speak to the manager, tell them that if the situation isn't resolved then a formal complaint will be made and that both HR and more senior managers will be made aware both of the bullying and the inadequecies of the response from you.
stick to it !
The Beaver King said:
Thanks for the replies guys.
Most of the replies seem to echo the advice I've given to the GF already and some of the experiences sound very similar. The manager comes across as a lazy wker who just wants the quiet life and being a manager myself, it boils my piss...
I'll get her to request a copy of the grievance policy and to continue to record any further incidents. It's bad enough that she is being mentally bullied by this woman, but the business take the absolute piss as well. My GF is 20, just finished her business admin course with the company, works 7:30am to 5:30pm Monday to Friday doing the invoicing for the business and yet gets paid £11,600 a year salary...!
She spoke to her manager a few months ago about a payrise now she has completed her course and, after a couple of months draging his heels, he walked past her in the corridor and said "I've sorted your payrise, you've been given an extra £1,600 to bring you up to £13,000 a year. You can't negoitate it as it has already gone through. Bye".
Seriously? How fking unprofessional is this company?
Needless to say, the GF is working on her CV at the moment and will start looking for a new job in the next few months. It's just a complete joke though. It seems to be the victim that is being pushed out of the company, rather than the bh that is causing all the trouble...
You say she earns £11,600 but is getting a £1,600 payrise to take her to £13,00. That's a maths fail. Assuming you meant £1400 rise then TBH that eqates to 12%.Most of the replies seem to echo the advice I've given to the GF already and some of the experiences sound very similar. The manager comes across as a lazy w
ker who just wants the quiet life and being a manager myself, it boils my piss...I'll get her to request a copy of the grievance policy and to continue to record any further incidents. It's bad enough that she is being mentally bullied by this woman, but the business take the absolute piss as well. My GF is 20, just finished her business admin course with the company, works 7:30am to 5:30pm Monday to Friday doing the invoicing for the business and yet gets paid £11,600 a year salary...!
She spoke to her manager a few months ago about a payrise now she has completed her course and, after a couple of months draging his heels, he walked past her in the corridor and said "I've sorted your payrise, you've been given an extra £1,600 to bring you up to £13,000 a year. You can't negoitate it as it has already gone through. Bye".
Seriously? How f
king unprofessional is this company?Needless to say, the GF is working on her CV at the moment and will start looking for a new job in the next few months. It's just a complete joke though. It seems to be the victim that is being pushed out of the company, rather than the b
h that is causing all the trouble...I can see where others are coming from when they say fight it, report this, report that, but let's face it your GF is at the bottom of the ladder, has worked two years for a firm and now is the time to move on. For that kinda money it ain't worth the stress.
If the immediate manager has applied any pressure to get her to work until the end of the week then she should be extending her grievance.
This managers inability to deal with an ongoing siutation of bullying has made your girlfriend ill, now the same manager has pursuaded her to keep working even though a medically trained professional has told her she needs a break. He is actively making a bad situation worse.
If anything, he has provided her with an ideal opportunity to take the grievance straight to the next level of seniority and HR. Get this grievance done and get it in writing.
This managers inability to deal with an ongoing siutation of bullying has made your girlfriend ill, now the same manager has pursuaded her to keep working even though a medically trained professional has told her she needs a break. He is actively making a bad situation worse.
If anything, he has provided her with an ideal opportunity to take the grievance straight to the next level of seniority and HR. Get this grievance done and get it in writing.
Sir Bagalot said:
You say she earns £11,600 but is getting a £1,600 payrise to take her to £13,00. That's a maths fail. Assuming you meant £1400 rise then TBH that eqates to 12%.
I can see where others are coming from when they say fight it, report this, report that, but let's face it your GF is at the bottom of the ladder, has worked two years for a firm and now is the time to move on. For that kinda money it ain't worth the stress.
Maths fail on my part, typing too fast for my brain to keep up. Her new salary is £13,000 though.I can see where others are coming from when they say fight it, report this, report that, but let's face it your GF is at the bottom of the ladder, has worked two years for a firm and now is the time to move on. For that kinda money it ain't worth the stress.
My feelings exactly, the only issue is that she works in a town that has opportunities and is not able to drive. Unless she is able to walk straight into another job, it will financially destroy her. Her only option is to move in with me 100 miles away and find a job there. Not a problem really, except its a big step considering we've been dating for only 8 months...
Firefoot said:
If the immediate manager has applied any pressure to get her to work until the end of the week then she should be extending her grievance.
This managers inability to deal with an ongoing siutation of bullying has made your girlfriend ill, now the same manager has pursuaded her to keep working even though a medically trained professional has told her she needs a break. He is actively making a bad situation worse.
If anything, he has provided her with an ideal opportunity to take the grievance straight to the next level of seniority and HR. Get this grievance done and get it in writing.
I completely see your point, the only thing is I think he phrased it in a way that guilted my girlfriend into saying she would work till the end of the week, rather than saying it outright.This managers inability to deal with an ongoing siutation of bullying has made your girlfriend ill, now the same manager has pursuaded her to keep working even though a medically trained professional has told her she needs a break. He is actively making a bad situation worse.
If anything, he has provided her with an ideal opportunity to take the grievance straight to the next level of seniority and HR. Get this grievance done and get it in writing.
I've told her to make a not of everything her manager says to her, as I get the feeling he will say something to push her out rather than deal with the problem. It's a shame really as she actually enjoys her job, just not one or two of the people she works with...
The Beaver King said:
I completely see your point, the only thing is I think he phrased it in a way that guilted my girlfriend into saying she would work till the end of the week, rather than saying it outright.
I've told her to make a not of everything her manager says to her, as I get the feeling he will say something to push her out rather than deal with the problem. It's a shame really as she actually enjoys her job, just not one or two of the people she works with...
It doesn't really matter how it was phrased. The correct course of action was for her to go sick from the day the GP told her to. The employer should have encouraged this.I've told her to make a not of everything her manager says to her, as I get the feeling he will say something to push her out rather than deal with the problem. It's a shame really as she actually enjoys her job, just not one or two of the people she works with...
If she had chicken pox, the manager would not have wanted her to work to the end of the week. Just because it is a mental health issue and she doesn't look ill, he is taking advantage. She definitely needs to make sure this is noted in writing as part of her grievance complaint.
It works in her favour that she has comtinued to work this week to help out as she is showing how willing and cooperative she is. HR and senior management should recognise this.
Just out of curiosity, is there a HR department or person where she works?
pokethepope said:
Unless I have made my own maths fail does that not mean she has been working for less than minimum wage for the last two years?
She's 20 years old, if that helps? I'm not sure what minimum wage is anymore, but isn't it lower under 21? She gets paid ste whatever it is...Firefoot said:
Just out of curiosity, is there a HR department or person where she works?
The company is a national so yes, although the branch is based in a backwater town so doesn't have an HR representative at her office. Sir Bagalot said:
I can see where others are coming from when they say fight it, report this, report that, but let's face it your GF is at the bottom of the ladder, has worked two years for a firm and now is the time to move on. For that kinda money it ain't worth the stress.
100% This.If it is a problem she can't sort herself, which it appears is the case, it is easiest to just suck it up a few months longer and move on.
This does not mean to suggest that she has not been badly treated or served but is the reality of life.
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