Electing to take redundancy...???
Discussion
Well it's time to test the size of my balls.
Basically I can take redundancy without a job to go to would work out to be 5-6months total including 3 months notice which I may or may not have to work all or part of it. Without a job to go to currently but am eagerly at the agencies sorting out interviews etc
Or if I don't take it by next tuesday deadline then there is a secondary head Lunt reduction just kicking off which could impact me - I'd say more than a 50:50 chance but that's just a feeling. The thing is if I was made redundant under this second set up I'd receive 40% less redundancy different terms. Also clearly I don't know what role I would be in and will not until a short time two weeks max after this deadline.
The company is a good 100 mile round trip and yet again not bonus for anyone... I'd assume there is a slim chance for 2012 also. In addition things are very tough (where isn't though) due to all these headcount reductions three in under a year so morale is poor and the principle of team is long gone which is a shame. It's understandable company in trouble things are bad you have to look after number one.
Anyway am I mad in thinking right now taking this redundancy is the smartest move or should I just keep going grim and bear it??
Basically I can take redundancy without a job to go to would work out to be 5-6months total including 3 months notice which I may or may not have to work all or part of it. Without a job to go to currently but am eagerly at the agencies sorting out interviews etc
Or if I don't take it by next tuesday deadline then there is a secondary head Lunt reduction just kicking off which could impact me - I'd say more than a 50:50 chance but that's just a feeling. The thing is if I was made redundant under this second set up I'd receive 40% less redundancy different terms. Also clearly I don't know what role I would be in and will not until a short time two weeks max after this deadline.
The company is a good 100 mile round trip and yet again not bonus for anyone... I'd assume there is a slim chance for 2012 also. In addition things are very tough (where isn't though) due to all these headcount reductions three in under a year so morale is poor and the principle of team is long gone which is a shame. It's understandable company in trouble things are bad you have to look after number one.
Anyway am I mad in thinking right now taking this redundancy is the smartest move or should I just keep going grim and bear it??
Was facing pretty much the same myself last summer. Choice was to take a decent offer voluntary redundancy or hang on for grim death while the company did all it could to force us out through applying ridiculous levels of pressure and hope that the terms remain the same when / if the next round of voluntary comes up. Compulsory costs more so whilst the company used it as a threat it wasn't an option, they'd manage people out other ways first.
Both my boss and I took the plunge and went for it whilst the rest of my old Team stayed put.
Within 3 months I landed a job which suits me far better, has more seniority and pays £4k a year more. the company is a large multinational at the top of it's sector and growing, I actually see a chance for progression after a period of feeling lucky to have a job at all.
As I was ridiculously frugal whilst out of work I had a fair chunk of redundancy pay left and have managed to treat myself to an M3 whilst retaining 4 months salary as contingency.
However my ex boss is now 6 months out of work, thoroughly demotivated and as he is looking at contact centre jobs I think he has probably burnt through his redundancy.
So, whilst taking the leap is a big risk it might just pay off. Then again it might not.
One thing that has become clear though is that staying put in an organisation suffering death by a thousand cuts is not the easy way out.
All of my old team have been redeployed into gaps left by people taking voluntary for which they have had no training or experience. They are performing the work of 2-3 different roles merged into one and are being micro managed in these roles. Some are off long term sick and several are now into disciplinary processes on performance grounds. It is clear the organisation is looking to get people out any way it can.
With hindsight the most difficult part was not making the decision to go, I knew what was going to happen if I stayed, rather it was facing up to the reality of the situation. Once I had signed the papers to go though that was over. Taking that step put the power back into my hands to decide where my future lay and with that knowledge I put everything into moving on. Although it was scary it felt amazingly good to have that power back, it was that which gave me the drive and the confidence to get this new job and I haven't looked back since.
My vote is do it, feel the fear and then forget it.
This is an opportunity to spend 100% of your time and effort finding your future. Finding the right job is a full time job in itself, take the redundancy and get busy moving on.
Both my boss and I took the plunge and went for it whilst the rest of my old Team stayed put.
Within 3 months I landed a job which suits me far better, has more seniority and pays £4k a year more. the company is a large multinational at the top of it's sector and growing, I actually see a chance for progression after a period of feeling lucky to have a job at all.
As I was ridiculously frugal whilst out of work I had a fair chunk of redundancy pay left and have managed to treat myself to an M3 whilst retaining 4 months salary as contingency.
However my ex boss is now 6 months out of work, thoroughly demotivated and as he is looking at contact centre jobs I think he has probably burnt through his redundancy.
So, whilst taking the leap is a big risk it might just pay off. Then again it might not.
One thing that has become clear though is that staying put in an organisation suffering death by a thousand cuts is not the easy way out.
All of my old team have been redeployed into gaps left by people taking voluntary for which they have had no training or experience. They are performing the work of 2-3 different roles merged into one and are being micro managed in these roles. Some are off long term sick and several are now into disciplinary processes on performance grounds. It is clear the organisation is looking to get people out any way it can.
With hindsight the most difficult part was not making the decision to go, I knew what was going to happen if I stayed, rather it was facing up to the reality of the situation. Once I had signed the papers to go though that was over. Taking that step put the power back into my hands to decide where my future lay and with that knowledge I put everything into moving on. Although it was scary it felt amazingly good to have that power back, it was that which gave me the drive and the confidence to get this new job and I haven't looked back since.
My vote is do it, feel the fear and then forget it.
This is an opportunity to spend 100% of your time and effort finding your future. Finding the right job is a full time job in itself, take the redundancy and get busy moving on.
Edited by Babu 01 on Wednesday 15th February 21:18
I think your spot on with the managing people out of the business. The review for last year for me was - well line Myra didn't had over before they left so cannot give you any grade regardless of me pushing that the people I'd business partnered still in the business to give a review. They had none of it nor have they been grateful that I'm covering four roles as is... Again pointed this out as they could clearly grade that but refused ...
The line Managers mgr input for a formal full year review let's draw a line under it and move on...
For record I had an excellent year the year before I hit a 2 which is rare and last year I outperformed that by a step so I was expecting a 1 online for a promotion then to be given a 3.... I challenged given done cyz more than previous year plus base performance higher in the exactly same role how can the grade be lower?? Let's draw a line under it
I said grade feeds into annual pay rise plus it clearly comes into play with head countt reduction or choosing between two individuals all else being equal or when going for a promotion down the line would need to understand why grades gone backwards.
I'm thinking with that in the background it's time to go.
I've done contracting before and had my Ltd company so could go that route again. More risk but it is what it is
The line Managers mgr input for a formal full year review let's draw a line under it and move on...
For record I had an excellent year the year before I hit a 2 which is rare and last year I outperformed that by a step so I was expecting a 1 online for a promotion then to be given a 3.... I challenged given done cyz more than previous year plus base performance higher in the exactly same role how can the grade be lower?? Let's draw a line under it
I said grade feeds into annual pay rise plus it clearly comes into play with head countt reduction or choosing between two individuals all else being equal or when going for a promotion down the line would need to understand why grades gone backwards.
I'm thinking with that in the background it's time to go.
I've done contracting before and had my Ltd company so could go that route again. More risk but it is what it is
If rewarding performance has gone by the wayside then all the company are looking at is bottom line figures. It is doing all it can to reduce expenditure and doesn't care if it's better people walk as a result.
If there are compulsory redundancies they will be based on who is the cheapest to get rid of and those left will have to pick up the pieces until the day comes the doors are locked and people are left chasing receivers for severance packages.
Reading your posts I think your decision is already made.
Looking at how this impacted where I had been I saw how accurate the Kubler model of grief actually is.
Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance. All followed one after the other for me and a lot of others. The trick was to move to acceptance quickly.
The sooner you let go of all the negative crap the firm has put on you and take control of your life back the better your chance of finding something else will be.
Obiously it's a risk but so is staying put eating s
t for months and then, maybe, ending up with a 40% lower payout.
To misquote Susan Jeffers, fk the fear and do it anyway.
If there are compulsory redundancies they will be based on who is the cheapest to get rid of and those left will have to pick up the pieces until the day comes the doors are locked and people are left chasing receivers for severance packages.
Reading your posts I think your decision is already made.
Looking at how this impacted where I had been I saw how accurate the Kubler model of grief actually is.
Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance. All followed one after the other for me and a lot of others. The trick was to move to acceptance quickly.
The sooner you let go of all the negative crap the firm has put on you and take control of your life back the better your chance of finding something else will be.
Obiously it's a risk but so is staying put eating s
t for months and then, maybe, ending up with a 40% lower payout.To misquote Susan Jeffers, f
k the fear and do it anyway.The reason I have until Tuesday is they moved our old office to the HQ and it's a trial period to test the commute and office ambiance.
Well commute is a pig 100miles a day
Also no insure parking so have to NCP 15 min walk each way with £4 in coins!!! Expensed.
Office well people are nice but fact is your after what are you going to be doing.
So on two of those points it isn't good add in risk of being compulsory redundant on drastically worse terms within a matte of weeks gone before May I believe plus that annual review farce I've lost confidence with the leadership. It could be tactical could be they don't have time (in which case why during conservations re the review how important it is to input a lot of time to get the most out of it ... Well 5 pages from me lot of work on top of day Job to get a comment not handed over cannot grade and then line mgr mgr agree with comment draw line under it and reject my formal request for a meeting for them to address the challenges I raised re their responses lack of work.
Really has wound me up.
I was a highly engaged employee really over and above how to turn someone totally off in a five minute meeting when giving the grade and reason. Even if it was zero pay rises and they are intending to get rid of me why not keep me sweet until that point this way they have lost out on effort
Well commute is a pig 100miles a day
Also no insure parking so have to NCP 15 min walk each way with £4 in coins!!! Expensed.
Office well people are nice but fact is your after what are you going to be doing.
So on two of those points it isn't good add in risk of being compulsory redundant on drastically worse terms within a matte of weeks gone before May I believe plus that annual review farce I've lost confidence with the leadership. It could be tactical could be they don't have time (in which case why during conservations re the review how important it is to input a lot of time to get the most out of it ... Well 5 pages from me lot of work on top of day Job to get a comment not handed over cannot grade and then line mgr mgr agree with comment draw line under it and reject my formal request for a meeting for them to address the challenges I raised re their responses lack of work.
Really has wound me up.
I was a highly engaged employee really over and above how to turn someone totally off in a five minute meeting when giving the grade and reason. Even if it was zero pay rises and they are intending to get rid of me why not keep me sweet until that point this way they have lost out on effort
I too was faced with deciding between voluntary redundancy or taking my chances with everyone else last year. I thought long and hard about it, and in the end decided to stay. As it happens, I was made redundant anyway and got a £7k payout. I was fairly optimistic that with my qualifications and experience I would find something else fairly quick. Three months sat at home proved my optimism to be mis-placed and with a mortgage to pay it became pretty worrying. Unless you are absolutely certain to find something else quickly, I would say do not volunteer. I believe it will also affect your ability to receive jobseekers allowance. I would say if you are made redundant then sign on as soon as possible as at least it will give you something coming in. Think about it very carefully before you decide, as a job is better than no job no matter how crap it is.
Voluntary redundancy can be treated as a resignation for the purposes of JSA and any insurance policies you might have. Bear this in mind if you have a policy which covers your mortgage payments while you're out of work for instance you'll probably have to get compulsory for them to pay out.
first question would be whether you like your job/company and whether there is a career there for you.
i was in your shoes in november 2010. worked in the steel industry for the big one who's always in the news for redundancies.
i hated my job and it was no secret that i wanted out as i applied for pretty much anything that came up in our dutch/french businesses [who were run much differently and had better opportunities].
i had my consultation and was told my job wasn't at risk. with 10,000 employees going out the door, i rang the HR heads i knew and they told me there was naff all chance of moving for 1-2yrs. i volunteered for redundancy the same day and left 2 weeks later.
like you i had 6mths salary including notice in lieu. i used the bulk of that to finish renovations on the house and was out of work for 5mths in total until starting up as a contractor. i did that for 7mths and then moved out to dubai on twice the money + bonuses [and zero tax]. house is tenanted, all my loans paid off, 2 cars on the drive and - above all - i love my new job
if it's the right move, run with it. the feeling you get when leaving a job you dislike is very liberating. you then st yourself for a week or two that you have no job and lots of outgoings, then your mind focuses on what you want to be doing from now on.
i was in your shoes in november 2010. worked in the steel industry for the big one who's always in the news for redundancies.
i hated my job and it was no secret that i wanted out as i applied for pretty much anything that came up in our dutch/french businesses [who were run much differently and had better opportunities].
i had my consultation and was told my job wasn't at risk. with 10,000 employees going out the door, i rang the HR heads i knew and they told me there was naff all chance of moving for 1-2yrs. i volunteered for redundancy the same day and left 2 weeks later.
like you i had 6mths salary including notice in lieu. i used the bulk of that to finish renovations on the house and was out of work for 5mths in total until starting up as a contractor. i did that for 7mths and then moved out to dubai on twice the money + bonuses [and zero tax]. house is tenanted, all my loans paid off, 2 cars on the drive and - above all - i love my new job
if it's the right move, run with it. the feeling you get when leaving a job you dislike is very liberating. you then s
t yourself for a week or two that you have no job and lots of outgoings, then your mind focuses on what you want to be doing from now on.Flibble said:
Voluntary redundancy can be treated as a resignation for the purposes of JSA and any insurance policies you might have. Bear this in mind if you have a policy which covers your mortgage payments while you're out of work for instance you'll probably have to get compulsory for them to pay out.
Mine would be rejecting the trial of office move so would be not vol redundancy but plain redundancyDo it.
The sheer weight of depression it lifts off you is worth its weight in gold. Oh and back yourself in the market place.
Welsh...link to my thread last time around:
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
The sheer weight of depression it lifts off you is worth its weight in gold. Oh and back yourself in the market place.
Welsh...link to my thread last time around:
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
Edited by DJRC on Friday 17th February 08:48
I was given the option of voluntary and took it, which was a good decision for me.
What happened next was a bad decision though, I'd had an offer which I thought I was a bit better than, and declined it. Spent 5 months looking for a role after that which met expectation. Should have just taken the one I was offered, rode it out and sat on the cash in the bank rather than letting my ego turn it away in favour of something better coming along, which luckily it did
What happened next was a bad decision though, I'd had an offer which I thought I was a bit better than, and declined it. Spent 5 months looking for a role after that which met expectation. Should have just taken the one I was offered, rode it out and sat on the cash in the bank rather than letting my ego turn it away in favour of something better coming along, which luckily it did
Babu 01 said:
Contribution based Jobseekers Allowance, which is payable for 6 months, doesn't look at whether the redundancy was voluntary or not or how much you have in savings.
If you've made enough in NI contributions then you receive it.
Correct, I've just come off JSA after taking redundancy in November (but back in work now). I was totally honest about the situation, and how much I had in savings (including the redundancy payment), and I still got contributions based JSA.If you've made enough in NI contributions then you receive it.
You will get very little else though.
If you do take redundancy then definately claim it, it makes things simpler when sorting out tax NI etc, as you have a paper trail of what you have been doing. Also when your income drops to zero, its handy to have something coming in.
Once I restarted work they even sent me a tax rebate, as PAYE is based on being empoyed for the whole year.
Babu 01 said:
Contribution based Jobseekers Allowance, which is payable for 6 months, doesn't look at whether the redundancy was voluntary or not or how much you have in savings.
If you've made enough in NI contributions then you receive it.
You don't get it if you're being paid for your notice period though. In the place I worked some people were on 6mths notice. I was on 3, which I thought was good until I found out about the 6mth people!If you've made enough in NI contributions then you receive it.
Babu 01 said:
Was facing pretty much the same myself last summer. Choice was to take a decent offer voluntary redundancy or hang on for grim death while the company did all it could to force us out through applying ridiculous levels of pressure and hope that the terms remain the same when / if the next round of voluntary comes up. Compulsory costs more so whilst the company used it as a threat it wasn't an option, they'd manage people out other ways first.
Both my boss and I took the plunge and went for it whilst the rest of my old Team stayed put.
Within 3 months I landed a job which suits me far better, has more seniority and pays £4k a year more. the company is a large multinational at the top of it's sector and growing, I actually see a chance for progression after a period of feeling lucky to have a job at all.
As I was ridiculously frugal whilst out of work I had a fair chunk of redundancy pay left and have managed to treat myself to an M3 whilst retaining 4 months salary as contingency.
However my ex boss is now 6 months out of work, thoroughly demotivated and as he is looking at contact centre jobs I think he has probably burnt through his redundancy.
So, whilst taking the leap is a big risk it might just pay off. Then again it might not.
One thing that has become clear though is that staying put in an organisation suffering death by a thousand cuts is not the easy way out.
All of my old team have been redeployed into gaps left by people taking voluntary for which they have had no training or experience. They are performing the work of 2-3 different roles merged into one and are being micro managed in these roles. Some are off long term sick and several are now into disciplinary processes on performance grounds. It is clear the organisation is looking to get people out any way it can.
With hindsight the most difficult part was not making the decision to go, I knew what was going to happen if I stayed, rather it was facing up to the reality of the situation. Once I had signed the papers to go though that was over. Taking that step put the power back into my hands to decide where my future lay and with that knowledge I put everything into moving on. Although it was scary it felt amazingly good to have that power back, it was that which gave me the drive and the confidence to get this new job and I haven't looked back since.
My vote is do it, feel the fear and then forget it.
This is an opportunity to spend 100% of your time and effort finding your future. Finding the right job is a full time job in itself, take the redundancy and get busy moving on.
Great post.Both my boss and I took the plunge and went for it whilst the rest of my old Team stayed put.
Within 3 months I landed a job which suits me far better, has more seniority and pays £4k a year more. the company is a large multinational at the top of it's sector and growing, I actually see a chance for progression after a period of feeling lucky to have a job at all.
As I was ridiculously frugal whilst out of work I had a fair chunk of redundancy pay left and have managed to treat myself to an M3 whilst retaining 4 months salary as contingency.
However my ex boss is now 6 months out of work, thoroughly demotivated and as he is looking at contact centre jobs I think he has probably burnt through his redundancy.
So, whilst taking the leap is a big risk it might just pay off. Then again it might not.
One thing that has become clear though is that staying put in an organisation suffering death by a thousand cuts is not the easy way out.
All of my old team have been redeployed into gaps left by people taking voluntary for which they have had no training or experience. They are performing the work of 2-3 different roles merged into one and are being micro managed in these roles. Some are off long term sick and several are now into disciplinary processes on performance grounds. It is clear the organisation is looking to get people out any way it can.
With hindsight the most difficult part was not making the decision to go, I knew what was going to happen if I stayed, rather it was facing up to the reality of the situation. Once I had signed the papers to go though that was over. Taking that step put the power back into my hands to decide where my future lay and with that knowledge I put everything into moving on. Although it was scary it felt amazingly good to have that power back, it was that which gave me the drive and the confidence to get this new job and I haven't looked back since.
My vote is do it, feel the fear and then forget it.
This is an opportunity to spend 100% of your time and effort finding your future. Finding the right job is a full time job in itself, take the redundancy and get busy moving on.
Edited by Babu 01 on Wednesday 15th February 21:18
whoami said:
Great post.
Cheers.I spent a lot of time working through all this stuff and am confident that the reason it worked out for me where it hasn't for others is because I was able to accept the situation and move on quickly.
Committing to the route I took was a massive part of that. The sense of power and freedom I got from sticking the papers in was a massive relief, a buzz and a motivator all rolled into one.
Others (ex boss) were going through the motions of filling in forms and trawling job sites but they were still stuck in indecision doubting their choices, getting angry at the firm or suffering in self pity. They were still letting others dominate their thoughts and actions.
With my post I was trying to convey the message that if you do it and commit to your choice chances are you'll do fine, if you allow others to run things for you chances are you won't.
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