Being asked to work for 2 seperate entities
Discussion
Mrs P works for an SME in the service sector.
Its a small company, but has reasonably turnover. She's been there 4 years or so.
Part of the job involves billing, and as part of her contract she receives a bonus based on the profit of the company and her billable hours- they have always been reluctant to pay it though (although they have done a couple of times).
Recently the copmany has had some upheavel (2 of the owners went seperate ways acrimoniously). Mrs P is still employed by the original company, but was informed that a new sister company, doing related work would be sharing offices with them.
Of course now she is being told she has to do ad hoc (and quite a bit) of work for this new company. Normally not a problem, but it IS a seperate legal entity. the real problem is that the new company pays no bonus, she is working less for the old company (hence her bonus will reduce), and it looks likely that the new copmany will cherry pick business from the old company.
What are her obligations to work for the new company, and what rights does she have in respect of bonus.
on top, and to complicate matters, we would like to be pregnant sooner rathre than later so a. this bonus is vital to us saving up, and b. i would like to protect her maternity rights.
Know that this has discussed "rights" an awful lot, but i should say Mrs P is dedicated and hard working, and has been for a number of years in an often difficult and stressful role.
Its a small company, but has reasonably turnover. She's been there 4 years or so.
Part of the job involves billing, and as part of her contract she receives a bonus based on the profit of the company and her billable hours- they have always been reluctant to pay it though (although they have done a couple of times).
Recently the copmany has had some upheavel (2 of the owners went seperate ways acrimoniously). Mrs P is still employed by the original company, but was informed that a new sister company, doing related work would be sharing offices with them.
Of course now she is being told she has to do ad hoc (and quite a bit) of work for this new company. Normally not a problem, but it IS a seperate legal entity. the real problem is that the new company pays no bonus, she is working less for the old company (hence her bonus will reduce), and it looks likely that the new copmany will cherry pick business from the old company.
What are her obligations to work for the new company, and what rights does she have in respect of bonus.
on top, and to complicate matters, we would like to be pregnant sooner rathre than later so a. this bonus is vital to us saving up, and b. i would like to protect her maternity rights.
Know that this has discussed "rights" an awful lot, but i should say Mrs P is dedicated and hard working, and has been for a number of years in an often difficult and stressful role.
Okay, I know of a GOOD company who make bespoke automation equipment. All the staff are employed by one company, but each BIG contract is a LTD company in it's own right, and the work they do is billed to that company from the company they work for.
The reasons for this come down to the massive penalties for being late, or after delivery, for stopping a line.
Customer sues the LTD company that was formed just for that project, and ... the til is empty.
So in that respect Mrs P is being asked to work for both companies, and the issue is that the bonus payments are not being paid, and there's more work causing stress ?
I think that Mrs P should make sure the working arrangments are in writing, that she has a timesheet to record the approximate times working for which company, and make it clear to the bosses what her pay and bonus needs to be in order for them to benefit from her experience.
Sounds like a really stressful situation. good Luck.
The reasons for this come down to the massive penalties for being late, or after delivery, for stopping a line.
Customer sues the LTD company that was formed just for that project, and ... the til is empty.
So in that respect Mrs P is being asked to work for both companies, and the issue is that the bonus payments are not being paid, and there's more work causing stress ?
I think that Mrs P should make sure the working arrangments are in writing, that she has a timesheet to record the approximate times working for which company, and make it clear to the bosses what her pay and bonus needs to be in order for them to benefit from her experience.
Sounds like a really stressful situation. good Luck.
New POD said:
The reasons for this come down to the massive penalties for being late, or after delivery, for stopping a line.
Customer sues the LTD company that was formed just for that project, and ... the til is empty.
Sounds like the services aren't being procured properly by the client then if there is no PCG or Bond.Customer sues the LTD company that was formed just for that project, and ... the til is empty.
Notwithstanding any challenges for the company owners, an an employee it is reasonable to have a contract that represents reality as far as is practicable. I would arrange to chat to my Line Manager to discuss a way ahead.
Re bonuses; as a remuneration tool they are flawed for many reasons, one of them being that they become 'expected' as personnel factor them in to their lives rather than see them as just that, a bonus. The banking sector demonstrated this clearly; there are other more sustainable ways to ensure staff are valued and recompensed for their efforts.
Re bonuses; as a remuneration tool they are flawed for many reasons, one of them being that they become 'expected' as personnel factor them in to their lives rather than see them as just that, a bonus. The banking sector demonstrated this clearly; there are other more sustainable ways to ensure staff are valued and recompensed for their efforts.
rog007 said:
Notwithstanding any challenges for the company owners, an an employee it is reasonable to have a contract that represents reality as far as is practicable. I would arrange to chat to my Line Manager to discuss a way ahead.
Re bonuses; as a remuneration tool they are flawed for many reasons, one of them being that they become 'expected' as personnel factor them in to their lives rather than see them as just that, a bonus. The banking sector demonstrated this clearly; there are other more sustainable ways to ensure staff are valued and recompensed for their efforts.
bonus wise- we are happy that it should reflect profitability of the copmany- and it is a direct correlation in this case- about £x profit the bonus is a couple of p in the pound split according to your billed hours. bit cheeky to have an employee working ofor a company with which you have no contract, and which will not pay out a bonus! Re bonuses; as a remuneration tool they are flawed for many reasons, one of them being that they become 'expected' as personnel factor them in to their lives rather than see them as just that, a bonus. The banking sector demonstrated this clearly; there are other more sustainable ways to ensure staff are valued and recompensed for their efforts.
Who is paying her? That's what it boils down to.
If Company A are paying her for working for both A and B, then her original contract and bonus remains intact and should be paid. How A sorts out charging B for her services isn't her problem.
If she is working for both Company A and Company B, then yes, her Bonus would only be paid for work done with Company A, but why doesn't she just insist on the same contract terms for Company B, or refuse to work for Company B?
What it boils down to, is that they can't *make* her work for Company B directly, but they can make her do Company B's work as part of her Company A contract. It would form a material change in her contract for them to adjust how the bonus works for this split in work, and she should ensure that she is adequately remunerated for the change.
If Company A are paying her for working for both A and B, then her original contract and bonus remains intact and should be paid. How A sorts out charging B for her services isn't her problem.
If she is working for both Company A and Company B, then yes, her Bonus would only be paid for work done with Company A, but why doesn't she just insist on the same contract terms for Company B, or refuse to work for Company B?
What it boils down to, is that they can't *make* her work for Company B directly, but they can make her do Company B's work as part of her Company A contract. It would form a material change in her contract for them to adjust how the bonus works for this split in work, and she should ensure that she is adequately remunerated for the change.
Cyberprog said:
Who is paying her? That's what it boils down to.
If Company A are paying her for working for both A and B, then her original contract and bonus remains intact and should be paid. How A sorts out charging B for her services isn't her problem.
If she is working for both Company A and Company B, then yes, her Bonus would only be paid for work done with Company A, but why doesn't she just insist on the same contract terms for Company B, or refuse to work for Company B?
What it boils down to, is that they can't *make* her work for Company B directly, but they can make her do Company B's work as part of her Company A contract. It would form a material change in her contract for them to adjust how the bonus works for this split in work, and she should ensure that she is adequately remunerated for the change.
this is all well and good- but how does she enforce her rights? through a tribunal? can you imagine thow that will go down in a small company? she would lose her job.....If Company A are paying her for working for both A and B, then her original contract and bonus remains intact and should be paid. How A sorts out charging B for her services isn't her problem.
If she is working for both Company A and Company B, then yes, her Bonus would only be paid for work done with Company A, but why doesn't she just insist on the same contract terms for Company B, or refuse to work for Company B?
What it boils down to, is that they can't *make* her work for Company B directly, but they can make her do Company B's work as part of her Company A contract. It would form a material change in her contract for them to adjust how the bonus works for this split in work, and she should ensure that she is adequately remunerated for the change.
I would imagine that it would be unfair dismissal if they were to do that. You can't force someone to work against their will after all.
But anyway, it comes down to how she's paid currently. If solely by Company A then her bonus should be unaffected. If by Both, then she needs to re-negotiate, or insist on a contract of employment, which she is entitled to. She can then query this contract saying "here, this is different to my contract for company A..." and that then opens up grounds for discussion of what the second job involves. She doesn't have to be arsey about it, but simply to get clarification of what she's being paid to do.
After all, if she doesn't like it, she could just give notice and find another job, the question is, how replaceable is she in her current role?
Or she could just get pregnant and give both companies a maternity headache... (sorry OP!)
But anyway, it comes down to how she's paid currently. If solely by Company A then her bonus should be unaffected. If by Both, then she needs to re-negotiate, or insist on a contract of employment, which she is entitled to. She can then query this contract saying "here, this is different to my contract for company A..." and that then opens up grounds for discussion of what the second job involves. She doesn't have to be arsey about it, but simply to get clarification of what she's being paid to do.
After all, if she doesn't like it, she could just give notice and find another job, the question is, how replaceable is she in her current role?
Or she could just get pregnant and give both companies a maternity headache... (sorry OP!)
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