Any financial advisers around?
Discussion
Just had a few questions about Independent Financial Adviser as a career as it's something i've been considering.
1.) I've been to interviews at a company where they are self-employed. Frankly, I have heard some astonishing figures being thrown around about earnings potentials. I was told there are people working there earning £500k/yr and in my first year once qualified making £75k was very achievable. My question is: is it actually realistic that IFA's earn this sort of money or am I being told something I want to hear? I understand that at the place it all depends on effort/ability, but £75k/yr? Do a lot of IFA's really earn £200k?
2.) Is it a good career? From speaking to people, they speak badly about financial advisers and how it's all a bit of a con and a pretty useless service. Whilst the money is useful, i'd rather not do a job with such stigma attached and I prefer to sleep at night knowing I haven't conned/scammed anyone into paying for something they really didn't want.
3.) Let's say a few years down the line I decide I want to move on from it. Is the qualification valued by other sectors or am I just going to be pigeon holed into IFA jobs/sales jobs?
Hopefully someone will be able to assist with some of my concerns.
Thanks.
1.) I've been to interviews at a company where they are self-employed. Frankly, I have heard some astonishing figures being thrown around about earnings potentials. I was told there are people working there earning £500k/yr and in my first year once qualified making £75k was very achievable. My question is: is it actually realistic that IFA's earn this sort of money or am I being told something I want to hear? I understand that at the place it all depends on effort/ability, but £75k/yr? Do a lot of IFA's really earn £200k?
2.) Is it a good career? From speaking to people, they speak badly about financial advisers and how it's all a bit of a con and a pretty useless service. Whilst the money is useful, i'd rather not do a job with such stigma attached and I prefer to sleep at night knowing I haven't conned/scammed anyone into paying for something they really didn't want.
3.) Let's say a few years down the line I decide I want to move on from it. Is the qualification valued by other sectors or am I just going to be pigeon holed into IFA jobs/sales jobs?
Hopefully someone will be able to assist with some of my concerns.
Thanks.
I've been a successful tied advisor for the last eight years and due to some unfortunate circumstances out of the industry.
RDR (look it up) is being implemented in 2013. The FSA are strangling the industry with increasing regulation and revised charging structures. It's not the easy money career it used to be.
As a new person looking in, you need to get yourself Diploma qualified (which is quite difficult even for us with many years experience). Jumping straight into an IFA would be certain disaster without knowledge, experience and a customer bank. A good friend of mine took the jump to being an IFA with a good few years experience behind him and only after two year is slowly starting to actually earn a living.
In my honest opinion, it's a dying industry and only the very established IFAs will continue to do well. Bancassurance is another way in but your Barclays and LloydsTSB have scrapped or seriously cutting back there Wealth operations for a reason (RDR).
RDR (look it up) is being implemented in 2013. The FSA are strangling the industry with increasing regulation and revised charging structures. It's not the easy money career it used to be.
As a new person looking in, you need to get yourself Diploma qualified (which is quite difficult even for us with many years experience). Jumping straight into an IFA would be certain disaster without knowledge, experience and a customer bank. A good friend of mine took the jump to being an IFA with a good few years experience behind him and only after two year is slowly starting to actually earn a living.
In my honest opinion, it's a dying industry and only the very established IFAs will continue to do well. Bancassurance is another way in but your Barclays and LloydsTSB have scrapped or seriously cutting back there Wealth operations for a reason (RDR).
Thanks for the info. I did a bit of research prior to interviews so know about the RDR and the changes to commission that it will implement. The company said they're training everyone up for the diploma, they didn't seem to think it was a big deal and that I could qualify within 12-24 months depending on how hard I work. I saw online that the initial CII exams can take a person about 12 months to get through and then the person said the diploma was an extra year or two. So not sure what to make of the time it'll take to qualify. One good thing about the diploma is it reduces supply of IFA's so they can get a larger portion of market/charge more due to supply/demand?
I was told that in first year £75k was very achievable but it's down to the person. Do you think that's a pipe dream and they're just giving me the sales pitch to get me in? Lastly, in your honest opinion....they get us to cold call people, are we really just selling people something they don't want or is there something of real value to them?
I was told that in first year £75k was very achievable but it's down to the person. Do you think that's a pipe dream and they're just giving me the sales pitch to get me in? Lastly, in your honest opinion....they get us to cold call people, are we really just selling people something they don't want or is there something of real value to them?
g4ry13 said:
Lastly, in your honest opinion....they get us to cold call people, are we really just selling people something they don't want or is there something of real value to them?
Wait, what?You go to see a IFA, they don't call you out of the blue...
Sounds more like this to me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqDtf1aw818
Mr XXXX said:
g4ry13 said:
Lastly, in your honest opinion....they get us to cold call people, are we really just selling people something they don't want or is there something of real value to them?
Wait, what?You go to see a IFA, they don't call you out of the blue...
Sounds more like this to me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqDtf1aw818
Boiler room did cross my mind. When i'm training and legally unable to give people financial advice, they'll give me lists of people to call + anyone I know in my network. In first interview they said it was warm leads, but in second round they said i'd be cold calling. If I get someone to come in for the free consultation I will be renumerated for that. Once qualified, i'll be doing the calls + meeting people, signing them on as my clients etc. Does this scream "run away!" to you? From the sounds of it, it's glorified tele-sales with no basic with the potential to make a lot more.
g4ry13 said:
Boiler room did cross my mind. When i'm training and legally unable to give people financial advice, they'll give me lists of people to call + anyone I know in my network. In first interview they said it was warm leads, but in second round they said i'd be cold calling. If I get someone to come in for the free consultation I will be renumerated for that. Once qualified, i'll be doing the calls + meeting people, signing them on as my clients etc. Does this scream "run away!" to you? From the sounds of it, it's glorified tele-sales with no basic with the potential to make a lot more.
Fast.
Now.
g4ry13 said:
You think so? A company which gets new clients via cold calling is dodgy? I could say their name and maybe you might know something about them, but if so - I think i'd rather keep the name off the forum as I don't want to be too easily found.
Would you take Independent Financial Advice from somebody who has called you up out of the blue who knows that he isn't getting paid unless you take out one of his products?Mr XXXX said:
g4ry13 said:
You think so? A company which gets new clients via cold calling is dodgy? I could say their name and maybe you might know something about them, but if so - I think i'd rather keep the name off the forum as I don't want to be too easily found.
Would you take Independent Financial Advice from somebody who has called you up out of the blue who knows that he isn't getting paid unless you take out one of his products?
k off quite frankly. But that's just me. I understand it must be a bit of a hard sale because they're willing to give me £150 for every person I get to come in for a free consultation (who falls into the higher tax brackets they look for.) For £150 it doesn't sound like warm leads to me and a hell of a job to get people to take their time out of the day to listen to you and then actually go out of their way to turn up at the offices.This does not sound like a golden career opportunity to me, getting paid £150 to drag people in to be sold stuff. I would avoid it.
There was a plethora of these sort of companies around using similar tactics about 20 years ago (MI Group anybody?) and whilst I am sure the top sales people earnt a lot, I bet it was a tough slog for most. And it was very much all about the hard sell of pension/health insurance/life etc rather than any sort of consultative approach.
There was a plethora of these sort of companies around using similar tactics about 20 years ago (MI Group anybody?) and whilst I am sure the top sales people earnt a lot, I bet it was a tough slog for most. And it was very much all about the hard sell of pension/health insurance/life etc rather than any sort of consultative approach.
Edited by limpsfield on Saturday 26th November 15:21
Once qualified you make a lot more (but that's because you take them on as your client.) Although morally i'm not comfortable giving someone the hard sell and asking them to hand over thousands for something they don't really want. I know no-one really gets money for nothing, but I could very well see it turning out to be a tough grind with a good chance of seeing no reward to it. I've been having doubts whether i'm personally suited to it and starting to think at least in this capacity it's something I may not be comfortable with.
g4ry13 said:
I have heard some astonishing figures being thrown around about earnings potentials. I was told there are people working there earning £500k/yr and in my first year once qualified making £75k was very achievable.
Translation:Someone once earned £500K in a year before clawback (bet they didn't mention that).
One bloke somewhere once made £75K in his first year, he came from a related industry and had a significant advantage of a client base that no-one else has managed since.
I worked in the sector for 4 years until about 10 years ago, bleddy awful job. I obviously wasn't up to it in the long term, but I was like 80% of the people who did it, and that 80% had a high rate of turnover.
Yes, some can make it, I won't go into the kinds of "skills" you need to make it, but they are the tip of the iceberg and the great majority have a crap time and then get another job instead. I saw some people really brought low by it and have their self-belief challenged in ways that they really shouldn't be.
The worst people I encountered were recruiters. Managers who recruit were paid a bonus for every newcomer who was then trapped. I had to earn a certain amount of money before the training I recieved was written off, otherwise I had to pay the cost back. At the time of course you think "Yes I can do this!" in reality it prevents you from leaving a job you know you're not very good at.
There is one bloke I worked with who is still doing this, he was the only one I met in the whole business I ever had any respect for, the rest were wide-boys who would sell their own grandmothers if they could. The management was like David Brent on speed and very fond of "motivational" commentary, I always remember one bloke coming out with "Do you know it's been proven that 90% of the people who leave this business do it just before they were just about to be really successful" - proven? How exectly? Lies and damned lies.
Just my experience.
Thanks for the info.
What do you mean about clawback? I imagine in order to make that money you need to pay the desk fees. I couldn't get a number on that but I threw £2k/month out there and they told me it was more. I mentally put £5k on it, but after speaking to a friend of mine he reckons it could be more like £20k. The fee really depends on how many people they have paying the full desk fee because they take their fixed cost x and divide it by n. So more people paying = lower fees.
Through the recruitment process they've slowly been giving bits of info about the job. At first I thought it was salaried, it said nothing about self-employed in the ad or from the phone conversation we had. Then in first stage they told me they were all self-employed and there was no salary. I asked if they cold called and was told it was warm leads. In second round we discussed how I make money and the guy said they did in fact cold call. I have another round and maybe they'll mention I have to pay to train? There's 0 chance I give them a penny to train. I was speaking to a friend of mine and he thinks they're dodgy as hell and he'd pay for me to investigate it. But it's probably a very bad idea which I won't do
What do you mean about clawback? I imagine in order to make that money you need to pay the desk fees. I couldn't get a number on that but I threw £2k/month out there and they told me it was more. I mentally put £5k on it, but after speaking to a friend of mine he reckons it could be more like £20k. The fee really depends on how many people they have paying the full desk fee because they take their fixed cost x and divide it by n. So more people paying = lower fees.
Through the recruitment process they've slowly been giving bits of info about the job. At first I thought it was salaried, it said nothing about self-employed in the ad or from the phone conversation we had. Then in first stage they told me they were all self-employed and there was no salary. I asked if they cold called and was told it was warm leads. In second round we discussed how I make money and the guy said they did in fact cold call. I have another round and maybe they'll mention I have to pay to train? There's 0 chance I give them a penny to train. I was speaking to a friend of mine and he thinks they're dodgy as hell and he'd pay for me to investigate it. But it's probably a very bad idea which I won't do
When you sell a regular policy, you get paid upfront even though the company hasn't yet made that money, this is dependednt on the client continuing with the policy. For example, you sell me a pension paying £100 p.m. you may earn £1000 for doing this, the policy has an "initial period" of say 24 months. If I stick with it for 24 months, you're ok. If I jack it in after 6 months, you have to pay back £750 (clawback). Some policies are cancelled after the first month or two, you put all the work and effort in, even get paid, then you find you have to give your pay back as well as the time and effort being wasted (you're s/e remember). The initial period varies and isn't an issue with lump sum investments, it can be very painful finding that money you "earned" months ago has to be paid back.
As for training, you don't pay for it up front, you just have to work for a certain time or earn a certain amount before it's written off - you're s/e remember. I had this twice, the first time I was told it was a tax requirement (think I had to work 12 months before I was clear), the second I changed company (long story, little choice) and had to earn an amount in commission before they let me keep the "recruitment bonus" that I had of course long spent. The rules for this have doubtless changed a lot and even when I did it varied a lot from company to company.
Some people are undoubtedly successful at it, but they are few and far between and you need to have a particular personaility type. It also helps to not have dependents when you're starting out as you end up working when you need to work to earn.
As for training, you don't pay for it up front, you just have to work for a certain time or earn a certain amount before it's written off - you're s/e remember. I had this twice, the first time I was told it was a tax requirement (think I had to work 12 months before I was clear), the second I changed company (long story, little choice) and had to earn an amount in commission before they let me keep the "recruitment bonus" that I had of course long spent. The rules for this have doubtless changed a lot and even when I did it varied a lot from company to company.
Some people are undoubtedly successful at it, but they are few and far between and you need to have a particular personaility type. It also helps to not have dependents when you're starting out as you end up working when you need to work to earn.
Thanks for that. So effectively the financial adviser becomes the guarantor of the policy. So I guess if you have spent the money on something they'll come after it as you've got something in the contract. But what if you get really unlucky and 10 people pull out and you owe let's say £7.5k and don't just have that money to hand - what can they do?
I don't profess to being the stereotypical sales person, I don't enjoy the prospect of spending my day on a phone trying to sell people things - nor the idea that i'll be scamming. I'm surprised I have got this far with the recruitment process but maybe they're really just taking anyone on and seeing how well they do once in the job. I probably didn't do myself any favours by telling them in the interview that generally money tends to be a poor motivator for people through various studies that have taken place. I have no dependents so in that respect it's ok but it's possible somewhere down the line I would (if I hypothetically were to start the job.)
I don't profess to being the stereotypical sales person, I don't enjoy the prospect of spending my day on a phone trying to sell people things - nor the idea that i'll be scamming. I'm surprised I have got this far with the recruitment process but maybe they're really just taking anyone on and seeing how well they do once in the job. I probably didn't do myself any favours by telling them in the interview that generally money tends to be a poor motivator for people through various studies that have taken place. I have no dependents so in that respect it's ok but it's possible somewhere down the line I would (if I hypothetically were to start the job.)
limpsfield said:
I would forget all about this - its doesn't sound up your street at all
I think you are being blinded by the potential of a decent income - but as has been said, that's not the case for most.
I'm not being blinded by anything. Just trying to find out all the info before I make a decision. I'm very sceptical that the sums thrown around are as achievable as they claim.I think you are being blinded by the potential of a decent income - but as has been said, that's not the case for most.
g4ry13 said:
But what if you get really unlucky and 10 people pull out and you owe let's say £7.5k and don't just have that money to hand - what can they do?
You stay with them and earn it back, they keep on taking it back until you owe them nothing. If you leave in this time I guess they would chase you for money owed.g4ry13 said:
maybe they're really just taking anyone on and seeing how well they do once in the job
That's exactly what used to happen, sounds like it still does. Not just anyone to be fair, but the risk is far more yours than theirs, you are self employed and they will give you nothing but grief if you don't earn enough, it can have the worst aspects of being employed and being self-employed.It's very easy to get hooked in, you can always imagine making a lot of money from almost nowhere. I remember one afternoon going to a potential sale and securing £1800 in about 3 hours. The rest of that month I made £36.
I don't know you but I'd say don't do it, and then don't do it again for good measure.
g4ry13 said:
limpsfield said:
I would forget all about this - its doesn't sound up your street at all
I think you are being blinded by the potential of a decent income - but as has been said, that's not the case for most.
I'm not being blinded by anything. Just trying to find out all the info before I make a decision. I'm very sceptical that the sums thrown around are as achievable as they claim.I think you are being blinded by the potential of a decent income - but as has been said, that's not the case for most.
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